Hydaelyn Role-Players

Would it be possible for someone's "soul" (aether/life energy) to stick around and not have something like that happen? If the creation myth with Midgardsormr is to be believed, people's energy returns to the lifestream when properly sent off, and heads back to Silvertear to enter the aetherial realm, but, I'm just wondering if it's possible to retrieve someone's "soul" from the lifestream, or aetherial realm, intact, or alternatively, housing someone's life energy/soul/aether within something, as in forcing it into a containment item of some sort similar to how it would cling to items like gear and soulstones at the time of their death?

I mean, yes, there's the two options of "summoning" via the alchemical potion for the person to briefly come back, and then the other option, which is summoning them via aether and crystals, much like a Primal, or... exactly like a primal (but, iirc, the person who would be summoned wouldn't be able to stick around for very long without a near unlimited source of aether to keep their newly created body around, plus the fact that "they" wouldn't really be them but just an image of them based on the memories of whoever called them forth).

And, to ask further, is it possible to transfer someone's energy from an item, like aetherial gear or a soulstone, or some other such item the spirit has bonded to, back to a being or body?

Ehm. Did you do the MSQ of HW? It is... sort of explained there... but it seems really damn hard to get someone back, and I can't imagine every random hobo getting granted that chance, seeming the person in question was rather special. I would give a better answer, but I feel that is a question I needed to ask first!

I did, but I seem to be blanking on what... Or... Is this about Y'shtola?

(edit)
Sorry, I'm just trying to think. Y'shtola wasn't actually dead, though. Unless you're referring to Thordan maybe? But, with that, I thought it was similar to when Ysayle "summoned" Lady Shiva.

(01-31-2016, 07:21 PM)Mentaza Wrote: [ -> ]I did, but I seem to be blanking on what... Or... Is this about Y'shtola?

I think Virella's talking about Flow and how Y'shtola was effectly extract out of the Aetherstream. ...the thing about that is that the longer someone is in it, the more....dispersed their aether would get. So I wouldn't exactly try to extract the soul of someone who's been dead for a while.

In terms of aetherial gear, I remember the original explanation being that it was gear that was washed in someone's aether during death. There's an NPC quote somewhere, but I don't have it handy. That's why spiritbonding to make materia was described as "soul sweat" by another NPC.

In terms of soul stones, each is a little different in origin and how it works. I believe Sounsyy has a really good Soul Stone compilation post. ...somewhere.

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To not really answer anything, my main character, Franz, is -sorta- in that exact situation, where he was killed and had such a strong desire to live, he pulled what aether was necessary to construct a new body. In an almost-primal manner, he does impact the aether of the area he's in if certain conditions are met.

Y'shtola wasn't dead. She was trapped in the lifestream and running out of time before she dissolved into it (which would mean death). I don't think anyone has come back from that.

There's nothing I know of that makes storing a person's soul into an item -not possible.-

With that being said, manipulating souls in the Aetherstream seems to be reserved for very powerful beings like the Elementals, or White Mages working very closely with them.

We also see an uber experienced Alchemist dedicate years to bringing someone long since gone, and he's successful... briefly.

So with that said, I would say it's possible but... you'd need to adjust the power level of whoever is performing this to be on par or above those people I just mentioned. Near legendary power levels.

(01-31-2016, 07:30 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: [ -> ]To not really answer anything, my main character, Franz, is -sorta- in that exact situation, where he was killed and had such a strong desire to live, he pulled what aether was necessary to construct a new body. In an almost-primal manner, he does impact the aether of the area he's in if certain conditions are met.

This actually does help and give me some ideas.

(01-31-2016, 07:35 PM)Sin Wrote: [ -> ]There's nothing I know of that makes storing a person's soul into an item -not possible.-

With that being said, manipulating souls in the Aetherstream seems to be reserved for very powerful beings like the Elementals, or White Mages working very closely with them.

We also see an experienced Alchemist dedicates years to bringing someone long since gone, and he's successful... briefly.

So with that said, I would say it's possible but... you'd need to adjust the power level of whoever is performing this to be on par or above those people I just mentioned. Near legendary power levels.

Okay, so... Actually doing that would be so far outside of the realms of my character's capabilities, I'm going to look into an alternative way for this, which brings me to my next question.

Would it be possible for someone, upon death, to have their will be strong enough to actually bond with an item of their choosing and not just whatever is close by? I remember reading something Sounsyy wrote before:

However, the soul, if improperly buried (as in no funeral rites) will seek to remain in this realm. So it may attach itself to the nearest object it can find. This is how we get Aetherially Enhanced weapons, soulbinding, Soul Stones, etc. If it does not do this, it may wind up into a soulkin or revenant, Will-o'-the-Wisp, fireflies, etc. In proper funeral rites, the soul passes on into Thal's Realm (Heaven) where it will remain forever.*

EDIT: *Forever, unless, called upon in one of two instances! The 50 ALC quest wherein Severain discovers an alchemical potion to resummon the soul of a dead person. This requires very high quality potions of the essences of being as well as possessing an item the soul in question is bound to. The bound item, in the case of the 50 ALC quest is a wand, acts as a lodestone (much like an aetheryte) for the soul to return to.

The second method... is being summoned like a primal. Boom. Said it. With enough aether (crystals) to fully construct a new corporeal form, a soul might be recalled from Thal's Realm through fervent prayer and resummoned in a new body of aether. However, as the soul is not truly part of this realm, it cannot persist and maintain form unless it feeds on a constant supply of aether. Such was likely the same problem with why Severain was only able to recall his lost love for a few brief moments. His concoction worked, but the soul lacked the aether necessary to sustain itself in the physical plane.

The character/person in question who will have died isn't anyone of spectacular ability, but I'd guess if their will to "live" is enough, they could stick around (their body was not properly sent off or given funerary proceedings; more of an empty grave marker since their body was inaccessible) and possibly bond themselves to an item of some sort (possibly one of a loved one)? Or, would I be wrong in saying that?

We do have zombies! And some even speak!

(01-31-2016, 07:07 PM)Mentaza Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just wondering if it's possible to retrieve someone's "soul" from the lifestream, or aetherial realm, intact, or alternatively, housing someone's life energy/soul/aether within something, as in forcing it into a containment item of some sort similar to how it would cling to items like gear and soulstones at the time of their death?

Is it possible to bring someone back from the dead, Thal's Realm, the Aetherial Plane, etc... No. It is not been shown to successfully happen in the lore. A soul may return to this plane briefly, but once it has left, it can no longer linger here indefinitely. Furthermore, the longer a soul (living or dead) remains in the Lifestream it becomes less likely it will be able to return, as its aether will scatter and pass from the physical plane into the aetherial realm at the Seal in Silvertear Lake.

Urianger Wrote:If it be so, I do fear for our friend. Contrary to its name, the Lifestream is more akin to a raging torrent. Linger overlong in the midst of this maelstrom, and the aether that formeth one's soul shall surely be scattered, ne'er to be reformed.

Discounting primal summoning, which we now know is only the summoner's memory of a soul and not the soul itself, there are two examples of people attempting to restore the life to a dead person that immediately spring to mind, Severian and Edda.

Severian dedicates five years to alchemical studies in order to restore his love, W'nahja, from the aetherial plane. He is, momentarily successful, however the returned soul had no aether to consume to linger in our plane long, and dispersed back to the Lifestream almost as soon as it appeared. Severian required several potions he called "Essences of Being" as well as a close keepsake of W'nahja's which her soul was attuned to to use as a lodestone to guide her soul back to her body.

Severian Wrote:My understanding of the process was incomplete. Simply reviving W'nahja's corporeal form was insufficient. In order to call her spirit and bind it to her body, I need an anchor of sorts. Some manner of memento that she would recognize. But I have no such physical memories; no material object that she might have treasured.

Edda, on the other hand, is a bit complicated. Her lover Avere's head was not properly buried/cremated, and as such, was fair game for a Voidsent creature to use as a gateway between our world and theirs. Her misguided attempts at restoring Avere to life and transferring him to a new host were impossible because what was animating Avere was a voidsent, not actually Avere.

Liavinne Wrote:Oh, and by way of parting advice... get rid of Avere's head! Bury it, cremate it, do whatever the hells you like with it - but for gods' sakes, stop carrying it around! It's... It's just... Just get rid of it alright!?

Damielliot Wrote:The cost of not burying the deceased is far greater than the cost of burying them. Those not properly returned to Hydaelyn are damned to spend an eternity wandering the wastes!

The deceased appear to be a favorite portal for opportunistic voidsent...

Minute Mindflayer Wrote:Similar to voidsent dullahan, mindflayers also lack a corporeal form and must possess a host to be able to exert force on our realm. Whereas the dullahan, however, are limited to the possession of inorganic objects such as steel, mindflayers tend to prefer the dead as their vessels.

Succubus Triple Triad Card Wrote:Succubi manifest on the physical plane by forcing their souls into the bodies of deceased women. Once the transition is complete, the resultant creature is said to be both fair and fey to look upon. Still more disconcerting, researchers claim that these voidsent occasionally exhibit the personality traits of their deceased hosts. Succubi occupy the third and fourth rungs of the voidsent hierarchy.

Now, onto the topic of souls clinging to items, such as Soulstones and Aetherial equipment:

Garratt Wrote:No, this sword is mine, and if you want it, you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands! Which, in truth, is how aetherial gear comes to be. You've heard of spiritbonds, I assume? That spiritually charged aetherial connection you form with any gear you have equipped? Well, in rare cases, when someone wielding an item with an especially strong spiritbond is slain in battle, the energy created by that bond remains trapped inside, rather than returning to the Lifestream.

The fact that for an item to become aetherial, the owner of that item must perish while having it equipped, usually means that they can only be found in dangerous locations where terrible, bloody battles have occurred.

Soulstone lore can be found in this thread. Which segues us perfectly into...


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(01-31-2016, 07:07 PM)Mentaza Wrote: [ -> ]And, to ask further, is it possible to transfer someone's energy from an item, like aetherial gear or a soulstone, or some other such item the spirit has bonded to, back to a being or body?

Again, this has never been shown in lore. Scratch that, it's been shown once in lore, but the methodology is incredibly spotty... Final Coil Spoilers ahead:

The primal soul of Bahamut clings to the Allagan Coils after Louisoix defeats him at Carteneau. His body is shattered, but Bahamut clings to life and gathers all of the ambient aether floating around Phoenix and uses it to stave off death. He then uses the still-active coils of Dalamud to reanimate his body. However, there's not enough aether to fully reconstruct a corporeal form, so he has to steadily draw aether from the planet to form a new body.

So, we have not seen an example of a person being able to pull aether from a soulstone to reform a previous owner. We have seen the spirit/soul of A-Towa-Cant speak from his soulstone, but he is still just an ephemeral ghost and quickly disperses back to the Lifestream.

A-Ruhn-Senna Wrote:Master A-Towa. Do you truly... live?

A-Towa-Cant Wrote:Live...? Not as you would define the word. Mayhap in the heart of Sounsyy here, whose strength I borrowed to join you.

My spirit left my lifeless body to abide in this soul crystal, with the hope that one day it would find its way into the hands of my successor.

The power of the crystal grows faint... It would seem my all-too-brief sojourn here has come to an end.

EDIT: Just remembered another instance, though, slightly different in that it was transferring a soul from one item to another item, not from an item to an animate being. Zodiac weapon. After fully melding, affixing, spiritbonding, and dungeoning with your first relic, you must transfer your weapon into a new body to create the Zodiac arm. To do this, Mutamix breaks down the fully soulglazed weapon into a single materia which housed the soul of your relic and then affixed that materia to the new host.

Gerolt Wrote:Break out yer strongest liquor, old man! There is a way to recreate an arm o' legend. See, the relic's got the right bleedin' soul energy. We jus' need to get that to ascend to a legendary host!

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(01-31-2016, 07:48 PM)Mentaza Wrote: [ -> ]Would it be possible for someone, upon death, to have their will be strong enough to actually bond with an item of their choosing and not just whatever is close by?

The character/person in question who will have died isn't anyone of spectacular ability, but I'd guess if their will to "live" is enough, they could stick around (their body was not properly sent off or given funerary proceedings; more of an empty grave marker since their body was inaccessible) and possibly bond themselves to an item of some sort (possibly one of a loved one)? Or, would I be wrong in saying that?

Based on Severian's earlier explanation of aetherial anchors and Garratt's explanation of spiritbonding, I'd have to go with no. The soul will cling to an item they are closely attached to, one that is on them when their aether disperses upon death. Similar to how when a primal dies, its tainted aether washes over those around it and only those present can resummon that primal aether into egi form. A-Towa-Cant chose to live on in the soulstone he carried, for example.

Now, what happens when a person dies who does not have a strong spiritbind with a keepsake or soulstone, but whose soul still refuses to depart? This is how we get what are known in Eorzea as the Ashkin, or undead. There are three types of Ashkin: Fomors, Wights, and Revenants.

Revenant Wrote:Sometimes, people are unaware when the end knocks, and their souls miss the opportunity to journey back into the Lifestream. These wretched creatures are known as revenants, and they need your help in realizing there is no place for them in this realm.

Fomor Wrote:These raging revenants are bodies long dead animated by dark magicks. They retain the combat skills they had in life, as well as boasting unholy strength.

Wight Wrote:Risen from the grave by some unholy magic, these skeletons roam the dark places of Eorzea with a hatred untold of all of the five races.

According to Hildibrand lore, Hab the friendly zombie, as well as a few other references, we know that Fomors (zombies) retain some of their mental capacity even after death. The soul actually lingers on in the body in a semi-sentient manner, which separates Fomors from Revenants and Wights - Revenants being souls who are unaware to their predicament and Wights being just an animated skeletal frame held together by magic with seemingly no sentience or awareness.

Hab Wrote:How nice it must be to have a family! Mine's long dead─dead dead, not undead like me. Still, just knowing that I have friends in this vast, lonely world is enough for me. Why, I suppose I can even call you a friend, too! You don't mind my odor, do you?

All this said, what you're trying to do sounds like it'd be an interesting story, and if you want to do it, go for it! There's not lore that directly refutes its possibility, just that all attempts made thus far in the canon have been unsuccessful as demonstrated above. Anyways, I hope this has helped some! ^^ And lemme know if you have more questions!

Thank you for the replies, everyone!

I think I'm going to tweak around what I want to do a bit, but this all has given me some ideas, but I do have one last question.

If someone were to bond with an item, say... a piece of jewelry they were wearing at the time of their death (bonding ceremony ring) and the item were to be recovered, would someone be able to tell that it's been spiritbonded with? I assume it would require some amount of magic inclination to sense the aether held within it, if it's possible.

(01-31-2016, 11:05 PM)Mentaza Wrote: [ -> ]If someone were to bond with an item, say... a piece of jewelry they were wearing at the time of their death (bonding ceremony ring) and the item were to be recovered, would someone be able to tell that it's been spiritbonded with? I assume it would require some amount of magic inclination to sense the aether held within it, if it's possible.

Yes, like how we can feel a soul or memory resonating within a soulstone, aetherial items or spiritbonded keepsakes have a glow or palpable feel to them - even to those who are not magically inclined. Though, someone who was more sensitive to the flow of aether might have a more definite sensation.

Here's Garratt, a gladiator sellsword, describing his aetherial item:

Garratt Wrote:Just look at this beauty. See how she glows. You can almost feel the power running through her.

Also, from Severian:

Severian Wrote:Do you mind if W'bulea has the wand? Though a poor substitute for her sister's body, it has been touched by W'nahja's spirit.

Not sure how lore compliant it is, but I've seen it played where a soul is trapped in a phylactery before it can dissipate and held temporarily for a more opportune resurrection.

Sadly I haven't seen anything in this thread that will justify resurrecting Ms Mcbeef. 

If you are unconscious during a teleport, can you still be guided to an aetheryte? A bit of a side question, but we are talking about souls and bodies and such. I assumed it would be a Y'shtola situation where you get lost in the aether.

Again, thank you for the replies. I've got a much more solid idea of what I'm going to do now.

(02-01-2016, 02:21 PM)McBeef© Wrote: [ -> ]If you are unconscious during a teleport, can you still be guided to an aetheryte? A bit of a side question, but we are talking about souls and bodies and such. I assumed it would be a Y'shtola situation where you get lost in the aether.

Yes, according to teleport lore.

Nicia Wrote:Normally, when one's body is reduced to aether, it will naturally gravitate to the location with which it resonates the greatest - or one's "home point." This is why upon losing consciousness in battle, many wake to find themselves back at an aetheryte. In other words, aetheryte act as lodestones, assuring that the body, in its aetherial form, is not lost to the pull of the greater flow. And, because signatures of past attunements are maintained within our bodies, it is possible (with some spiritual training, of course) to ignore the pull back to the strongest resonation, and travel to another beacon. Many refer to this as "Teleportation."