Hydaelyn Role-Players

Yes, you may have quit JUST BEFORE, or even during the time I'm talking about. I RP'd on Moon Guard primarily during WOTLK, so I am surprised you never heard of Eldanesh (who I might add, was generally disliked, but still recognized as the dude who killed Kel'Thuzad.)

I both loved and hated the council. I thought it was really cool that the player base was able to establish a player-run government of sorts, which MANY players did abide by. I am very green leaf when it comes to the current FFXIV community, but I don't believe we have many players like that, do we? And by that I mean, players who are generally regarded as having certain roles of power or governance?

(09-21-2016, 03:13 PM)Renault Delumiere Wrote: [ -> ]I am very green leaf when it comes to the current FFXIV community, but I don't believe we have many players like that, do we? And by that I mean, players who are generally regarded as having certain roles of power or governance?

Not that I've seen. You're basically king of your own domain here. The RPC itself is only a small sliver of all the RPers on Balmung. There's no group nearly big enough or respected enough to have those sorts of positions.

Instead, you're all basically telling your own stories and they interact and interweave with the people you choose to RP with. There's no grand overarching plot that is being policed by any one person or persons. So, you could have eight different people claiming to be THE Warrior of Light, and it's up to you to decide which one - if any - is the canon one in your own story.

(09-21-2016, 03:06 PM)Kilieit Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly still just think it's arrogant to assume yourself more suited to playing a certain role because of something you did that's completely unrelated to your skill as a roleplayer.

T13 world first doesn't magically make you amazing at roleplaying a war hero. And if you're spending so much time putting effort and practice into world-first-style raiding, then the time spent roleplaying is necessarily lesser than someone who spends the majority of their game-time on it.

Here's a hypothetical something I'd respect more:

A person takes the time and effort to assemble a group of adventurers who might have the in-character skill to enter the Binding Coil and investigate the recent disturbances. Over the next few weeks, they do regular RP sessions covering their adventures into the Coils, filming video or posting stories about them for others to share in. They take care to ensure the story is well-crafted and compelling, and that it has a personal spin on it to differentiate it from what the developers provided for them, while still remaining true to the heart of the original storyline. After a lot of in-character, on-screen time and effort, they finally arrive at their destination, and although some of their members faulter once or twice, they eventually pull through as a group and emerge victorious.

Man, if I'd seen something like that documented on the forums and one of the people approached me in-game, I'd totally roll with it - because I'd admire their creativity and dedication to roleplay. Far moreso than someone trying to use out-of-character achievements to influence in-character events.

I want to agree with you to an extent, I really, really do. I think it would be incredible to see high-level content RP'd out and documented. That would be some very interesting story telling.

However...It is my personal opinion that a group of adventurers going back and going over these hurdles when the content is easy and the story old (as is the case of Coil), would have less credibility to claim their feat than the writer who claims the same, and HE was the first to tackle the challenge, back during it's relevancy.

I'm probably going to be repeating what everyone else has said. I played back on WoW too, on Moon Guard and Wyrmrest Accord. I played a level 85 mage (back when Cataclysm was current content) as a mage apprentice, I also played a level 50 warrior... who is now level 91 as a red dragonsworn. She was a low level character, but I still played her off as someone who was really strong. 

I mean yes, getting a world first achievement is pretty fucking awesome. I find it impressive when I find someone that's actually good at a MMO I'm playing, because I suck at them myself xD. But I just don't think that matters in roleplay. Roleplay is about being creative and to be able to play whatever kind of character you want as long as they fit properly into the world. I honestly don't find someone who has a world first achievement more valid than a level 10. If something were to make a character more believable, it would be the player's writing. 

If you'd like to play a character based on their achievements, then go ahead! But if a level 30 wants to do the same thing, then they should. ICly, I would treat both characters the same.

(09-21-2016, 03:13 PM)Renault Delumiere Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, you may have quit JUST BEFORE, or even during the time I'm talking about. I RP'd on Moon Guard primarily during WOTLK, so I am surprised you never heard of Eldanesh (who I might add, was generally disliked, but still recognized as the dude who killed Kel'Thuzad.)

I both loved and hated the council. I thought it was really cool that the player base was able to establish a player-run government of sorts, which MANY players did abide by. I am very green leaf when it comes to the current FFXIV community, but I don't believe we have many players like that, do we? And by that I mean, players who are generally regarded as having certain roles of power or governance?

There are no IC governments or anything like that. The Council was.. decent. It was fun. I wasn't directly a part of it so much as I RPed a character that doubled as a bodyguard/assassin for Dreyfus and kind of gathered information to give to the Council. I was a Night Elf rogue   It was a lot of fun!

Here, most people seem pretty laid back. I don't think anyone really does the achievement stuff. People do bend the lore, but usually within the purview of what has already been established. No one has any sayso/governing role over others, and I am admittedly surprised to not see some sort of FC/guild based on the Flames or whatever law force to patrol the streets. Almost every MMO I've RPed in has something to the equivalent of that.

If I may add some clarification to my last post, I want to add something from my own RP as an example.

I like to joke and imply that Chachanji and Gogonji's father - Zozonji Gegenji - has a business deal with Rowena brokered between her and his wife. The result was that all the Doman-inspired tome gear (the Asuran stuff), in my head canon, was being churned out by the head of the Gegenji family to be snatched up by adventurers who were really into Doman fashion after the mass immigration caused by the razing. It was amusing to me (and I suppose a minor plot point) that Chachan's father was churning out these - at the time - incredibly powerful gear like it was nothing. A hinting to how skilled the Gegenjis were at their craft.

Does that make it the case for anyone else? Nah, but I like the idea in my story and people are free to decide whether or not that's the case for them - and I make a point of not really mentioning it unless said people want to include it into their RP. Otherwise I just leave it a vague point that Chachan's parents and Rowena have a business deal.

Meanwhile, while I do have Chachan as a 60 BSM and ARM, I did that mostly for the outfits. And if I were to truly match what you were suggesting, would that mean I would have to grind out making hundreds of smithing items for the achievements and titles connected to them? Or do all the turn-ins so I could have all the recipe books? And keep on the loot treadmill to keep all my crafting gear at tip-top level and melded perfectly?

How much OOC proof would I have to provide that Chachan's a good smith in this situation? Not asking any of this out of any malice, of course. I'm just curious as to what sort of baseline would need to be set in this kind of situation. Because that seems like an awful lot of extra work to do for joint story-telling, and time that I - as someone who works a full time job - honestly couldn't see myself doing.

I'm probably going to echo what has already been said, but as I see it, it depends on what sort of roleplayer you are and how far you take your IC-ness. There's people who for example will always be IC, no matter what they're doing in game, and in that sort of context I can easily see how achievements add something to your claim of ability on a character. It's not at all uncommon to run into people who completely separate game mechanics from the roleplay as well, I for example wouldn't take an achievement as something that gives more credibility - I also don't factor in levels, what class or job you're playing as, etc. For me, I value how much a person roleplays on their abilities, how long they've done it for (to some extend and in certain contexts) and how everything is balanced. I'm also one that appreciates skill/power to be gained or improved upon through RP. Writing a background story that starts off your character as a super awesome hero isn't as interesting as starting off with some plotlines that might land your character at hero status eventually. 
Balmung is rather big, so I'm not at all doubting that you'll find people from all sorts of standpoints. If you're trying to evaluate what is the right thing to do, then I reckon it's a very individual thing - but when you look for groups/guilds to play with, you could ask how stuff adds up for them so you can take measures to avoid style-conflicts. 

That's my two gil.

(09-21-2016, 03:19 PM)Renault Delumiere Wrote: [ -> ]I want to agree with you to an extent, I really, really do. I think it would be incredible to see high-level content RP'd out and documented. That would be some very interesting story telling.

However...It is my personal opinion that a group of adventurers going back and going over these hurdles when the content is easy and the story old (as is the case of Coil), would have less credibility to claim their feat than the writer who claims the same, and HE was the first to tackle the challenge, back during it's relevancy.

I'd rather lend credence to people who are dedicated to telling a good story than to people who happened to be in the right place at the right time and to have a solid raid group, 2 years ago, before I even played the game myself.

Basically.

I do not value raid progress, for any purpose. Not for me, not for others. I don't see it as something that's important or that should be specially respected. I don't find it enjoyable. I don't admire those who do it. It's just a difference in preference, and they're not "more worthy" of admiration just because what they pour their time and effort into happens to yield in-game achievements. IMO, they shouldn't be able to "transfer" stuff they did that gets them good reputation in the raiding community to get the same ego-stroking in the RP community as well.

I roleplay. I do so, in part, because I value roleplay. I value creativity and work and time and effort poured into bringing a character concept to life.

People trying to bring non-roleplay-related stuff into it comes across as grasping at straws because they're insecure in what they're trying to portray.

IMO, if you have to reach to something outside the scene and go "no, really, look, you HAVE to go along with what I'm RPing, because I did this thing that's totally unrelated to anything to do with RP", you've already lost my attention.

If you're RPing it with skill, finesse, and humility, then the question of whether you're "for legit" shouldn't even have to come up.

I'm aware I'm being quite harsh here, and it's because I had bad experiences with thoroughly arrogant, unpleasant people in the WoW community who thought that being realm-first raiders on a really tiny realm with no PvE community meant that the RPers hanging around should be kneeling at their feet. If someone wants to RP a character who others kneel at the feet of, I'd rather they build that gravitas through roleplay.

(09-21-2016, 03:28 PM)Gegenji Wrote: [ -> ]How much OOC proof would I have to provide that Chachan's a good smith in this situation? 

To me, it is not about proving your skill in terms of your character's story or self-perceived achievements, but rather how you size up to other players claiming that they are the same, or better.

If a player claims that their character is a better smith than yours, has specialists in each profession, leveled to maximum, with fully melded gear, and all of the achievements, would you not be more inclined to humor that claim than if they were a level 1 crafter?

I would never say that going that extra mile is necessary to RP something, but it certainly does, in my eyes, make the story more believable.

Someone who tries to claim that they are a better of anything than you is an asshole. That's kind of like if you were playing basketball, and some guy came up to you and was like. "Hey.. I'm better at you than this." or if you're healing in a dungeon and someone says 'I'm better at you than this.' wouldn't you consider them sort of an asshole? If a character thinks that they could assist another character because they think they're better at a certain craft or activity, wouldn't they give constructive criticism on their work over saying. 'Hey I'm better than you at this.' Especially if the only proof that they have is their OOC achievements. I mean, if a character can explain why they are better through IC achievemetns, okay awesome.. but why would a character try to argue that anyways, unless the character is a total douche.

(09-21-2016, 03:37 PM)Renault Delumiere Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2016, 03:28 PM)Gegenji Wrote: [ -> ]How much OOC proof would I have to provide that Chachan's a good smith in this situation? 

To me, it is not about proving your skill in terms of your character's story or self-perceived achievements, but rather how you size up to other players claiming that they are the same, or better.

If a player claims that their character is a better smith than yours, has specialists in each profession, leveled to maximum, with fully melded gear, and all of the achievements, would you not be more inclined to humor that claim than if they were a level 1 crafter?

I would never say that going that extra mile is necessary to RP something, but it certainly does, in my eyes, make the story more believable.

To be absolutely honest, if I knew they leveled the profession because of their character concept I'd respect it more than just the fact that they did it. Though, to be fair, that's kinda part of why I leveled BSM/ARM/LTW all to 60. However, I don't feel like everyone else would need to do that. That's just my personal preference (and I liked the idea of making some gear for people and having them wearing stuff that had Chachan's name on it).

And to imply that their character was better just because they got all the crafting gear and over-melded the whole set would strike me as rude. If, instead, they RPed themselves as someone who had been smithing for as long or longer than Chachan, who showed their character was an experienced smith instead of just telling me and pointing at a number and a gear set for their reasoning... then I'd be more likely to roll with it.

I come from Eve Online where actions and deeds are supposed to speak louder than words so... yes, to an extent for me. I have no problem at all acknowledging that someone with a character with high pvp rankings and spending a good amount of time here OOC can transform that easily into an IC thing. They worked their asses to get there. Same for a trading mogul on the market, even if it's harder to prove besides the depth of your pockets...

That works for me as long as it doesn't directly conflicts with the lore or the storyline, and makes sense. Falling a raid thing, like Alexander, or whatever, is a Warrior of Light thing. Claiming having done so, even with your first server achievment or whatever, is a no go to me and just reeks of special snowflake. 

More generally though, if it doesn't contradict the lore, it always, always boils down as how you portray your character. I'm fine with a 50y old experienced and grizzled warrior with badass skills that will be played accordingly (and 3 dimensionally), but less with a teen pulling the same shit. Same with a trading mogul, or whatever, really. As usual, pull it well in 3 dimensions and you got it. If you can't, then your OOC achievements mean literally naugh.

Now don't get me wrong. I spit on eve online mindset that tends to go to the extreme opposite though, which is as long as you don't do much ingame, you are nothing. That's lame.

So the only time I've ever done that, was back when EX primals dropped, I was one of the early ones to kill all three and get a cool sword.
I wore the sword ICly, and if anyone asked my character said they helped kill Titan after the beast tribes summoned him.

If someone said 'no you didn't' whatever that's cool. However I had the sword (which was rare at the time). 

I think the whole OOC/IC achievement thing is, use it to add flair to your RP. If your character is supposed to be filthy rich, owning the latest expensive cosmetic gear is a good way to show that. If they're supposed to be a great warrior, having rare weapons or armor helps.

However it's only for flair, like, you can't demand people treat you a certain way because you do those things. You can't be like "LOOK AT HOW MUCH GIL I AM, ADMIT MY RICH LALA IS RICHER THAN YOUR RICH LALA" 

tldr: Use ooc achievements to add flavor and weight to the concept you're RPing, but don't use it as a certificate of authenticity.

I mean, if people are gonna think about using the upcoming dueling feature for RP fights then you'd kind of would hope you're good at PvP.

Otherwise.... Lol you're gonna have a baaaad time outside of just text.

I have met and played with RPers who use this approach but suffice to say, their RP is what led me to treat them as accomplished, and it just coincidentally gelled with their interests in game. Though it's on another character, I would actually find it confusing and a bit restrictive if Virara was stapled to my achievements. She's not so strong that my time in Savage Alex and completion of Coil should be considered canon in terms of what she can do and I'd be put off if people decided that for me based upon my Lodestone or w/e.