Hydaelyn Role-Players

(11-14-2016, 03:33 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]That's kind of the problem we've face before. We've tried to ask the 'cliques' to include other people or make it more available to outsiders but the request has mostly fallen on deaf ears.

See, I would give these guys a warning and set an example of the behavior that is expected by starting some open RP and inviting others via FC chat etc.

If they kept behaving this way I would remove them, not because of 'cliques' but just because....douchebags. Who WANTS to alienate people in RP? Doesn't that defeat the point of RP?

(11-14-2016, 03:19 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for all the advice everyone. It's certainly give me a lot to mule over. I'll address some points below.

Officers
We actually did originally start with different branches as officers with medical, airships, field, etc etc. The problem is that it ran into problems with ooc and ic and the lack of definition for the officer role. Currently, we've just made a singular officer role for ooc purposes and the person can simply put 'head medic' in their tag for ic purposes rather than making a bunch of different officer roles. I'd like to ask, what do people usually ask for their officers? What would be too little to ask and what would be too much?

Already some great answers in this thread, but I will chip in on some of the questions you have raised that haven't really been touched upon. (Just a note, I've been an Officer in previous FCs, and I've been running my own for several months now!)

Officer Roles: Mentioned previously in the thread, I pick my officers by what I'm shown. All of my officers have been independent, initiated roleplay, helped others in dungeon runs and/or roleplay issues just of their own accord. Once I got to know them proper, and vetted them for any possible drama etc, they're good to go! 

But what do they do exactly? My Officers are an extension of me. They read new applications and give me their insight, they propose new storylines and plan them into our FC schedule accordingly. They are friendly, approachable and are open to others coming to them for help. If I'm not online and there's an issue, I trust and expect them to bring it up to me in our many OOC chats so it can be sorted out ASAP. In terms of what work to give them, if someone is good at networking and getting to know people, have them recruit! If they love DMing? Have them be in charge of the FC storylines! Ask them if they are interested in such a role, and be sure to list their responsibilities to them so they can make a decision.

But everyone has a real life, with work, school, kids, etc. So don't be surprised that you might need to give them a gentle nudge to check out a new app or think about the next storyline. I think sparing at least 5 minutes a day to just catch up on what's going on and discuss/plan officer things goes a long way. Think of officers like your babysitters. You look after the kid (the FC) 24/7, but there are times when you just need a weekend off (plan an event for me! Interview this person! etc) and they can step in and take on that role for a few hours.  I do most of the FC work in terms of managing the website, recruiting, etc... partly because I'm a masochist and mostly because FC Leaders are the core of their FC. Nobody isn't going to bother keeping a room tidy if it wasn't in the first place, you know? 

Rambled a little bit and haven't even gone into the other issues, but everyone here has got it covered by the looks! FCs are always a work in progress and never perfect. But I hope this thread will help in giving you motivation to work on yours so it's something you're happy with.

Again thanks everyone for the continued advice!  Right now, I think my main priority needs to be working on stopping the bleeding of members. They cite that it feels like the same thing every day, sitting at the fc etc, etc. I'd like to ask the more long-lived FCs how they kept their fc rp fresh and got the members to go out more while still interacting with each other. We do have weekly events (2 a week currently) but it seems that it isn't enough because the rest of the time is still the same lounging around.

(11-14-2016, 09:19 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]Again thanks everyone for the continued advice!  Right now, I think my main priority needs to be working on stopping the bleeding of members. They cite that it feels like the same thing every day, sitting at the fc etc, etc. I'd like to ask the more long-lived FCs how they kept their fc rp fresh and got the members to go out more while still interacting with each other. We do have weekly events (2 a week currently) but it seems that it isn't enough because the rest of the time is still the same lounging around.

I think a variety of events is key. The FC I previously led for a couple years had a weekly IC meeting with a more casual dinner afterward, a weekly tavern night that was open to the whole server which allowed our members to meet others outside the FC and earned some visibility for our FC, we had holiday events both private and server wide, we had a few fighting tournaments (once again, some private and some public), we had a weekly teatime for a while and then a weekly sparring night, FC storyline events (some more combat heavy, some more investigation heavy), etc. Our company was also split into "branches" which sometimes had their own events and IC meetings.

It's also great to encourage your FC members to run their own events and help them out with that. It gives them something fun to do, and it alleviates some of the burden to generate content from you and your officers. We had members running events for their personal storylines, we had characters teaching first aid classes to FC mates, hosting slumber parties, and all sorts of things. OOC events can be fun, too. You can set aside one night a week to help FC members progress in PvE, or do PotD, or do treasure maps, or you can do stuff outside of game like an Overwatch night, or Cards Against Humanity, or drinking and Discord or... well, whatever it is your FC members like doing.

However, you and your FC members will get burnt out pretty quickly if you start trying to cram too many events into your schedule. It sounds like you could really benefit from some more unscheduled RP time. The best way to do this is to find some free time when folks are online, pick a place in game to plop your character down, and encourage all your available FC members to come RP. It doesn't need to be anything planned, just a night of drinking in a tavern, or hunting in the woods, or beating up some beastmen or whatever you want to do.

(11-14-2016, 09:19 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]Again thanks everyone for the continued advice!  Right now, I think my main priority needs to be working on stopping the bleeding of members. They cite that it feels like the same thing every day, sitting at the fc etc, etc. I'd like to ask the more long-lived FCs how they kept their fc rp fresh and got the members to go out more while still interacting with each other. We do have weekly events (2 a week currently) but it seems that it isn't enough because the rest of the time is still the same lounging around.

This is a recurring issue in most roleplaying groups, but it isn't what you think. When members say they're feeling bored of the daily slice-of-life RP, that isn't your problem as the FC leader. In as much as it's good for you to give players something to do, it's also not your responsibility to be their source of entertainment. You're all there to all entertain each other. Literally nothing stops any player from beginning their own ongoing plot, brief mini-plot, or one-shot event. The right thing to ask the one who's claiming boredom is, "What ideas do you have for something you'd like to host which will change things up?"

If their answer can be summed up as "I don't have an idea, I'm expecting you to do that", then you may be better off with their choice to leave the FC. An FC can survive and thrive with some players being "takers", but if the majority you get are that way, you're dooming yourself to exhausted burnout trying to be a full-time "giver". You'll never have time or energy for your own non-plot RP, and, worse, you'll probably endure "what have you done for me lately" comments. Subtly, not usually as blatant as that, but as soon as you go a few days without giving your "takers" their fix, they'll start complaining again - and if you've consistently entertained for months and take a step back from it for a couple weeks, you'll hear of the whiniest ones saying that the FC is changing, it's falling apart, it's "dead", etc.

The short version of all this is: don't be afraid to let people leave. If a player is on board with your general FC concept and if they like the RP, then they might feel inclined to participate in "making" rather than only "taking". If not, and they want to move on, then... off they go, and they get to be somebody else's creativity leech instead of yours.

The first and foremost advice I give to any kind of group leader:  Lead by example.  If you want your members doing things a certain way and acting a certain way, then you need to embody that for yourself first.  Don't have any expectation for your members that you are not first prepared to expect of yourself (and your officers.)

"We want to RP more outside the FC."

Start roleplaying with others, coordinating with other Free Companies, or actively looking for other things that folks are offering to participate in.  As nice as FC houses are make it a point to get OFF that little square of property and out into the world where people can see and encounter you and your people.

"We want to be less cliquish."

Make an effort to roleplay with others outside your usual circle, participate in things other people have up for grabs.  Chime in on conversations, forum threads, or idea/event planning beyond your usual social circle.  A group is only as inclusive/exclusive as it makes itself.

"We want more Storylines."

Make something small at first, see how that goes.  Build on it, let other people contribute to it, add on some more, until it becomes something bigger.  Good storylines don't just appear out of thin air, it's often built on several smaller encounters that lead up to something larger.

Be the changes you want to see reflected in your Free Company.  If the leader of the group isn't willing to put in the work to make the place great, then why would you ever have that expectation of your members?

(11-14-2016, 03:19 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]Officers
We actually did originally start with different branches as officers with medical, airships, field, etc etc. The problem is that it ran into problems with ooc and ic and the lack of definition for the officer role. Currently, we've just made a singular officer role for ooc purposes and the person can simply put 'head medic' in their tag for ic purposes rather than making a bunch of different officer roles. I'd like to ask, what do people usually ask for their officers? What would be too little to ask and what would be too much?

Officers OOC don't have to match whatever hierarchical positions characters have IC. OOC officers should always be nominated over their managing, creative abilities as well as their involvement and maturity or whatever you ask them to be.

(11-14-2016, 03:19 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]Cliques
I have 0 problem with people wanting to rp with their friends and close ones. I do it myself. But there's certain people that show up to no events, have 0 interaction with anyone else even when something is happening in front of them, and basically only exist in the company by name. I've even asked them before (because some of them were actually officers) to try and include company members in their plot lines and they agreed, but here we are and no progress has been made and they still are content in mingling among themselves. This isn't really that much of a problem anymore as it's a very small portion of the company but it still bothers me.

Then I think purges are in order. Just don't do it like a tyran. The problem is, the more you wait, the more it will be difficult to get rid of something that took root in your FC. From what you say, it already kind of has, so don't take too much time to address the problem. It will only get worse as a result. That kind of players tend to poison everything by leading a very negative example, and it's very contagious, even if healthy members don't want to. If you have people that set that kind of atmosphere, it tends to spoil everything for everyone.

(11-14-2016, 03:19 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]Plotlines
I will admit that I'm a complete newbie when it comes to running a FC story line. I'd take any advice I can on this. Like how to get people interested and creating a rp hook (and learning just exactly what a 'hook' entails).

I think it's more a problem of being a GM overall. Tabletop experience can greatly help, but that's something you have to learn, also by yourself. See what works and what doesn't. Take part in plots run by others, and see what worked and what failed.

---

I think though what differentiates a FC living some kind of bliss and a standard FC is if their baseline members are active or passive, or in between.

Passive means, just spoon fed by officers and leaders in terms of RP and plots. That is... not great because if officer activity fluctuates (it always happens at some point or another), then those members will suddenly be left without all their usual activities and will complain. Those are also often pretty much the kind of RPers that show up to events and still remain passive, or RP in their corner, or just RP when the spotlight is on them, meaning, they are nor proactive RPers.

In between means, they are basically the same, they don't create much and their own events, but at least when RP is happening, they are involved and proactive.

Active means that they basically run their own plots and bring a lot to the FC by themselves.

Very few FCs are full of active players. Most of them tend to rely on their officers, and that's a shame. Motivate people to run their own thing. Show them support whenever one of them tries to, because when everyone suddenly turns active, RP suddenly happens all the time and it creates a synergy where people just have fun, and want even more. It's a virtuous circle.

(11-14-2016, 09:19 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]Again thanks everyone for the continued advice!  Right now, I think my main priority needs to be working on stopping the bleeding of members. They cite that it feels like the same thing every day, sitting at the fc etc, etc. I'd like to ask the more long-lived FCs how they kept their fc rp fresh and got the members to go out more while still interacting with each other. We do have weekly events (2 a week currently) but it seems that it isn't enough because the rest of the time is still the same lounging around.

Two events a week seems plenty to me, I don't know about others. Heck, my FC only runs an event once a week for 2-4 hours at a time (although this due to the fact most of our members work full-time and only really have weekends to spare). As Faye and others have said, variety is important. We jump from combat events, to investigations to just plain ol' meetings sat around the table. That way, we're getting our little bit of action and mystery, and time for our characters to recuperate in between. Getting outside of the FC house is important too, a change of scenery helps a long way. 

Syranelle made a good point of leading by example, and I can say it worked for me and my fellow leaders. When we started out, I ran the first few events whilst new members settled in and got a feel for the RP style. Once we got to know each other IC and OOC, they felt more confident and actually approached me to ask about running an event of their own. I was such a proud momma that day, *sniffle*. Also, a small tip: having a good understanding of most characters in your FC will help you in writing your FC plots! What are certain characters talented in? What do they fear the most? Use that as a point of inspiration! Finding plots are relatively easy, if I'm struggling to find something, I refer to Google and look up simple D&D quest ideas. Write it to fit your FC and FFXIV lore and boom, you got a new event. Then there's the whole realm of combat systems, which can add structure and some order to the combat roleplay experience.

Having two of the same types of meet-ups every week can get stale, but like Sena pointed out, what is stopping them from contributing? Are your members aware they can create their own thing with your support? Or are they more the type to want to be... spoonfed RP. >_> I do think the leader should put in the most effort, but roleplay has always been a two-way street, you have to give to receive. Don't burn yourself out if you're doing your best and people are still complaining, the RP might just not be their cup of tea and it's time for them to move on.

(11-15-2016, 05:26 AM)Valence Wrote: [ -> ]Officers OOC don't have to match whatever hierarchical positions characters have IC. OOC officers should always be nominated over their managing, creative abilities as well as their involvement and maturity or whatever you ask them to be.

This. While in the Blades we do our best to match both for simple ease, at the end of the day we'd much prefer a competent officer who does not have an IC rank to match over one that does and abuses their position. Our own leader actually did not receive an 'IC' rank until recently, while my character was essentially the defacto leader in spite of my mere officer position. It can be done if the right people are involved.

Recently we went through a minor shuffling in leadership as our head DM stepped down and we ended up elevating another to fill the vacancy, so I can somewhat speak on the qualities our FC in particular looks for.

• Activity level is one of the biggest factors. We expect our officers to be able to dedicate at least four hours a week to the company and often times it extends far beyond that depending upon the week. Elevating someone who can only be online for an hour or best each night is only asking for problems. Both for the person who was given the rank and the people who might need their help.
  
• Ability to self-sacrifice for the betterment of the FC. This is a bit nebulous but for example I'm mostly the social officer as well as the person who provides the IC hook to get any new recruits into our ranks. While I do have the ability to put my foot down I've often had to sacrifice my time each evening for various reasons.
  
  Someone wants to be recruited? That's three hours I have to set aside to interview them on both and OOC and then an IC level as we pride ourselves on responding in a timely manner. Another member isn't content with the status quo? Again, I set aside what I'm doing to speak with them. Our DM's, which are a subclass of officer with fewer responsibilities, are expected to provide story hooks for our 30+ members. Even if it's just a simple silly quest to go kill 'x' because the larger plot is on hiatus. This often means they sacrifice one day a week or more helping out or providing suggestions.
  
  I literally have not finished the 3.1+ storyline on Odile as of yet in between my need to juggle my duties as an officer, need to level, wish to roleplay, and desire to simply draw and play other games. This is not something I know many people can handle and thus when I look for potentials to elevate I take their ability to put the needs of the many before their own greatly into account.
  
• In keeping with the mood of the former point, the ability to empathize with others is another trait I keep an eye for. Does a member get mad if they aren't the center of attention? Do they stop and offer help to people who need their dailies? Do they allow people to speak in the discord chat or rudely change the subject to focus on them and only them? Can they bite their tongue when they're clearly displeased and find a better way to fix the issue they're having, rather than blast the entire FC to all who will hear it? That's not saying an officer needs to be a paragon of virtue... But in my experience a lot of headaches can be solved rather quickly when an officer actually cares about the others in their group.
  
• Never will I or the leader of the company elevate someone simply because we share a bond of friendship. Likewise seniority has it's place but being the longest lasting member does not automatically mean you're fit for the job. I've seen a LOT of people fall into this trap. Either by giving their significant other a position of power or feeling they 'owe' that one member who was with them the longest some badge of approval for sticking around. Sometimes it sends well. More often than not it's the basis for guilds falling apart.
  
  That's not to say your friends can't be officers and indeed the person Ave and I picked is a very dear friend that we both implicitly trust. Yet in an FC full of similar friends they were the only one that met our strict standards. Which leads me too...
  
• People that take things out of context or get angry at the littlest things are rarely a fit for the position. Petty people make petty outbursts which then can cause huge disputes to arise. The person we made an officer has a very even temper to round out the rest of the staff and so far has been a voice of reason. To the point that he's already shown himself to be a comfortable person for the other members to go towards when they have an issue.
  
  That doesn't mean a go-getter or a more take charge personality won't make for a wonderful officer. But if someone seems aggressive and easily offended, do you -really- want them to have any amount of responsibility?
  

I also agree with everyone echoing that it might be necessary to thin the ranks if people simply aren't making the effort. What I'd recommend is taking the time to contact each of your members individually, yes this will take time, and talking to them one on one about their experience in the FC. You're going to get a lot of bullshit, a lot of straight answers, and a lot of something in between. Yet the members who want to continue will appreciate the venue to air out the 'laundry' so to say. Take this back and discuss what you found with the officers left that you trust and make a choice from there. Either set some standards around what was suggested, or let things continue. Yet it seems clear you're not at -all- happy.

This might be a tip to help members feel welcome, or maybe it's too much. I don't know. I'm pretty self-conscious about my writing abilities (I've logged over 200 hours at my college's writing center just to keep my grades up) and I've never RP'd before, so I was really shy when I started out. AND I was still trying to grasp walk-up/join in etiquette.  In my first FC, I'd often log on and see everyone in the same area, presumably RPing. I'd ask in the OOC chat "hey are you guys RPing?" but what I really meant was "looks like you're RPing, can I join or are you at a no walk up point?" and I'd mostly get silence and sometimes I'd get a "yep." 

So now, if I'm RPing in a group setting and I see someone log in that might not know something is going on, I try to send a message: "hey we're doing X at <pos>, come join us." 

Doing that I think lets people know whats going on and that they're welcome to jump in without feeling like they might be interrupting/intruding/fucking up the story.

Update: I've started to talk to people who never interact with us and people who generally seem not interested in rping with us and have given them an ultimatum to leave (with me refunding their rooms of course) or to actually try and rp with us.

Now I need to think of some way to have people stay out of the house more.

Refunding their rooms? That sounds... a bit too nice.

I don't know if I'd refund either, honestly. I'd keep the gil for a possible redecoration/rebranding.

Also if you'd like to shoot me a PM about it, I don't mind if you'd want to come lamp at some scheduled/improvisational RP we have going around. It could give you some ideas about the -how- to run things since I notice that is usually the biggest roadblock most face.

(11-14-2016, 03:19 PM)Thorbought Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for all the advice everyone. It's certainly give me a lot to mule over. I'll address some points below.

Officers
We actually did originally start with different branches as officers with medical, airships, field, etc etc. The problem is that it ran into problems with ooc and ic and the lack of definition for the officer role. Currently, we've just made a singular officer role for ooc purposes and the person can simply put 'head medic' in their tag for ic purposes rather than making a bunch of different officer roles. I'd like to ask, what do people usually ask for their officers? What would be too little to ask and what would be too much?

Besides creating established roles, maybe have one or two "official" things the officers do, but try custom tailoring roles to what the individual is good at. For example, if one person is good at creating rp and getting people to rp, bam, make them the RP director or whatever. If one person is good at scouting out people, recruitment. You don't even necessarily need to give them official titles -- just let them know what they're in charge of.

When I was an officer in a raiding guild that had around 20-25ish people in it, that was how they did it. When they brought me into the officer core, I asked what they'd expect me to do...and they told me 'just do what you're already doing, but in a more official capacity.' Same thing with most of the other officers -- they pulled in people who were going the extra mile, told us 'this is what we need' and we filled the roles. None of us had official titles; we were just officers. Our members knew who to go to for what, because it was essentially what we were already doing. And when one of us had to take a break for a move, or a baby, or a vacation, or an assignment in the middle east, we'd have a quick chat about who was taking what extra stuff on, and that was that.

Same thing when I was an officer in a rp guild on a mud way back when -- I never had established roles, but I coordinated a lot of rp oocly. That was what was expected from me: building rp plotlines, supporting ones our members/other officers started, answering any questions that arose and brainstorming when needed.

Likewise when I was a mod on a rp forum. We all had general roles, but I was the one people went to when they wanted to push this or that rp plotline -- because it was what I'd already been doing for a couple years. When I got mod status, all it meant was that I had more resources to do what I'd already been doing, and when people had complaints/concerns I could address and settle them or take it to the site admin more directly.

The above won't work for everybody, but there's no reason why you can't look outside of the box for what will best suit your needs. But what I've always seen work best is take a good hard look at the people you have -- the one who goes above and beyond? Try them out and see how they work. The ideal officer (imo) is the one who has already taken on some sort of responsibility for themselves without needing to be asked and without micromanaging others.

I've joked before that people who are officer material are the ones who don't want to go within 100 feet of the position, because they know how much work it is, and they know that responsibility is a burden. Those are the people you want. (not that people who are eager to take on a leadership role because they want to do good aren't good for leadership roles -- it's just in my experience they're a lot rarer).

I think refunding them is fine if OP has the gil and that's what they want to do. All they're being kicked for is inactivity, after all. I've had people expect room refunds for stupider things ("Hey, I decided I wanna leave, can I get a refund for the room I've been using for a year?").