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I actually think that movie is the closest to the true, gripping starwars feel just after the original saga. And not just because of the same timeline. The first saga wasn't putting freaking lightsabers and Jedi everywhere. They came with an added impact at decisive moments. Luke isn't even a Jedi until the last one. It's about believable, everyday characters that are propelled to be heroes of the whole adventure. 

It's not about awesome characters showing how edgy they are. It's about more average joe characters that are vulnerable to every shot fired at them, that die one after another, and the message is less about action figures and more about teamwork and belief/fanatism to a cause. That and... I love how it's an anthology to the most epic succession of goofy and silly plans to save the day ever. The fact it works and is not over the top or looks silly is an accomplishment in itself, and it adds a subtle humorous touch, added to the lines of K-2 and a few others. Jyn and Cassian taking each other hands at the end in front of the apocalypse is the perfect example to me of a more subtle and elegant way to carry emotional care than a stupid basic kiss before would have, and an example of how many things were neatly treated in the screenplay.

Another accomplishment is even if I would have loved to see more character interaction and development, I feel that they are carried so well by the story that a lot of it doesn't even need to be said out loud. Gazes and stuff are often enough. And I bet considering that they have to cover huge story parts on 3 planets, I was amazed that the pace of the movie wasn't butchered or rushed to make all of it fit in the 2:15 hours it takes. So yeah, maybe not a lot of time for more character development... sadly.

I love the fact that everybody died. The end isn't without sending me flashbacks from Empire Strikes Back. It's not a happy end. You start to see it coming when the music suddenly changes for something less action intensive to something smoother and more sad. 

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Now then, some stuff was either puzzling or bad I find.

- Yeah, Guerrera was weirdly done. The extremism suddenly turning into 'YOU HAVE TO HELP YOUR FRIENDS REBEL PANSIES' felt... artificial. And his tentacle monster was probably meant for something but I feel like they edited the final render to a point where it suddenly turned irrelevant and puzzling. 

- That kid in the middle of the ambush. I loved the idea that the ambush was made by Guerrera's men like a terrorist attack and civilians were right in the middle of it.. And then, Jyn is the first one to run to save her. That felt cheesy, the way it was done. Too cliché. The framing on the... 'oh! *gasp* a kid in the middle, crying!'

- A lot of unecessary, artificial cameos, like R2 and C-3PO. That felt out of place. 

It felt strongly like the heavy hand of Disney for all of that.

I figured R2 was going to be in there. It's A New Hope continuity.

To be fair about the character development criticisms I've read online, I didn't really get much character development from A New Hope. Or backstory. And I didn't think it was wholly necessary with Rogue One.

@Warren: I thought Cassian shot the Gerrara rebel because the dude had a grenade and Jyn was in the line of fire.

ngl I totally went into it expecting it to be sub-par. I don't know why. I'll admit I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan. I enjoy the games and such, but I've never been 100% into the movies and world/lore or anything like that.

That being said, Rogue One is probably one of the best I've seen. I like that it was far more down to earth than the other series. Doing so seems to give more of an emotional impact. I didn't expect anything like that when I went into it, and I almost skipped it, but man I'm so glad I went.

@Warren I agree that the Vader neck/helm thing looked weird. I loved the character and all the scenes he was in, but I couldn't stop looking at it when I saw it.

(12-19-2016, 02:55 PM)Kage Wrote: [ -> ]@Warren: yes. SO MUCH YES. I kept staring at the Vader helmet/neck going "was... was that how it always was??? Why does it look so off? and bad?"

The neckpiece was straight up rubber and they didn't even try to hide that fact.

I only remembered the pilot's name was Bodhi because I played a lot of Payday 2.

I actually liked the movie - Vader's sequence at the end was pretty much what I wanted to see (slasher flick Vader is the best). The first third of the movie felt like Space Panoramas Set To Star Wars Music but after that it picks up, I actually like the person playing opposite Donnie Yen's character better, but really both were great and really, I woulda wished they led the movie instead of white bread #1 and white bread #2 but what are you gonna do.

I'm Blaze Malbus.

Pretty good movie. Felt more gray and, dare I say it, mature (ugh). I really liked that the Rebels were finally portrayed in a slightly negative light. The series's movies have always downplayed the shitty things the good guys do, so that was nice to see. Maybe that's what happens when there's no Jedi around? The casting was pretty spot on, but the Saw buildup kind of just... deflated? What was up with that? They should have at least made him do something cool.

Other than that, no real complaints. K-2 was the perfect sort of comedy, great battle scenes. I'd love a sequel, but... well.

(12-19-2016, 03:45 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: [ -> ]I might've missed it in the mix, but did they explain why Prince Caspian shoots that one rebel during the tankbuster scene?

The rebel was about to throw a grenade at the tank, which Jyn was huddled up against at the moment. He chose to shoot him rather than have his ticket to Galen get blasted to bits.

...speaking of blasted to bits, did anyone else notice that essentially every major character died from an explosion? First Saw Gerrara got killed by the Death Star laser's blast in Jedha, then K2 got finished off by the explosion of the console he smashed (Yes, he was shot a lot before then, but still!), then Chirrut got killed by an exploding panel after flipping the master switch... Baze and Bodhi both got dropped by imperial grenades, and then Jyn, Cassian, and Krennic were all swatted by Death Star test two. (And you can even count General Merrick dying in the fiery crash of his X-wing, if you like.) I just thought that was kind of odd that no one died of...anything else. Guess blasters are just for grunts.

(12-21-2016, 03:46 AM)Oroban Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-19-2016, 03:45 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: [ -> ]I might've missed it in the mix, but did they explain why Prince Caspian shoots that one rebel during the tankbuster scene?

The rebel was about to throw a grenade at the tank, which Jyn was huddled up against at the moment. He chose to shoot him rather than have his ticket to Galen get blasted to bits.

...speaking of blasted to bits, did anyone else notice that essentially every major character died from an explosion? First Saw Gerrara got killed by the Death Star laser's blast in Jedha, then K2 got finished off by the explosion of the console he smashed (Yes, he was shot a lot before then, but still!), then Chirrut got killed by an exploding panel after flipping the master switch... Baze and Bodhi both got dropped by imperial grenades, and then Jyn, Cassian, and Krennic were all swatted by Death Star test two. (And you can even count General Merrick dying in the fiery crash of his X-wing, if you like.) I just thought that was kind of odd that no one died of...anything else. Guess blasters are just for grunts.

Space Dad also died from Alliance bombs. We did talk about that on the way out but I was way more distracted by Vader's neck.

They're all Stormtroopers still right? So obviously... none of the main characters could die from a stormtrooper who can't aim.

Vader's pun was pretty awful.
That whole scene was unnecessary.

The character of Saw was also transparently an attempt to add moral ambiguity to the film, a redundancy. They couldn't put a torturer in the Alliance so they made him a Rebel apart from the Rebels. The part where they for some reason needed to take the message to him rather than just the Rebels proper was weird. It would have made more sense for them to intercept the transport pilot, kidnap him and interrogate him themselves.

I was a bit disappointed Donnie's character wasn't more important but I'm a fan, lol.

Other complaints were that the film moved very fast and really didn't give us a whole lot of time to get to know the characters. I don't remember most of their names. The inspiring speech scene was as I've come to expect from Star Wars dialogue. The cgi versions of young characters from the first film were technologically impressive but still pretty fake looking to me. I wasn't convinced Peter Cushing was there. It's not quite as bad as McDiarmid's head attached to a spry body with bluescreening in Episode 3's Sheevspin scene but still just didn't work for me and will only continue to be more conspicuous as the years go by.

Despite all of this Rogue One was overall a way better effort than TFA. While the characters didn't get enough time to really grow on you, they did as much as they could in one film and I liked all of them. The attempt to regain the sense that the Rebels could actually lose, as in Empire, was smart, but the film also managed to not be a total downer, meshing nicely with the "Rebellions are built on hope" theme. That's excellent because IMO Star Wars isn't cynical. The action sequences were greatly enhanced by the sense of "suicide attack" involved and you get the feeling that this is how the Rebellion has been doing things up until the Death Star. I would have liked a glimpse into Imperial disunity in the film as in a New Hope, with some officers saying the Death Star will waste time and resources, but in lieu of that we got Tarkin being Tarkin and he's as nasty as I remember, even if he looks fake.

(12-24-2016, 02:06 PM)Caspar Wrote: [ -> ]Vader's pun was pretty awful.
That whole scene was unnecessary.

The character of Saw was also transparently an attempt to add moral ambiguity to the film, a redundancy. They couldn't put a torturer in the Alliance so they made him a Rebel apart from the Rebels. The part where they for some reason needed to take the message to him rather than just the Rebels proper was weird. It would have made more sense for them to intercept the transport pilot, kidnap him and interrogate him themselves. 

A general issue that's somewhat understandable. We're in a era where the line between 'rebels' and 'terrorists' are somewhat blurred. Especially since irl, the 'good guys' are often the ones with the overpowering army, and the 'bad guys' are the underdog.  

Also note, this is Disney. They expect children to watch this show, although parts were graphic, it was always somewhat clear who the bad guys were and who the good guys were. I think they cut-out the hammerhead blowing up with the Star Destroyers to avoid the whole suicide ramming trigger. We also probably wouldn't see the A-wing crashing into the Super Star Destroyer bridge in this era.

I enjoyed it!  I felt less enthused about the film than I did during the high points of my first watching of Awakens, but it held up its end of the bargain to the very end, and my post-viewing judgement has been much gentler on Rogue One than on Awakens.

Overall I think it fits a little below Episode II, and the original trilogy on my Star Wars list.

Some thoughts...

The first is that its simply not a good movie.  Its charm is entirely in its relationship to a canon established through the original trilogy.  Anyone watching this movie on its own would have, literally, no clue what or why.  It cannot serve as a prequel, and that's a bit of a shame. 

The non-stop action allowed for no denouement.  Some of this is due to the film literally moving immediately into A New Hope.  Fair enough, but nonetheless I spent the entire film run wishing I could just take a moment to catch my breath.  Not my usual type of film.

The character's actually held together pretty well.  None of them had any real depth, except perhaps the monk and the mercenary (or whatever he was), but one could only sense their depth while gazing in wonder at their easy scene-stealing manner.  This contrasts starkly from Awakens, were literally no new character made any sense whatsoever.

It was a tidy little plot that plugged holes left by A New Hopes opening.  I do earnestly like how the Death Star's weakness is now covered.  It makes sense as intentional sabotage.  That didn't save Galen's character from being horribly lame.  But, oh well.

I never understood Cassien.  Wasn't he supposed to be the audience stand-in in this one?  I felt so at least, Jyn was clearly too wounded and different by her front-and-center upbringing.  She was the chosen one.  Cassien was... us.  But what the heck man?  I found him pretty much obnoxious and underwhelming throughout.  He was definitely no Han Solo. 

The Rebel fleet appearing en masse was -amazing-!. I actually exclaimed in the theater at the sight of it.  There's just nothing like an entire fleet dropping suddenly out of Hyperspace right on top of the enemy... especially when its the good guys!

The entire final space battle was terrific.  The ground battle felt, I don't know, incredibly silly?  For such an important installation it sure was poorly defended (where were the fixed defenses?  why was there only like a company of storm troopers?  Why did they abandon exactly what it was they were supposed to be defending in order to fight on... entirely pointless beaches?  I mean entirely pointless. These guys all have SPACE SHIPS, they don't need beaches.  And why are there Storm Troopers with Beach Camo?  Its like someone thought a remake of Saving Private Ryan starring Storm Troopers would be a really cool idea.

 I also don't get the whole "go right to the dish to use it" thing. They haven't discovered network cable or something?

Speaking of Private Ryan, why aren't there more tanks in Star Wars?  Seems like one of those would have stopped the rebel soldier dudes pretty fast.

I like seeing the lesser force-sensitive characters.  I wish Force Awakens had taken this route rather than the Super Hero route it took.  The Force is with me.  I am with the Force.  A little hint of faith in the Force as a spiritual religion.  More plausible and believable than most any other approach to the Force we've seen, yay!

I read the comments about the wasted use of Vader (among many weird and out-of-place scenes in this film), and I couldn't agree more.  Like Kylo Renn taking his helmet off early: WHYYYYYYYYYYY?  Sometimes waiting is better. 

I feel like they should either have shown the entire construction of the Death Star, or skipped it entirely. Showing only the ray-crater thing being shoved into place was pretty pointless. And is that thing really supposed to be one giant piece?  This isn't a lego set, and I'm just not buying it.  That'd be a hunk of metal the size of a small continent that just happened to fit perfectly into place without need for adjustment or welding.  Not even with Space Magic am I buying that!

Taaarkiiiiiiin.. yeeees!

Leiaaaa! Yessss!

Mon Mooothma, and all these other cameos, YES!

I loved the Droid, but he wasn't believable as a droid. Maybe that's just me though...

Yo Imperial Guys who join the Rebels (I'm looking at you Mr. Droid, and Bodhi).  AT LEAST REMOVE YOUR IMPERIAL INSIGNIA.  And why did he wear his safety goggles for the entire movie?  Were they afraid we wouldn't recognize him if he took them off?

But, really, other than it being a pure-action movie and thus not really up my alley, I enjoyed this film and look forward to seeing it again

Excellent final third of a film, but getting to that third was a hell of a slog.

About the only low point of the movie for me was Vader punning. Otherwise, I had a great time. Outstanding entry in to the Star Wars canon.

That said, ep. VII showed that the new guard can tell awesome stories too, even if that story hit the same old notes. It's time for Star Wars to stop staring mistily at eps. 4-6 and move forward.

I LIKED THE PUN, YOU CURMUDGEONS!!! GIVE THE MAN HIS DAD JOKE