(05-21-2017, 04:14 PM)Oswin Wrote: [ -> ]I take offense to this. To say that the player exclusion, stalkers and cliques are mythical is wholly uncalled for. There are many people that have experienced such behavior and to outright dismiss them is unacceptable. It could be in the minority of the experiences, but there are experiences that happen on a daily occurrence.
My apologies if anything caused offense. The vague allegations about player exclusion, stalkers, and rampant cliques do exist (so they are not purely mythical), but are greatly exaggerated, will exist on /any/ community, and make up a tiny, minute fraction of the server. I suppose it's possible if you have a tiny 20-40 RP FC on a small server that homogenizes all content that you could greatly reduce these elements, but they will still likely exist.
Again, it's unfortunate if someone feels so bad that they feel that leaving the community is the only answer, especially considering that the community is enormous, the blacklist function exists, and the fact that this is the internet - where no one is going to punch you from across the screen.
You could attribute these type of complaints to any RP server (or place in general) by pointing to a handful of isolated examples of misconduct. For a real world example, imagine if someone decided to move away from a rural town in Idaho - citing that it had terrible gang violence, a strip club, and too many bars [assume all of these things exist in tiny proportions]. Reasonable people wouldn't suddenly deem that small town America's new vice den; they'd just presume that the person moved for personal reasons.
I genuinely don't understand why the OP has such a bizarre stake in this, while still managing to be so completely misguided in everything they say. I don't want to do a whole big thing because I could systematically take apart everything they've said and I just don't want to waste my time, so here are some key points.
1. Other MMOs have multiple RP servers and they thrive. As long as the communities make an effort to let people know they are RP servers when the MMO itself doesn't label them, they thrive and grow together.
2. Telling new players who want to join and RP now that they should wait for an arbitrary time (will get into this in the next point) so they can join what you consider the one true RP server, essentially meaning they shouldn't play at all in the meantime, is beyond ignorant and ridiculous to sya while you sit comfortably on the server in question already.
RPers and MMO players in general are fickle and unlikely to wait around before they give up and go back to their old game or something else. I had a group of people I know eager to get on Balmung and they almost cancelled playing the game entirely until I convinced them to go to Mateus. It's worked out great despite people like you trying to sabotage the efforts.
3. They closed Balmung temporarily with Heavensward and reopened it, yes. Difference being this time they explicitly said the server was going to be closed until the populations evened out. Balmung has over 2x as many people as any other server, it is going to take a long time for the populations to even out. Unless you have explicit proof of when the restriction will be lifted you have zero right to tell people they're damaging the RP community by not waiting around in limbo.
4. Expecting everyone on Mateus to shell out 20 dollars to move to another server because you think that's what's best for the community is ridiculous and doesn't even need discussed. Unless you're going to pay for everyone to transfer, just stop.
I don't know you beyond the negative posts you've been dropping in basically every thread regarding this debacle, but so far it just seems like you're worried you won't have access to ALL THE RP on Balmung if some people decide they want to be elsewhere. You come off as selfish.
Please think about others, particularly the new players. Mateus has almost doubled in size over the last few days with cities being noticeably more crowded and our RP linkshell filling to the point of needing a new one. We have a good community here now and I hope to see it continue to grow despite you making this crusade against it.
I think that it's:
1.) Unfair to expect new players who want to RP to automatically also be willing to pay the $18 to transfer to Balmung or whatever official RP server ends up being designated. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that a designated RP server would quickly be subject to similar character creation restrictions that Balmung is given the sheer size of Balmung (26k or so players iirc?). I don't think it speaks poorly of RPers' "dedication" to their hobby, either, since... You know.
RP is a hobby, and people who want to RP shouldn't be derided for an unwillingness to transfer to a huge server that is honestly probably really intimidating. Bigger is not always better, and I'd argue that Balmung's size is just as much a deterrent as it is an incentive to transfer. (In the hypothetical world in which the server lock never happens, or in the future-hypothetical world wherein the transfer lock is indeed lifted a month or two after Stormblood launches)
And...
2.) Unfair to dismiss legitimate concerns regarding the toxicity of certain sects of Balmung's greater "community" as being unimportant in the grander scheme or simply not existing at all. Things such as stalkers, flaky RP partners, being invisible in a sea of people, rampant ERP and romance plots masquerading as non-ERP and romance plots that get dropped as soon as it becomes clear that ERP isn't what you're after... It's really easy to argue that these things aren't huge problems, or that these problems don't exist when these things aren't happening to you.
I'll return momentarily to Balmung's size. The community is absolutely massive -- so massive that it's really difficult to be able to get a bearing for all of its demographics, issues, and benefits at a glance. Especially because RPers are very prone to carving out little comfort zones and corners to call their own, which they probably rarely break out of because, well... It's called a comfort zone for a reason.
Just like it's easy to argue that these things don't happen because they haven't happened to you or any of the 30 people in your immediate circle (out of how many players on the server?), someone who gets lost in the crowd at every massive event they attend is probably going to get the impression that the community is a closed circle regardless of whatever individual success stories they hear. Someone who gets into the community only to be stalked by someone probably isn't going to be very comforted by assurances that it's not a problem of the greater community of that it doesn't happen often. Someone who constantly has all their connections and plots fall through probably isn't going to come away with a very positive impression of the greater RP culture on the server.
Given that Balmung's RP community is hardly an organized, monolithic entity even on good days (I've probably seen as many different stances on ERP, romance, RP etiquette, lore interpretations and compliance, FC organization, approaches to plot-planning or lack thereof, dice systems, etc. as I have people on the server), I don't think that even the people already on the server can reasonably be expect to stand in "solidarity" in favor of Balmung's continued health (which imo is in no way in any immediate danger) or in favor of designating an official RP server, let alone the people who would rather stick to a smaller scene for whatever reason, and God forbid the people who actually left Balmung due to personal reasons already in the past.
No matter how common or uncommon such alienating actions (from RPer, ERPer or non-RPer alike) are, first impressions make a drastic impression on people. Bad impressions are hard to shake off.
A friend made an alt on Balmung and of all things she had had to see first thing was "Make sure he doesn't grope you." I now have to work in showing her that there are other positive interactions, RP or otherwise. It is so common to see on twitter someone logging into Balmung and looking at any number of chats tweet "Balmung what is wrong with you?"
(05-21-2017, 04:26 PM)EliBallard Wrote: [ -> ]I genuinely don't understand why the OP has such a bizarre stake in this, while still managing to be so completely misguided in everything they say. I don't want to do a whole big thing because I could systematically take apart everything they've said and I just don't want to waste my time, so here are some key points.
1. Other MMOs have multiple RP servers and they thrive. As long as the communities make an effort to let people know they are RP servers when the MMO itself doesn't label them, they thrive and grow together.
2. Telling new players who want to join and RP now that they should wait for an arbitrary time (will get into this in the next point) so they can join what you consider the one true RP server, essentially meaning they shouldn't play at all in the meantime, is beyond ignorant and ridiculous to sya while you sit comfortably on the server in question already.
RPers and MMO players in general are fickle and unlikely to wait around before they give up and go back to their old game or something else. I had a group of people I know eager to get on Balmung and they almost cancelled playing the game entirely until I convinced them to go to Mateus. It's worked out great despite people like you trying to sabotage the efforts.
3. They closed Balmung temporarily with Heavensward and reopened it, yes. Difference being this time they explicitly said the server was going to be closed until the populations evened out. Balmung has over 2x as many people as any other server, it is going to take a long time for the populations to even out. Unless you have explicit proof of when the restriction will be lifted you have zero right to tell people they're damaging the RP community by not waiting around in limbo.
4. Expecting everyone on Mateus to shell out 20 dollars to move to another server because you think that's what's best for the community is ridiculous and doesn't even need discussed. Unless you're going to pay for everyone to transfer, just stop.
I don't know you beyond the negative posts you've been dropping in basically every thread regarding this debacle, but so far it just seems like you're worried you won't have access to ALL THE RP on Balmung if some people decide they want to be elsewhere. You come off as selfish.
Please think about others, particularly the new players. Mateus has almost doubled in size over the last few days with cities being noticeably more crowded and our RP linkshell filling to the point of needing a new one. We have a good community here now and I hope to see it continue to grow despite you making this crusade against it.
I'll ignore the personal attacks/inflammatory language and respond to the substance of your post. The crux of this issue is that fragmenting the RP population across multiple servers is detrimental to the long-term health of the RP community. It is something that should be avoided. Mateus RPers and Balmung RPers should have access to a single large, diverse, vibrant, and stable RP community. Server selection should not artificially divide RPers. Trust me - I am thinking about others (specifically what actions will create the best RP community for the most amount of people), and know full well that taking strong stances on these issues is like serving as a reputation punching bag.
To address your points in turn:
1. See original post re: effects of dividing the community and detrimental impact to both primary and alternative communities.
2. New players can select among several other servers and engage in RP until Balmung opens back up (or an official server is designated). I would simply hope they understand the importance of consolidating RP on one server and transfer when the time comes.
3. This is a great point. No one knows for certain what SE will do. Hence, instead of trying to do something that has failed dozens of times before (i.e. - creating a second unofficial RP server), we should be putting as much pressure on SE to either lift the transfer restriction or designate an official RP server.
4. It's unfortunate that individuals who would stay on an alleged second alternative RP server cannot see the value of being members of the greater RP community. The RP community as well does not benefit by the segregation of that population. We should stick together.
Until the restriction is lifted or an official server is designated, I'm glad RPers are taking steps to help newcomers fill welcome on Maetus and other servers. But crowning
any new server as the new "unofficial RP server" is a step in the wrong direction.
Pointing out flaws of Balmung is not "bashing the server" wow. Acknowledging the faults of the server is making sure you stay realistic with the server.
I myself have a lot of stories of cliques, stalkers, erp hounds. I'm not a lurker, I've been here since 1.0. Are you going to tell me my experiences are invalid?
(05-21-2017, 04:41 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: [ -> ]Pointing out flaws of Balmung is not "bashing the server" wow. Acknowledging the faults of the server is making sure you stay realistic with the server.
I myself have a lot of stories of cliques, stalkers, erp hounds. I'm not a lurker, I've been here since 1.0. Are you going to tell me my experiences are invalid?
^^^^^
The fact of the matter is, on top of other issues, Balmung/the
game itself is not designed to have as many people on the server as it does. Community split aside, it's causing issues outside of RP that need to be taken into consideration as well.
Remember when Balmung crashed the Aether datacenter? Peppridge Farm remembers.
Quote:I find it interesting that those who don't put the effort to try and connect, or don't make themselves known to the point that others can't help them, are here to kick Balmung now that is "down". Alienating Balmung RPers with these one-off instances of anger and personal grievances, isn't doing anyone a favor. To pretend that this is the norm for Balmung is wholly untrue, and to pretend that the time for Balmung RP has somehow passed because some experiences turned people off to it, but in no way make up the way things actually are in reality, is just taking personal attacks and using them to amplify your voices, and it won't go over well.
Balmung is still a great RP server, and there is no reason that both RP servers can't exist peacefully together as a community, as they will always be connected, and when they aren't, it doesn't end well.
I've been around Balmung for several years now across many characters, in many capacities, across many guilds - including ones I've run, myself. Please don't do this.
I find it disturbing that someone saying "Hey Balmung hasn't worked well for me, I don't think I fit in here" is immediately met with stern accusations of "and that is all your fault because you didn't try hard enough."
god forbid we grow a new rp community so that new and old players alike can make characters without shelling out $18 or being completely locked out of the server
really all this Balmung centralism has only made the problem worse. the only reason why you think the smaller servers don't have sustainable RP communities is because everyone and their mom consolidates on Balmung
it's this BALMUNG OR GO HOME attitude that prevents the growth of alternate RP communities. You're only going to discourage new players from even TRYING at building a new community with that type of talk.
Like Eli mentioned above me, other games have multiple RP servers that thrive just fine. We should be excited that Mateus' RP scene is growing.
I think it's pretty cool, I made an alt on Gilgamesh when they started out, I may make one on Mateus as well.
(05-21-2017, 04:41 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: [ -> ]Pointing out flaws of Balmung is not "bashing the server" wow. Acknowledging the faults of the server is making sure you stay realistic with the server.
I myself have a lot of stories of cliques, stalkers, erp hounds. I'm not a lurker, I've been here since 1.0. Are you going to tell me my experiences are invalid?
(05-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Val Wrote: [ -> ] (05-21-2017, 04:41 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: [ -> ]Pointing out flaws of Balmung is not "bashing the server" wow. Acknowledging the faults of the server is making sure you stay realistic with the server.
I myself have a lot of stories of cliques, stalkers, erp hounds. I'm not a lurker, I've been here since 1.0. Are you going to tell me my experiences are invalid?
^^^^^
The fact of the matter is, on top of other issues, Balmung/the game itself is not designed to have as many people on the server as it does. Community split aside, it's causing issues outside of RP that need to be taken into consideration as well.
Those are your personal experiences, and no one can dispute them. However, cliques, stalkers, and other Balmung boogeymen are not systemic problems that pervade every element of this server or impact significant numbers of people.
Again, for a real world example, imagine if someone decided to move away from a rural town in Idaho - citing that it had terrible gang violence, a strip club, and too many bars [assume all of these things exist in tiny proportions]. Reasonable people wouldn't suddenly deem that small town America's new vice den; they'd just presume that the person moved for personal reasons.
I'm all for another roleplay community, however I'm still going to stress on the fact people need to be given a choice which one they prefer. At this current point and time, they do not. That needs to be addressed, provided this lock last for months on end. It might not though! Hopefully.
Except I can probably guarantee most people here have had an experience like that. I'd put money on it because I actually communicate with these people - here, on the game, and on Tumblr. Go to the Void and you'll see people constantly talking about all of these things and their experiences.
Does this mean Balmung is a bad server? Of course not. But don't invalidate these things just because it's an uncomfortable reality.
When you have that many people on one server, you bring the bad with the good.