Hydaelyn Role-Players

Firstly, thank all of you who take the time to read this. I know it's coming from a new user here, and among lots of debate and discussion on the matter. I just felt like I wanted to put my thoughts out there, in a clear and concise manner, and somewhere that isn't buried in twenty-some pages of back and forth.

When I refer to the Balmung Problem, I don't mean necessarily that the server or it's community is a problem. Certainly the server is crowded, full beyond any hope of making a character, and has been since launch. For me that has been the biggest discouragement to get into this game since I initially purchased A Realm Reborn all those years ago. The community had found it's default roleplaying home before the game was even out, and from day one I couldn't get a character on the server. So I went back to Warcraft, where I didn't have that problem.

Two years later, I tried again, running into the same wall. Still I couldn't get a character on the home of the bulk of roleplayers. Being someone who has roleplayed for years at this point, and someone who had attempted to help start a server back up from the ground in Warcraft, I was again discouraged. Having a thriving, large community had always been so important. From Shadow Council, to Steamwheedle Cartel, Sisters of Elune, Moon Guard, and Wyrmrest Accord. all of the roleplaying servers Warcraft offered had one thing in common. Their community was large. Stable. They'd dug their heels in and built something. Even as some of these servers died the groups moved to new servers, usually with free transfers offered, in bulk.

Granted, Warcraft doesn't have housing. There's nothing so invested in a server, if a community is given the opportunity to move as a whole. Even in other games moving a character across servers is far less dangerous, despite housing, as that housing is typically a player instance that can move with you. FFXIV poses a bit of an obstacle this way.

It also poses an obstacle to new roleplayers, old roleplayers who are just new here, or wanted to be new here at some point and gave up. Even in the discussions about moving there are large amounts of established people on Balmung who have been very forthcoming in stating "We aren't going anywhere.", leaving this other section of the community, small as they are, to squabble about where to go. Scattered and cut off, with no large group to provide gravity, there is no real consensus about what the next step is in attempting a new server.

Warcraft at least, despite all the dead servers, has two things going for it. Moon Guard, the old standard, having stood the test of time even despite it's poor reputation, labelled only for a single inn. On the other end, Wyrmrest Accord, home to the masses of other servers that fell apart, communities that crumbled over time, and now standing as the other pillar of the RP community among a large number of servers that are RP in name only.

Balmung is the Moon Guard of this game. I mean that as a compliment, naturally. You are the old guard. You have stood the test of time. You are so full it's ridiculous. The community you provide, then, is incredibly attractive and simultaneously entirely inaccessible. From the polls I've seen elsewhere debating what server might be able to stand as the Wyrmrest of this game, there's no one server with more than just over a hundred votes. The rest pale in comparison. Compared to thousands upon thousands of you, heels dug in, standing firm that this is where your friends and relationships are. This is where you've invested your time. That's great, it really is. It just sucks for those on the fringes, looking in, unable to build something new for one very simple reason.

They don't have you to support them.

The problem with Balmung is how successful you've been, despite the unending barrier to entry. Even when transfers open they are discouraged, because it just locks the realm down again. Making a character there is impossible. Now the burden of building a second community is left on the few, trying to have any hope of achieving a sliver of what you already have, and had before the realm was reborn in the first place thanks to this very site. This is not an easy thing. It will not be an easy thing. People don't want to spend money to move, for one. And those on the smaller servers, and in the smaller communities, risk wasting that money by making the jump only to watch a small community flounder and fail, rather than joining (or dreaming of joining) a community that is already strong.

Yes, clearly, there needs to be incentive to leave Balmung for one thing. Incentive that is hard to provide, even with free transfers. Those who have houses won't accept reimbursement as an aid, thanks to the questionable house flipping that occurs for outrageous amounts of money, a problem that has no easy solution. Still, if no one makes that sacrifice, if no free companies or other groups take that plunge, this will not get better. It will not improve. No second community will spring up.

Because Balmung already has everything we want, and the people there know it.

/endrant

I don't really get this attitude.

When I started rping, Gilgamesh and Balmung were each fairly represented on these forums. I chose Balmung by happenstance; at the time, I didn't consider it to be notably better.

I also didn't know anyone.

I didn't have the benefit of knowing old guard, or whatever. I had no one.

So I did whatever I do whenever I join a new community: I started to talk to people. I browsed wikis, I chatted up other new people, I invited people to join me in forum threads should they not be on my server. And slowly, I built my connections.

Here's the thing: the reason why new servers could never become as big as balmung (or, at the time, Gilgamesh) was because a solid chunk of new people would either flat out join balmung via transfer (or get lucky in the ever shrinking character creation windows, at that time), or try out a smaller community, get frustrated with it, and then transfer to balmung.

But guess what! No one can get on! And there are plenty of new people looking for rp!

Yes, people in the overarching rp community helping to organize information does help. But beyond that, when it comes down to it, this is a game of individuals. This is a game of persuasion. This is a game of recruitment.

You want people to rp with you on a new server? Make yourself heard. Rather than preach to people on Balmung, preach to the new people. Preach to the people without a home. Preach to the ones who have not been successful at finding rp. Bring them to you. The more individuals with drive who do this, the higher a chance you'll get people settled onto a server who will put roots down and won't be willing to transfer.

And if Balmung opens up -- you dig your heels in and you keep preaching. Make yourself visible, make yourself heard. It's not necessarily what anyone on Balmung does at this point -- it's how welcoming and friendly and brilliant you make yourself appear when compared to Balmung's established reputation.

You know how Mateus got to be the heavyweight in the 'what new server?' discussion? Because they have people who stepped up and said 'hey, we're here! Hey, we're friendly! HEY, WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.'

Over. And over. And over. They made themselves visible. They dug their heels in. They're trying to make a place where people can set down roots and hopefully spawn multiple interconnected small communities within the server.

To do that, they didn't say 'Balmung, what are you doing, come on.' The main person I saw stepping up just flat out pitched his heart out, made himself available, and had some cheerfully dedicated people backing him up and making everyone feel welcome.

Rather than look over your shoulder at Balmung, start beckoning people to come to you. That's how you're gonna do it.

-Drags dead horse out and starts kicking it-

Zhavi is right. People need to listen to her more for serious.

If you plan events and are vocal and work hard, people will show up and you can be drowning in rp before you know it. Everyone has to start not knowing anyone and work their way up. It's a climb. But gotta do it. Balmung was nothing once upon a time too.

-kicks dead horse a few more times and walks off-

(06-03-2017, 05:11 PM)SoMuchY Wrote: [ -> ]Firstly, thank all of you who take the time to read this. I know it's coming from a new user here, and among lots of debate and discussion on the matter. I just felt like I wanted to put my thoughts out there, in a clear and concise manner, and somewhere that isn't buried in twenty-some pages of back and forth.

When I refer to the Balmung Problem, I don't mean necessarily that the server or it's community is a problem. Certainly the server is crowded, full beyond any hope of making a character, and has been since launch. For me that has been the biggest discouragement to get into this game since I initially purchased A Realm Reborn all those years ago. The community had found it's default roleplaying home before the game was even out, and from day one I couldn't get a character on the server. So I went back to Warcraft, where I didn't have that problem.

Two years later, I tried again, running into the same wall. Still I couldn't get a character on the home of the bulk of roleplayers.

You had countless opportunities before the lockdown to secure a spot by paying the transfer fee, as a lot of other users have had to do in order to play on Balmung.

While I sympathize with Balmung exploding to be the only RP server, I can tell you that really wasn't the intent. I'm one of the "old guard" who helped build Besaid (But eventually left after a few months because JFC that game) and we had pretty much the same struggles. 1.0's RP community wasn't that big at all, but we powered through. Building a community is difficult, not a lot of people -want- to do it.

When 2.0 was released, there was a large attempt for there to be diversified RP servers (Some were uncomfortable with the "old guard" and wanted to start fresh) and, for a time, Gilgamesh was actually running quite well. From what I heard from people who joined after Gilgamesh's rp community collapsed there were various reasons within the rp community there for this, but it -wasn't- the intention of Balmung to swallow them all up, they just had no where to go.

People are pushing Mateus now, hell I'm pushing Mateus now, but Mateus needs upstarts. It needs to make sure it doesn't get dragged down by one or two FCs trying to lead the server, it needs diversity in RP styles, it needs people. The only way to get people is for new people to head there and give it a try. I've SEEN people from Balmung supporting the endeavors of Mateus, right now, that's really all we can do.

We can lead the horse to water, but we can't make them drink.

There's a tremendous opportunity for people on Mateus to establish themselves as leaders in the Mateus RP community. ArmachiA's right on the money: the only way for the Mateus community to thrive is to have a wide diversity of RP. Build it, and they will come.

(06-03-2017, 11:28 PM)Hilde Wrote: [ -> ]You had countless opportunities before the lockdown to secure a spot by paying the transfer fee, as a lot of other users have had to do in order to play on Balmung.

This isn't fair on anyone who has been locked out for years. It's almost like Balmung is a VIP club and you have to pay a fee to get in. Sure, people will do it, but why should they?

OP: If it helps, us EU peeps never got a say on what we'd like to be the unofficial server for our side of the water, even when the datacenters came in at a later time. Either we accept the bad ping (because it's 250+ for a lot of us now), or we fend for ourselves.

*looks in while eating a bowl of peaches* Anyone want some?

That said, there are those of us working on the "Wyrmrest Accord" effect. I am one of them helping bring Mateus to the forefront and I will continue to do so, until I am unable to use this megaphone going "Give me your poor! Your hungry! Your adventures of old and new!" Because really, I see Mateus as very much as New York in the very early days of settlement.

Hell, that is what I see the RPC Linkshell as-- New York and from there-- they go to the Hub-- and from there-- they travel out west, creating their own settlements and towns. Mining up gold and finding their own way.

Other servers can do this as well, Jenova, Siren, Fairy-- I think to name a few. Though many of them have yet to speak up loudly. I wish they would because I do feel they have a place to offer as well.

No one should see this as a place or time to despair, but a time to really reach out and MAKE something! I love the support of these forums and the people in general, because this support-- This support is what a Roleplay community is about. Not about Balmung or Gilgamesh, or Mateus, or any other server. It is about us, as a community, working together to strive for a goal. That goal right now is to help others find a new home in the frontier and make a new place.

So, don't worry. Folks are stepping up. Things are getting done. Places are growing in strength and given probably next year, if things continue to grow well, continue to thrive strong like it is now...

We as a community, will only be stronger for it and truly be one big family. Like we always have been. Also thank you guys for the Mateus support and love.

So... Wait. You're writing an essay on a server you've never been on, and then proceeded to compare it to and entirely different game community with different values (of which, with the competitive nature of the two servers compared on WoW, have very different views of one another), and then saying that the people who actually did spend the money to get on the big RP server should ignore that fee and come help a new server? They who invested money for something they wanted, that you did not?

Don't get me wrong, I entirely support Mateus and even got a character over there myself. But this sounds... Like you didn't get what you want and you're trying to make others stop what they're doing and give it to you. Shaming and preaching obligation is a graceless way of asking for help.

The blind aggression on the Discord communities of other servers towards Balmung folks isn't cute, either, nor does it positively encourage assistance from Balmung. I believe if you want to help you'll ignore the salt and do so anyways, but the blame game should be put to rest.

It is not my intention to disparage you but your essay seems to have a circular theme, dropping on the same singular grievance that can be (perhaps incorrectly) easily assumed as a scathing commentary about one of the largest populated servers. I don't assume to know your history but I feel that if you had made the effort to do so you might have discovered that until this point there were other ways to get onto Balmung that circumvented the character creation restrictions and barring that, perhaps might have attempted as others clearly have to establish an alternative rp server perhaps by reaching out before this.

Coming from a WoW RP server that died because of these transfers to Moon Guard and WrA and Emerald Dream despite the dedication and best efforts by well established members of the community I feel I need to point out that there are those of us who are comforted by the phrase "we are not going anywhere". I feel I cannot emphasize the reassurance of this mantra enough as based on no further information you yourself have never had to experience whole groups of friends, guilds and rp partners 'jumping ship' en masse for those greener pastures.

Your argument about smaller groups squabbling where to go feels uninformed and I can only assume you must have missed the surveys for EU and American players as they attempt to form this decision for the establishment of a new community. To give you the quick summery it seems that currently Mateus has the run of it for new NA servers and last I checked Lich was overtaking the other options where EU was concerned. 

You also think that no one is transferring and I believe it is an understandable mistake to assume that as this movement has been quieter. Last week there was a group of EU friends that transferred out, causing a snap up of abandoned properties that is unlikely to have been noticed due to the speed. Players are transferring alts to Mateus in order to play with friends that could not reach Balmung.

Taking all this information into account I can only assume your arguments are bore out of gross misinformation, frustration and a minimal amount of resentment. Am I happy to finally after 10 years of being on low and declining server populations from various games to finally be on a server where I don't have to fight to find rp? Hell yes I am. Please do not assume though as I feel you are, that I am an entitled spoiled stubborn role-player who has just had it so good at the expense of other fledgling communities.

(06-04-2017, 07:06 AM)Flynn Rosenberg Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-03-2017, 11:28 PM)Hilde Wrote: [ -> ]You had countless opportunities before the lockdown to secure a spot by paying the transfer fee, as a lot of other users have had to do in order to play on Balmung.

This isn't fair on anyone who has been locked out for years. It's almost like Balmung is a VIP club and you have to pay a fee to get in. Sure, people will do it, but why should they?

OP: If it helps, us EU peeps never got a say on what we'd like to be the unofficial server for our side of the water, even when the datacenters came in at a later time. Either we accept the bad ping (because it's 250+ for a lot of us now), or we fend for ourselves.

The player states that their biggest discouragement getting into the game was that the server filled up after it became a popular hub for RP: "For me that has been the biggest discouragement to get into this game since I initially purchased A Realm Reborn all those years ago. The community had found it's default roleplaying home before the game was even out, and from day one I couldn't get a character on the server."

If they've been around since day one, and then only attempted to get into Balmung two years later after trying once, it seems like they didn't take advantage of the time they could have joined. I've met so many players over the years who woke up at ridiculous hours to nudge a character in after maintenance, or saved their money to afford the fee that would transfer your characters to Balmung before world transfer to the server closed indefinitely. 

If so much of their experience with the game was weighing on joining Balmung, why didn't they perhaps start saving for the transfer fee from the day they couldn't join without transfering or waiting for an open door after maintenance? It has nothing to do with a VIP service - it's what many have had to do to play on there, and it's a little unfair to say that anyone who joined by transferring is just one of those spoiled VIPs when they took the time or paid real money to get the opportunity. Those who have paid for it don't like it anymore than you do, and they shouldn't have to, but that's what it has panned out to for several years. The thing is - that is the server they said they've been absolutely fixed on joining as a roleplayer, but they haven't seemed to put a lot of time into actually trying to join Balmung over the years.

No offense to the Original Poster but I read your statement twice over and each time I read it I feel like its almost bashing 'us' on Balmung for not wanting to transfer off? Some of us have been on this server since 2.0 Launch. The responsibility of creating an atmosphere typically falls upon just one individual starting something and working hard to get it lifted off the ground (really Hard but its very plausible!). It's like running a Free Company but bigger, the Organization is the same though. You need to cull out the in-actives, you need to find people willing to help you and get them elevated into positions that can assist the development you seek. You also then need to hit the pavement per-say and get the information out there. 

This site is only one avenue, the Main Forums is another good place to advertise because a lot of new players don't come here immediately but end up finding this place due to Google Searches and what not. I just don't think its entirely fair to state Balmung is the Problem when on the reverse (from what I read mind you) it doesn't seem you've stepped up to try and create an environment else where either or have gone into any great details about any efforts you've attempted to make.

Free Company's are born on Balmung every-day, but its the ones that put in the effort that grow. Its a community you try to foster. My own free company is fairly new to Balmung (Created in December) but after nearly 6 Months, we went from a Member Base of 4 to 40. Not because we 'waited' for people to join but got ourselves out there, pushed our theme, made great efforts on promotion and building a good name. These are things that take time to cultivate and time to grow. Its not an overnight thing, and it certainly isn't easy. Early on I had to do a great deal of things alone but as I garnished members I found people who would put the work in too and thus had help. This is the same story for most FC leaders who have growing, developing communities. Especially the big communities here on HRPC! They all had to put in the same effort, not only them but HRPC here too! Kylin who started this I'm assuming didn't have a great deal of help back then but the idea was born and the leg work started. (Sorry if I'm wrong, Kylin I knew back as Costia so He's the first person I know to have run this site... back in 2.0).

I get it an RP Environment is harder to foster, but the principles are still there. Leg Work, Promotion, Time and Patience.

[Orriginal Poster Stated this: They don't have you to support them.  ] 

The above in brackets is the reason why It seems you havent put in the leg work because it appears you want others to do it instead. Unfortunately that isnt how a successful organization is built, atleast for long term lifespans. We are here to offer advice and what not but the /other/ server whatever it may be needs someone there that'll put in all the above I mentioned...

I am also a part of the "old guard" that came from Besaid. I made friends there, they came to Balmung when the servers merged, and I continue to stay there because my friends are still there.

Go, rally the troops to create a new RP server. You have my support 100%. But don't be angry at us for not wanting to abandon our homes. If you really want people to move, encourage SE to name an RP server and give us the opportunity to move as a group and keep all of the things we worked hard to earn on Balmung. If that doesn't happen, I hate to say it, but chances of us moving are slim.

(06-03-2017, 11:52 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: [ -> ]People are pushing Mateus now, hell I'm pushing Mateus now, but Mateus needs upstarts. It needs to make sure it doesn't get dragged down by one or two FCs trying to lead the server, it needs diversity in RP styles, it needs people. The only way to get people is for new people to head there and give it a try. I've SEEN people from Balmung supporting the endeavors of Mateus, right now, that's really all we can do.

We can lead the horse to water, but we can't make them drink.

I really hope they take this to heart.  I really really do. 

Those upstarts, those "movers and shakers" of the community are vital.  Beyond just bodies you need the event makers, the social collaborators, and your supporting infrastructure.  (Lore keepers, folks to help new folks out, etc) and they need to be redundant and diverse instead of beholden to one or two groups.  That's what makes a community self sufficient and lets it grow beyond it's inception.  All the 'upstarts' that ArmachiA mentions.  The ones that do it because they can, not because someone needed them to.

I'm not going anywhere, but I hope those that do end up with the best community they can have.

Now to the original post.  (It's been a -day- so I'm indulging myself with answering a rant.)

Read post I quoted.  It's important.

Find those upstarts and get them together.  There are incoming and returning people in droves that don't have the ties the active player base does.  Go hit them up.  Find the ones with a spark to create something grand and use that.

Don't complain about people not wanting to move.  That is their choice, not yours, to make. Complaining about someone else's choice tends to make them want to dig in their heels. 

Here is my suggestion to you, OP.  

Go out and create instead of complain.  
Put the elbow grease in and deal with the slow times.  
Good faith, quality effort is often rewarded with results.

Sometimes it sucks and you look at the few people that showed up, but that's how things start.  You keep at it; you keep your feet on the ground; you keep soldiering forward.  

Most importantly though, don't compare yourselves to Balmung.  Compare yourselves to Mateus of yesterday.  

Is it better today then yesterday?  
If yes, AWESOME! Keep going.  
If not, find a way to positively improve what you can. Keep going.

I apologize if this post came off as bashing, as that wasn't my intent at all. I was merely expressing a frustration, as has been mentioned by others, that joining the RP community feels like something you had to pay to do, and that for so long I had been unable to get into the community I wanted to be a part of. Roleplaying is most of why I play these kinds of game, and having the fee to face when I was younger and didn't have the money, and now later seeing the server locked out, is very frustrating. I'm sure for more people than just myself. And yes, I understand the people who worked hard to build balmung and establish themselves aren't going to flee at the first sign of people roleplaying elsewhere, or maybe ever... but having other people come to help a new community could help give it the boost it needs.

Again, I'm sorry if this came off as attacking you, or as offensive. It was not my intent. I just wanted to express my frustration.

I won't post on the subject again.