Hydaelyn Role-Players

(07-01-2013, 08:43 PM)Nikytta Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2013, 08:32 PM)Trickery Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2013, 08:11 PM)Asyria Wrote: [ -> ]The reason membership was closed is to prevent people from joining just to vote and alter the votes of people who have been showing some degree of interest and participation in the community so far.

I understand the reasoning behind closing off registration, but at the same time I think it was somewhat of a foul move, since I don't recall there being any warning that registration would be suspended.

Doing that basically makes this an in house RPC only vote which doesn't take into account anyone else in the "RP community" that this actually supposed to be creating. I'm pretty sure anyone could have told you that Gilgamesh was the RPC favorite going into this, but outside of RPC, on the Beta forums where the rest of the community lies, Gilgamesh wasn't nearly as popular.

Not being able to register has effectively cut off all but two members of my Free Company from voting. That's 20 something votes.

If there was warning of some sort issued, than I retract this statement as it would simply have been my inattentiveness at work and my inability to tell my FC members to register early to ensure their vote.

If there wasn't any warning, though, then I have to cry foul.

If the intended community was purposely supposed to represent the RPC and not any of the members that work outside of it, then have at it. If your intent was to reach ALL RPers though, and not just members of the club, then I think you went about this wrong.

Well said. For such an important poll that would be in the interest of more than just the RPC RPers, to basically deny them the right to have their say damages the legitimacy of this whole endeavor.

Since the poll is regarding this RPC's support of another server only those who actually use the RPc should be worried about it.

There was ample warning about the vote.

And the reason why it's closed to non-RPC folks... is what Aysun said.
And why would RPC members hold a vote including everyone else not in it? It's like Canadians voting for the U.S.A. president. Sure we all live in North America but it wouldn't make sense!
The RPC supports its members, not the whole FF XIV community at large.

Besides, everyone would rather play with their friends and acquaintances rather than with strangers, no?

We could have waited to get more members, but people wanted an early vote due to phase 4 coming fast and phase 4 characters staying around for launch.

As I said before though, this whole thing is just for people to know what name to click on to play with other RPers. That's really all there is to it.

People love to have a say though, it's perfectly natural.
I'm just weird in that I rather a server be arbitrarily chosen just so I know where to roll. o_O

(07-01-2013, 08:49 PM)Aysun Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2013, 08:43 PM)Nikytta Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2013, 08:32 PM)Trickery Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2013, 08:11 PM)Asyria Wrote: [ -> ]The reason membership was closed is to prevent people from joining just to vote and alter the votes of people who have been showing some degree of interest and participation in the community so far.

I understand the reasoning behind closing off registration, but at the same time I think it was somewhat of a foul move, since I don't recall there being any warning that registration would be suspended.

Doing that basically makes this an in house RPC only vote which doesn't take into account anyone else in the "RP community" that this actually supposed to be creating. I'm pretty sure anyone could have told you that Gilgamesh was the RPC favorite going into this, but outside of RPC, on the Beta forums where the rest of the community lies, Gilgamesh wasn't nearly as popular.

Not being able to register has effectively cut off all but two members of my Free Company from voting. That's 20 something votes.

If there was warning of some sort issued, than I retract this statement as it would simply have been my inattentiveness at work and my inability to tell my FC members to register early to ensure their vote.

If there wasn't any warning, though, then I have to cry foul.

If the intended community was purposely supposed to represent the RPC and not any of the members that work outside of it, then have at it. If your intent was to reach ALL RPers though, and not just members of the club, then I think you went about this wrong.

Well said. For such an important poll that would be in the interest of more than just the RPC RPers, to basically deny them the right to have their say damages the legitimacy of this whole endeavor.

Since the poll is regarding this RPC's support of another server only those who actually use the RPc should be worried about it.

I think at this point, its you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. No one is going to please everybody, it's too difficult and too stressful imo. Everyone should just relax, and step back and understand both sides and position. No one has it easy here, no one. And far as I'm concerned, until I have A LOT more information to go with, I'm riding out the storm. I do have alot of events and storylines in my mind, on top of doing raiding, PVE and setting up to prepare all new folks some help as need be, while still learning everything myself. That's what I'm looking forward to on Balmung or wherever. So relax, think of Rydia or Balthier or... I dunno this guy

(07-01-2013, 06:32 PM)Uther Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2013, 06:00 PM)Momoni Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2013, 05:49 PM)Rhio Wrote: [ -> ]Right.  The real purpose of this vote is determining whether there are enough people to make having a second unofficial server worthwhile, since the vast majority of folks are going to Balmung, including people on Gilgamesh right now.  And that's a lot of cool people.  Also me.

My issue is - none of what anyone else is saying(moderators included) is what the admin is saying. He's made a clear stance that this is a Balmung centric site, and that anybody that disagrees can leave. No suggestions, no opinions, nothing. Discontent is met with a door and that's not fair.

I don't have hopes for the community under that leadership, so I'll be sticking with Gilgamesh despite people leaving the server eventually.

You've been here one day and you're already trying to call out leadership. 

Lemme break this down one last time. I spoke to the leadership. That literally happened - the Gilgamesh thread is there for you to read from. I made valid points, and the admin dismissed them after telling me "there's the door". My complaint, then, at being dismissed and push away after making both valid points and addressing legitimate concerns, is also valid. Saying "you're starting shit" boggles my mind.

because I'm not the person you've been dealing with. (this is for everyone else too telling me I'm some evil aggressor because I don't agree with this or that point.) I'm not the people. I'm entirely new, but I've been called this and that and condescended first. I didn't come in throwing punches - I came in and asked a simple question and was told I was rude for it.

Stop treating me like someone else. I'm not them. I'm new. Just because I'm saying something similar to them doesn't make me them and doesn't validate you judging me like them. That's uncalled for, rude, and invalidates every self righteous comment about 'aggressors' and 'being mean'.

I came here to address points and concerns, and was attacked. And continue to be attacked as the bad person by a community that's telling me it's totally composed of good people.

Quote:Of course this is a Balmung centric site. The leadership didn't say "we play on Balmung, so everyone has to play on Balmung!" There just happens to be a significant RP population on that server. If you want to RP somewhere else, no one will stop you, but don't be surprised if no one joins you either.

No, but they sell themselves as a hub. Which is my big issue with how the admin runs things. He made sure to make a point(Gilgamesh thread, again), that this site is the first google result when searching for FF14 RP. He made sure to let everyone know that with this poll, it is being done because of the demand, not because he wants to and that he will emphasize Balmung.

He's telling me, and you. All of us. That this site will hold a sort of authority, because of its easy ability to be found, and that he wants to use that authority to promote what he wants while pretending the site is an RP hub. It's sold that way. In fact, one moderator was confused as to why it was openly considered a hub when she wanted it to be server centric, another didn't see why it would be a centric place when it served as a hub.(Gilgamesh thread), so no, my complaint that nobody(moderators anyways) agrees with what he's saying is also valid.

Quote:I've had my fair share of complaints with some of the policies and tendencies of this site, but all-in-all they're doing their best, and whenever I complain I do so from a reasonable and educated standpoint. I didn't show up Day 1 and say we need new leadership because there are too many people who want to play together or whatever the hell you're rambling about. 

I never said we needed new leadership. I said "why not include everyone" and was told "too many people", so I said "get more moderators" and it all broke down. This degraded from me asking a question. I didn't come in, shooting guns at everyone. I was never the bad guy. You, as they did, have attacked me on sight.

Quote:NO ONE has ever said that you have to play on Balmung. You're looking for enemies where there aren't any. I've read your posts on this thread and the Gilgamesh thread, and it's pretty irritating how obvious it is that you're looking to pick a fight.

But it's been heavily implied that you won't have a community to support you if you don't. You've misinterpreted everything you've read about me. As I said to another person - context is important. Follow it, if you need me to stop and explain something to you I can but attacking me? That's not fair.

Quote:I never read anywhere that anyone who doesn't want to play on Balmung has to leave. You need to re-read what Kylin wrote. He said if you don't like the site you can start your own. He also admitted that most of the RP community plays on Balmung, and that's why it's the site's primary focus. That's it. Logically, if everyone was being forced to play on Balmung, why would there be a poll gauging interest of people who specifically do not want to play on Balmung?

I made valid points. All of which you misinterpreted completely. I said valid things, and his response was to tell me to make my own website. He showed me the door when I brought up valid issues. That's not fair, that's deflecting, that's saying "yeah, those are probably true, but I don't care because I have my website"

So, basically you are angry because the RPC wants to support one server as the unofficial server in an effort to keep the RP community together.

When this poll is over, if someone joins the RPC and says they want to play on a non-legacy server, we can say: join x server, they should have some people RPing there. So vote on your favorite name of a server! People from any server have always been able post their events, post their linkshells... But the majority of the RPC plays on Balmung, so of course we're going to recommend there first.

Me:

(07-01-2013, 09:02 PM)Momoni Wrote: [ -> ]I came in and asked a simple question and was told I was rude for it.

I thought we cleared this up...

(07-01-2013, 09:02 PM)Momoni Wrote: [ -> ]He's telling me, and you. All of us. That this site will hold a sort of authority, because of its easy ability to be found, and that he wants to use that authority to promote what he wants while pretending the site is an RP hub.

1) That's just the nature of the internet. There are really no other RP sites for FFXIV, so naturally this is the one that comes up, and thus the one people will go to.

2) To be fair, Balmung (then Besaid) was voted on, just like this poll here, by the community at the time. So to say this is what "he" wanted is a bit "unfair", as you put it.

Momoni, your concerns have been read and noted. And I see you've already voted. So how about you go make a post in the Welcome Desk and actually introduce yourself?

The rest of you, just go back to spectating. Thanks!

Hey, Momoni. Off topic, but are you Squirtle from SWTOR on Jung-Ma? Imperial?

(07-01-2013, 09:10 PM)Aysun Wrote: [ -> ]So, basically you are angry because the RPC wants to support one server as the unofficial server in an effort to keep the RP community together.

When this poll is over, if someone joins the RPC and says they want to play on a non-legacy server, we can say: join x server, they should have some people RPing there. So vote on your favorite name of a server! People from any server have always been able post their events, post their linkshells... But the majority of the RPC plays on Balmung, so of course we're going to recommend there first.

Me:

Almost.
I'm saying a poll shouldn't be used to decree something as unofficial. I said(if you read the Gilgamesh thread), a poll should be used to gauge interest and anything within a relevant statistic(known as statistical significance)(15%) should be given a voice.

From there, if you use the RPC as an RP hub, you give that community a place where people can meet.

I addressed points of community togetherness, and how people don't need 100's or 1000's of people around to enjoy RP. Nobody has needed that for over 10 years, since MSN group chat shut down. People are just as happy with 20 as they are with 100.

I noted that communities within communities(with a context ill explain) don't work. What this means, in the way I'm saying it, is that in large RP communities(WoW, and for those old enough to remember, teenchat, eyechat, msn groups, rpghost) will gain groups/guilds/kingdoms/clans, and these will conflict. In normal RP(the last few) it's not an issue for your character to die. In groups like WoW guilds, guilds don't want to adhere to rules like this, and will harass others while refusing to be treated as an entity that can be challenged.

It breeds elitism and dissonance, and more often then not communities will RP within their guilds as opposed to with other people(invalidating the idea that keeping the community together is even necessary).

When you reach this point of understanding how RP communities work closing them into one area is known as a bad idea, because they will separate into their own states. Letting people flourish where they want without this potential harassment and inevitable elitism, while giving them a voice if they reach statistical significance, is both valid and healthy.

Condemning that while calling yourself a hub for role play is what results in things like we have now - fractures. I noted this and told the moderators that they need to adapt to these things, not overlook them or ignore them. They need to adapt and survive, or centralize their advertisement away from a role play hub and into a balmung only forum - otherwise the community will decay and die. That is inevitable.

Three years under your belt doesn't make you immortal.

(07-01-2013, 09:16 PM)Kylin Wrote: [ -> ]Momoni, your concerns have been read and noted. And I see you've already voted. So how about you go make a post in the Welcome Desk and actually introduce yourself?

The rest of you, just go back to spectating. Thanks!

(07-01-2013, 09:14 PM)Averis Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2013, 09:02 PM)Momoni Wrote: [ -> ]I came in and asked a simple question and was told I was rude for it.

I thought we cleared this up...

(07-01-2013, 09:02 PM)Momoni Wrote: [ -> ]He's telling me, and you. All of us. That this site will hold a sort of authority, because of its easy ability to be found, and that he wants to use that authority to promote what he wants while pretending the site is an RP hub.

1) That's just the nature of the internet. There are really no other RP sites for FFXIV, so naturally this is the one that comes up, and thus the one people will go to.

2) To be fair, Balmung (then Besaid) was voted on, just like this poll here, by the community at the time. So to say this is what "he" wanted is a bit "unfair", as you put it.

I am not trying to hold it against you, but it appears that an opposing opinion is consistently seen as something evil. Instead of being treated as an individual, I'm treated as some other person or group or people that I've never even met.

(07-01-2013, 09:16 PM)Kylin Wrote: [ -> ]Momoni, your concerns have been read and noted. And I see you've already voted. So how about you go make a post in the Welcome Desk and actually introduce yourself?

The rest of you, just go back to spectating. Thanks!

I am passionate about what I've said. You say my points were noted - but I felt deflected because, well, you brushed me off. I feel what I've said, while carrying an abrasive tone after everything that happened in the Gilgamesh thread, is still valid.

What my passion means is that I care - about enjoying RP and others enjoying RP. My experience has taught me that there's idealistic self righteousness in RP and there's realism. I care, and if that gets me banned because I've targeted you, well, it's not fine but we both know all you have to do is prove my points wrong, accept them as valid without telling me to go make my own forum or, ideally, adapt the site into a true RP hub or server specific site, and I'd gladly wander off.

But I came here knowing, also from experience, that there was just as likely a chance that I'd be banned for my first post, as I would be not banned. So it is not something that I've spent a lot of time worrying about. As long as I'm heard, the idea exists for a better future as I see it.

(07-01-2013, 09:17 PM)DimmerMeerkat Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, Momoni. Off topic, but are you Squirtle from SWTOR on Jung-Ma? Imperial?

I am not. o.o

(07-01-2013, 08:39 PM)Jayce Lightfall Wrote: [ -> ]Please refer to - http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2227

Especially note Regarding A Non-Legacy RP Server. Everyone had ample warning of registration restrictions.

Quote:The public poll will last 24 hours and be heavily moderated to ensure there is no cheating (multiple accounts, etc). User registration will likely be at least partially restricted.

"Likely be partially restricted" and "Killed off completely" are two different beasts.

Then again, none of this really matters if the following is true:

(07-01-2013, 08:49 PM)Aysun Wrote: [ -> ]Since the poll is regarding this RPC's support of another server only those who actually use the RPc should be worried about it.

If this is solely an in club vote, like I suspected anyway, then you all have fun with it.

I'll be splitting time between Balmung and Behemoth anyway, so I don't really have a horse in this race 'cause I was planning on doing that regardless of the vote results. The registration freeze just seemed to needlessly cut off non-RPC members from having a say in an unofficial server, but seeing as that seems to be the intent anyway, carry on.

P.S. This isn't intended as hate against RPC being exclusionist or anything, I just think it's somewhat shortsighted for a website trying to promote a cohesive RP community. I still like the site, like what you guys do, and I plan to stick around to RP with you all. I'm just against the nature of this poll.

Best case scenario, Yoshi just squashes the whole thing and announces RP servers.

Gather around all you kids im going to sing you a song. 
~sings~ OHHHHHHH there was once a vote to pick a role playing sever and all went well so farrrrrrr but little they know conflict was ahead an all trolls came flocking to the theardddddddd!
I jest by the way <3

Gilgamesh needs shades. 

(07-01-2013, 09:25 PM)Trickery Wrote: [ -> ]Best case scenario, Yoshi just squashes the whole thing and announces RP servers.

I doubt it, they got enough on their plate as is - I think naming a server the RP one isn't really what they intend to do, especially since sometimes it can be a good or bad thing. We'll see though but by P4, its decision time.