Hydaelyn Role-Players

Edit: Gwuh, did I post this in the wrong section? Apologies in advance!

As much as I'd like to make this out into some kind of auction-house styled post, I would much rather get to the point as soon as I am done wasting time on this sentence.

Hi! The common moniker is Reppu! But not a sword, or a bag. The reason why I am here today, aside from continuing to observe the "FFXIV Roleplaying Community", is to simply put a question out here my and my odd number of fellows have been asking each other;

'What server should we play on?'

While this is a null-and-void question depending on if we ever get an official RP server, I try to avoid banking on 'what ifs'. Thusly, I am here today as a representative of a small (10 or so?) roleplayers of varying degrees of experience (ranging from seven months to fourteen years) trying to find a place to buckle down.

Now, I have been silently observing the debate between Balmung (Legacy) and Gilgamesh (2.0), and I have noticed something I think is a common misconception on both sides, that I would like to clear up through some personal research and just actually asking the question as needed;

"4chan is joining Gilgamesh!"

This is actually not quite true, at least not in the way many people believe. /vg/, specifically, is mostly joining Ultros, with a splinter group joining Cactuar. If anyone from 4chan is joining Gilgamesh, they're not from /vg/, which means they're from /v/.

And if they're from /v/, who are adamantly poisoned against FFXIV and would like nothing more than to see it's utter doom? Well...

Moving on from that, this is just me wanting to offer a bit of clarification on the subject that I am under knowledge of seeing as a sort of falsehood, at least from public knowledge you can get by simply visiting /vg/.

Now, if I'm wrong and there's proof stating /vg/ or, unfortunately, /v/ are going to Gilgamesh? Do correct me!

As such, from what I have personally gathered, Balmung was the 'original' Roleplaying Server, a community vote to unite the scattered roleplayers, and then some people decided they wanted a Non-Legacy option. While it's unfortunate the community has split again, I don't really want to be split between it! Thus why we're looking for our 'home', today!

To this, I would like to voice my personal concerns, gather clarification from any parties willing to offer it, and then hopefully come to a decision within the next day or two so I know where we're hunkering down. As such...



~Balmung~
As the originally voted roleplaying server, Balmung seems to be poised to boast an overall smaller population, but a larger concentration and server percentage of roleplayers. As a legacy server, Balmung is expected to have some economical chaos until things settled down, as well as having people with higher-level characters right out of the gates. Both are short-term 'issues' and can largely be ignored.

Balmung's perks from a roleplaying point of view are a concentration of veterans who can offer much insight on Eorzea, and FFXIV as a whole. These are people who, largely, weathered the storm and are passionate about getting back into things. An established community, composed of people who originally were passionate enough to unite the roleplayers of FFXIV once before. As such, there is no denying the passion of the 1.0 crew here.

Balmung's perks from a mechanical point of view are having veterans of FFXIV who are also avid roleplayers, meaning that there's no lack of people who want to play the game, as much as they want to roleplay in the game. There is also a -far- less likely chance of being 'trolled out of immersion'.

Balmung's flaws from a mechanical point of view will largely be the level diversity causing a bit of a hiccup at first. It is also worth noting the early-gil influx will make it pretty much hell on Non-Legacy characters if this is abused in any remote way, but this is also still just a minor, short-term issue.

More likely is Balmung will have a higher concentration of Arcanists, due to Legacy players no doubt wanting to add three more 50's to their rosters, and thusly there will be a -huge- lack of server diversity for some time. This is probably the biggest 'flaw'.

Balmung's flaws from a roleplaying point of view is the 'Veteran Syndrome', as I'm going to coin it. There's the realistic, but not guaranteed, chance of 'heroes of light' using this status as a way to lord over those who were not present for a giant dragon kicking people around. Not only is this an annoying thing to consider, it's toxic.

However, this same thing can be taken as a perk if it is not used to lord over people. In the end, due to a 'mighty' 5 year gap between, both sides would be considered the same generation of heroes. Just, one side has a bit more experience and got roasted by a really angry dragon. The 'mentoring' aspect can be a rather charming roleplaying experience, if used responsibly.

The potentially 'biggest' flaw for Balmung in both a roleplaying -and- mechanical point of view, is the population size. I, personally, would like to hit the ground running and get my own thing going with my fellows. I tend to be oft thrust into a leadership position, and I do plan on weaving an experience for people to enjoy. As such, I also have no lacking of people wanting to experience the game, from it's casual first steps, to it's 'hardcore' endgame. As such, wanting to establish a 'new brand' on Balmung will likely be a -lot- more difficult. But, roleplayers who just so happen to want to raid is my goal!

Of course we'd be willing to tip our hats into a company with a similar mindset. Boy would I be happy not being a pillar of leadership again!

In the end, Balmung offers stability, but less opportunity?



~Gilgamesh~

Let's just start this right off...

Gilgamesh's roleplaying perks are very obvious; a new beginning, and a chance to firmly root yourself in the community. You will have little to no difficulty getting your 'own thing' going, due to all of the new players and a lack of 'bonds' already formed.

Gilgamesh's mechanical perks are being able to grow with the server economy, a much larger diversity of classes due to everyone starting from scratch, and a TON of people making it easier to recruit people and get things going.

And now, we bring out the bat.

Gilgamesh's roleplaying flaws are the concentrated percentage of roleplayers will (likely?) be significantly lower than Balmung, to the point that 'open world' RP may very well be a dead dream. This is not to suggest that Reddit (who are only guilty of being silly, not really toxic) will 'troll' people out, and the unfounded '4chan is going to come to Gilgamesh!' rumors, have anything to do with this.

It's simply a fact there are no lacking number of groups vying to 'claim' Gilgamesh. There will be a 'war', and it's hard to say if it will end peacefully, or settle into a friendly stability. Ultimately, Gilgamesh's biggest flaw in a roleplaying point of view is that roleplaying will be a lot more difficult in a public manner. And roleplaying kept behind the veil, is a bad habit roleplayers desperately need to break from.

Gilgamesh's mechanical flaws are mostly focused on the population; Server lockouts need to be considered, and 'fierce competition' to the point of toxic levels is common on the bigger MMO servers. Beyond this, you can't really 'guess' too many mechanical problems for Gilgamesh. If there is one to keep note of, the diverse population will be a bit more dangerous for roleplaying companies with raiding pursuits. You'll likely have to comb your recruits a bit more to ensure you won't have a toxic mishap.

In the end, Gilgamesh offers opportunity, but less stability?



~In Conclusion~

Now, all of this is just my formed opinions based off what I've read! So, in conclusion, I will state what we are looking for, and leave those who are willing to offer their two cents, to do so.

What we want: To roleplay, and to play the game.

To be more specific from such a generic thing to say, we're looking to firmly root ourselves in the roleplaying community, and help push it to be the best it can be, if it's not already at this point. We don't want to be 'lost in the crowd', but we're not vying to steal the spotlight as well. We want to be part of a 'family', as it were. The less resistance, the better. It shouldn't be a chore or a job to make sure roleplaying flourishes, it should be fun!

For the gameplay side of things, to experience the story yourself is far better than just watching a video of reading a blurb. As such, be it casually pushed or as hardcore as possible, we want to see what the game has to offer, from the smallest 4 man to the largest 24 man. Content is to be devoured. The more like-minded individuals who also love to roleplay, the better.

So, for ten or so individuals, few legacy, most not, what would you suggest?

Thank you for your time, and see you in Eorzea!

I'll reply proper when I get home, but I wanted to say two things.

First, thank you for detailing the differences between the servers in a detailed, yet neutral way. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

Second, the original post has provided a neutral tone. Please, *please* do not let this degenerate into something ugly. Play nice everyone. ;-)

...I'll add a full reply when I get home about you should join us on Gilgamesh when I get home later. ^^

I do not feel the economy will has as huge an impact on Balmung as it is perceived.  In addition, all dungeons released in the beta so far have had level syncs to the correct level as well as the duty finder for cross server dungeon raiding.  I also do not truly understand this "wall" people see about Balmung.  Especially in the RP side of things.  Other then that, you have summed up things rather well.

Personally for me, I would suggest Balmung, but that's where I am from and can be considered bias.  In the end, it will be your own choice to make.  I strongly urge you however to make sure you look at facts rather then misty statements or half truths.  If you are unsure of a point, seek clarification from several of the members here.

I think this was very well laid out and (hopefully) not offensive to either "side" as it were. Coming from another non-veteran player, these are a lot of the same feelings I've been having.

I recently decided that I'm going to be starting my own Free Company. Its already going through tweaking and organization, and its going to be a lot of work. But I've always enjoyed being a leader, and honestly I get frustrated when I'm in groups with officers/leaders who don't make things fun and get too serious. So what do I do? I make what I want to see.

So the big question was: What server should I make it on? I was originally pulled to Gilgamesh for reasons you stated, it will be a lot easier to start things fresh and actually get a few people to have fun with me. But the more I thought about it, the more I leaned towards Balmung.

There are going to be some problems, but like you said a lot of them are going to be temporary. Maybe it'll be a little difficult for us to break into something already established, but I believe in the long run its a better foundation. For all I know, my Free Company could be just me for six months. But its what I want to do, and I'm not going to let "What Ifs" stop me from having my brand of fun.

Once the game goes live, I plan on making contact with the veteran groups and facilitating cross-group RP. To me that's a way of integrating old with new. We're all here to have fun, so I for one am going to put my stock in Balmung.

Not to say I fault anyone for choosing Gilgamesh. I ABSOLUTELY see the appeal. Especially as a leader of a little fledgling group of nothing at the moment. I seriously hope the best for every single person on Gilgamesh. I have seen some of their dedication for their server, and its something to be admired.

So coming from a non-legacy player: I'm going to be on Balmung.

I hope you and the others with you find the place for you. You sound like an awesome person, and probably pretty fun to play with. Best of luck on making the decision for you.

(08-06-2013, 04:53 PM)Nel Celestine Wrote: [ -> ]I do not feel the economy will has as huge an impact on Balmung as it is perceived.  In addition, all dungeons released in the beta so far have had level syncs to the correct level as well as the duty finder for cross server dungeon raiding.  I also do not truly understand this "wall" people see about Balmung.  Especially in the RP side of things.  Other then that, you have summed up things rather well.

Personally for me, I would suggest Balmung, but that's where I am from and can be considered bias.  In the end, it will be your own choice to make.  I strongly urge you however to make sure you look at facts rather then misty statements or half truths.  If you are unsure of a point, seek clarification from several of the members here.

I did note that the economical 'chaos' will be short-term, and isn't considered a flaw besides an initial barrier. It's hard pressed to deny the early gil influx will not cause a little... hilarity. But it should not have any long-term impacts unless I am VASTLY underestimating the amount of gil on Balmung.

The 'wall' you've mentioned, that I may have alluded to (did I?), is simply a case of, in roleplaying? Many people wish to stand out, and this can sometimes mean lording advantages over people. As I noted, this is a 'what if', and is definitely -not- a fact. I obviously am incapable of knowing how many, if any, of Balmung's population will swing their 'hero of light' stick at me.

In the end, it's a potential, neutral-minded set I came to post in. If I only posted positives, I'd honestly get no answers.

(08-06-2013, 04:57 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]I did note that the economical 'chaos' will be short-term, and isn't considered a flaw besides an initial barrier. It's hard pressed to deny the early gil influx will not cause a little... hilarity. But it should not have any long-term impacts unless I am VASTLY underestimating the amount of gil on Balmung.

The 'wall' you've mentioned, that I may have alluded to (did I?), is simply a case of, in roleplaying? Many people wish to stand out, and this can sometimes mean lording advantages over people. As I noted, this is a 'what if', and is definitely -not- a fact. I obviously am incapable of knowing how many, if any, of Balmung's population will swing their 'hero of light' stick at me.

In the end, it's a potential, neutral-minded set I came to post in. If I only posted positives, I'd honestly get no answers.

I can totally understand that concern. I'd like to mention however that many of us here, at least those whom I am aware of, are planning not to use this "hero of light" stick. If anything, we would be more then willing to accept any new players that wanted to say that they were at the battle in character and time skipped with the others. Legacy Tattoo in game or not makes no difference in actual RP.

(08-06-2013, 04:38 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]So, for ten or so individuals, few legacy, most not, what would you suggest?

I think the "safest" response anyone can give at this point is to try them both. As disheartening it is to not give a nice an clear answer, this is the best we can give. At this point it isn't really a good idea for either side to say which one to go with as it sparks too much debate.

For me the answer's simple. As with every past MMO I've joined, I go with the server with the highest concentration of role-players. I really don't see this idea that the established role-players on any server will somehow limit any new player or group from gaining a foothold. And, really, what foothold would that be? This isn't a competition. There isn't some kind of limit to how much someone can RP. If someone is bothering your RP, as with anything, go to another corner then, you don't have to go to another server cause you'll find potential resistance anywhere, especially on a server with a lower RP population. There are a LOT of players on these servers. There is plenty of room for everyone and all types of role-players to exist and do their thing. But the best part about being together is, like we are all together on this single site, we CAN mingle and find each other new and old to play with when we want to get our legs more wet.

Just keep in mind that the old players are already very much outnumbered, maybe not on this site, but certainly on the server itself. Beside the fact that none of them here have EVER given any inclination to stifle anyone's plans or desires to make their own way, I think there will be plenty of room for everyone and I'm not worried.

(08-06-2013, 04:38 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]Edit: Gwuh, did I post this in the wrong section? Apologies in advance!

No worries~
You're all set now.

Cheers for your post. It was very neutral, no sides taken, and has managed not to upset me as most of these topics do. xDD So kudos and thank you for being tactful!

I'm also speaking with bias, as my home has been Besaid/Balmung from the get-go, however looking at it from an outsider's point of view I still see perks. More roleplayers in one place means more RP, which is why so many of us are passionate about keeping the RPers united on Balmung, to the point of rudeness at times (o/).

I have quite a few friends who are new and are starting with us on Balmung, as well as many returning ones. I think that the environment we've created is welcoming and open to new RPers because we WANT new RPers. More people, more connections, more potentially awesome RP. If we wanted to RP with the same old people (the same "cliques") all the time, we could go hide in our established LS's and close recruitment off. But we don't. We want this new blood, we want to RP with them, and if they desire it, we are glad to help them with their characters and the lore, to help them level, to progress WITH them through the content, as the legacy characters still have to re-do all the content in ARR.. hell, many of us are even starting our characters over ourselves (I'll be playing an 'alt' of my character so that I can re-experience and relearn my jobs while not missing out on RP, and doing content on my main version of her x3). Plus, many of the posters you see with join dates in 2010 left the game shortly after release, or played on and off during the time when 1.0 was up, so this is as new to them as any of the new members.

On the opportunity side of things, and the ability to make your own mark: there are very few "established" linkshells that are making the transition from 1.0 to ARR, to be honest. Most of the linkshells at the end of 1.0 were dead, so there are plenty of niches to fill as far as LS's go. I think TALE and Crystalline were two of the like.. three still active RPLS's at the end of 1.0. XD So I still see plenty of opportunity on Balmung.

I hope that you're able to make a decision you're happy with, whichever you choose. Both servers would welcome you and your group with open arms, no doubt about it.

(08-06-2013, 05:07 PM)Averis Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-06-2013, 04:38 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]So, for ten or so individuals, few legacy, most not, what would you suggest?

I think the "safest" response anyone can give at this point is to try them both. As disheartening it is to not give a nice an clear answer, this is the best we can give. At this point it isn't really a good idea for either side to say which one to go with as it sparks too much debate.

For me the answer's simple. As with every past MMO I've joined, I go with the server with the highest concentration of role-players. I really don't see this idea that the established role-players on any server will somehow limit any new player or group from gaining a foothold. And, really, what foothold would that be? This isn't a competition. There isn't some kind of limit to how much someone can RP. If someone is bothering your RP, as with anything, go to another corner then, you don't have to go to another server cause you'll find potential resistance anywhere, especially on a server with a lower RP population. There are a LOT of players on these servers. There is plenty of room for everyone and all types of role-players to exist and do their thing. But the best part about being together is, like we are all together on this single site, we CAN mingle and find each other new and old to play with when we want to get our legs more wet.

Just keep in mind that the old players are already very much outnumbered, maybe not on this site, but certainly on the server itself. Beside the fact that none of them here have EVER given any inclination to stifle anyone's plans or desires to make their own way, I think there will be plenty of room for everyone and I'm not worried.

The only perceived flaw with trying both is wasting Open Beta -and- Early Access time, which can be useful on Balmung.

However, if I do this, I may opt to use Open Beta and Early Access on Balmung, just to have the needed levels, and keep an eye on Gilgamesh post these two. Although 'wasting' these is a shame either way.

That said, the advice is appreciated! As is everyone's, even if I don't immediately respond to it! I just like to hit priorities as needed.

Happy to provide clarification as someone who doesn't give two shits about the server divide.

(08-06-2013, 04:38 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]Balmung's flaws from a mechanical point of view will largely be the level diversity causing a bit of a hiccup at first. It is also worth noting the early-gil influx will make it pretty much hell on Non-Legacy characters if this is abused in any remote way, but this is also still just a minor, short-term issue.

There's a system in place to prevent the level gap from becoming a huge issue. The Level Sync system is automatically in place, and enforced in any group content that involves it's own instance.

For the FATE system (the events out in the world), there's a cutoff point. Above a certain level range (I believe it's 12 above the event), the character in question can not contribute to the progress of the event, and will therefore get no reward. They must sync down to the event's level in order to actually effect anything (and don't worry about critter availability. They spawn like mad during FATEs).

As for the economy, everyone who was around for 1.0 has been made poorer. They went ahead and lopped off a zero from the end of our money totals, and gil is not in short supply with regular questing on a new character.

That in mind, this observation also assumes there will be no new people on Balmung. There will. They outnumber the old folks, at this point.

(08-06-2013, 04:38 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]More likely is Balmung will have a higher concentration of Arcanists, due to Legacy players no doubt wanting to add three more 50's to their rosters, and thusly there will be a -huge- lack of server diversity for some time. This is probably the biggest 'flaw'.

This assumes too much without hard data. There'll be a ton of Acranists in general, because it's a new class. And again, with the above statement on group content, you're not going to have to worry about this to any kind of degree. People want their shit done, and they can't just bring their max-level anything into a dungeon and steamroll it, so they're forced to play "right".

The other bit this assumption ignores is the part where you can just flop class any time. Server Diversity is a non-issue when it comes to classes in this game.

(08-06-2013, 04:38 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]Balmung's flaws from a roleplaying point of view is the 'Veteran Syndrome', as I'm going to coin it. There's the realistic, but not guaranteed, chance of 'heroes of light' using this status as a way to lord over those who were not present for a giant dragon kicking people around. Not only is this an annoying thing to consider, it's toxic.

Let's talk about how this isn't gonna work. Like from a lore perspective.

The Warriors of Light is a term used to talk about the people present at Carteneau. That's it. They're called that because whenever someone attempts to remember the people who were at the battle, at the moment the fighting was going on, they appear as blotted out silhouettes, as if the sun were behind them. That's not to say that no one remembers these people prior to the actual fighting, and moment of time-skip, just that your average person knows that people went to fight Garlea, and shit went down. We don't know who these people were. Think of them as Unknown Soldiers.

With that said, being a time-skipper confers no actual status. Nobody knows who they were, so nobody's gonna celebrate them when they come back. These people aren't gonna be able to claim hero status. If they try to, they were douchebags to begin with.

(08-06-2013, 04:38 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]The potentially 'biggest' flaw for Balmung in both a roleplaying -and- mechanical point of view, is the population size. I, personally, would like to hit the ground running and get my own thing going with my fellows. I tend to be oft thrust into a leadership position, and I do plan on weaving an experience for people to enjoy. As such, I also have no lacking of people wanting to experience the game, from it's casual first steps, to it's 'hardcore' endgame. As such, wanting to establish a 'new brand' on Balmung will likely be a -lot- more difficult. But, roleplayers who just so happen to want to raid is my goal!

Of course we'd be willing to tip our hats into a company with a similar mindset. Boy would I be happy not being a pillar of leadership again!

In the end, Balmung offers stability, but less opportunity?

This is also flawed, but again, because of a lack of information, not because you're a jerk (you might be. I'm a jerk. Who knows.)

You're assuming that anybody from 1.0 actually knows what the fuck. We don't. I'm one of those people, and I can tell you that this landscape is entirely alien to me, the mechanics are new, there's new equipment, new places, new everything. The world I played in is largely gone. We'll all be venturing into this world for the first time. The only difference is that I have to learn my shit all at once, and you get to do it gradually.

With that in mind, there's nothing stopping anyone from getting their own thing going anywhere. Also, you're not establishing a new brand in regards to roleplayers who do end-game shit. They're all over the place. Some of us even do that shit IC. I don't like to pitch (really. Really hate it.) but you and me should talk further, so as not to derail your thread here.

So. There's no shortage of opportunity on Balmung. No more so than anywhere else. An established system is not a closed system. Remember that.


Now, let's talk about Gilgamesh, in the light of all that I've gone over. We have, essentially, the same climate in both (people tend to forget that Legacy characters were offered transfers. You'll find Legacy folks on Gilgamesh. I guarantee it.) servers.

Everyone is starting out new. Everyone. You're going to have a big Arcanist population, simply because it's a new class, and everyone likes new shit. You're going to have some economic issues with the old-guard transferring over, and the common troubles with a "new" economic system.

The bottom line of all this is: You and yours should go wherever you see the most appealing roleplaying organizations. Skim our list of 'shells and Free Companies, find some that you dig, and talk to people. Ultimately, the choice of server counts for precisely jack shit, as you're gonna get about the same experience on both. They both host a healthy population (and a healthy population of roleplayers. Mr. Sandbourne has gone to some great lengths to foster and advocate for the Gilgamesh folks), they're both going to have growing pains, and they're both going to have their share of asshats and cockmoppets that will try to ruin your fun.

It's the internet. It's all the same shade of terrible/awesome.

(08-06-2013, 04:57 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]The 'wall' you've mentioned, that I may have alluded to (did I?), is simply a case of, in roleplaying? Many people wish to stand out, and this can sometimes mean lording advantages over people. As I noted, this is a 'what if', and is definitely -not- a fact. I obviously am incapable of knowing how many, if any, of Balmung's population will swing their 'hero of light' stick at me.

But here's the thing, what does it matter what some people are role-playing? It's not like EITHER server is going to be in perfect RP harmony. The fact that we have a server split as is is proof of that. We all know (those that have past RP experience) that there are role-players we can't click with. That's natural. It will happen on Gilgamesh and it will be on Balmung.

Sure there are some older players that have their "thing", but they will always have that "thing", JUST like you and your 10 friends have their "thing". That's just how people and groups work. It's the same fear when joining a guild that you might worry that they might not notice your or accept you because they already know each other. That's a micro version of what this server deal is about. But there are already a bunch of new guilds with all new players on Balmung doing their thing whether they mesh with the old or not. Nothing is stopping them.

Say you and your 10 friends started an LS, how would you feel if people didn't want to join because you all already know each other?

(08-06-2013, 05:16 PM)Shuck Wrote: [ -> ]Now, let's talk about Gilgamesh, in the light of all that I've gone over. We have, essentially, the same climate in both (people tend to forget that Legacy characters were offered transfers. You'll find Legacy folks on Gilgamesh. I guarantee it.) servers.

Legacy characters could only transfer to other Legacy servers, not the non-Legacy servers. While I suspect that this will change in future, at the moment we're confined to Legacy servers.

(08-06-2013, 05:16 PM)Averis Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-06-2013, 04:57 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]The 'wall' you've mentioned, that I may have alluded to (did I?), is simply a case of, in roleplaying? Many people wish to stand out, and this can sometimes mean lording advantages over people. As I noted, this is a 'what if', and is definitely -not- a fact. I obviously am incapable of knowing how many, if any, of Balmung's population will swing their 'hero of light' stick at me.

But here's the thing, what does it matter what some people are role-playing? It's not like EITHER server is going to be in perfect RP harmony. The fact that we have a server split as is is proof of that. We all know (those that have past RP experience) that there are role-players we can't click with. That's natural. It will happen on Gilgamesh and it will be on Balmung.

Sure there are some older players that have their "thing", but they will always have that "thing", JUST like you and your 10 friends have their "thing". That's just how people and groups work. It's the same fear when joining a guild that you might worry that they might not notice your or accept you because they already know each other. That's a micro version of what this server deal is about. But there are already a bunch of new guilds with all new players on Balmung doing their thing whether they mesh with the old or not. Nothing is stopping them.

Say you and your 10 friends started an LS, how would you feel if people didn't want to join because you all already know each other?

This came off as mildly hostile! I really have no response to this at all, unfortunately. If that's how you wish to state it, so be it.

(08-06-2013, 05:24 PM)Reppu Wrote: [ -> ]This came off as mildly hostile! I really have no response to this at all, unfortunately. If that's how you wish to state it, so be it.

Then I apologize whole-heatedly as that was not at all my intent.

Just to add: I have no hostile thoughts to anyone and their plans. I may be sad to see this split happening in the community, but at the end of the day everyone has to make their own way. I'm just offering my views on the matter and text fails at portraying tone. In the end it is always up to each person what will make them the most happy.