Hydaelyn Role-Players

Hi. Google Searched you guys. /bow

I've got a few questions about the Lore behind Pugilists and Monks. I can't make new threads on the Official Lore forums yet though, sadly.

I'd like to preface this by saying that I have only been playing FFXIV for a week or so (which has mostly been comprised of trying every class to 10, for the most part), and so I have only played the Pugilist/Monk storyline to level 10. I'm probably going to shoot for Monk as my first job. also, I never played 1.0, so I am going into this brand new.

As I understand the Lore behind the Pugilist, based on the basic class descriptions, and quest dialogue, and the general look and feel of the class:

The basic class' fighting style is (ooc) based somewhat on Kickboxing. 

IC, the style was created by an Ul'Dahn fighter named Cordelia, and was used to win competitions in the Gladiators Arena. Cordelia studied many different fighting styles (I am assuming she studied Lancer and Gladiator weapon-based styles as well) in the development of her personal style, which involved flowing naturally through three different combat Stances, or "Forms", Opo-Opo, Raptor, and Couerl(sp?) in combat, easily shifting from one form to the next and back with each move . 

She then became Coliseum Champion by defeated several fully armed and armored fighters, using only her hands, feet, and the style she developed.

Afterwards Cordelia built a Dojo and began teaching her style to willing pupils, one of which could have been the current GuildMaster, Hamon the Holyfist (maybe? there is no record anywhere of how old Cordelia was, or whether she is still alive or not). After the Calamity, the Pugilist's Guild rebuilt its quarters in the manner of Cordelia's Dojo, and continue to teach her style as its primary function.

(i embellished a little bit, just to add some detail.)

One question I have about this tale is, is there an "Official" Name for the style that Cordelia created, which is the style that Pugilists use ingame? "Pugilism" is a generic term for all kinds of hand-to-hand fighting(boxing, kickboxing, karate, etc.), I don't imagine that she would name her specific style "Pugilism". (if I had to pick a name, I'd choose something like "Ul'Dahn Kickboxing".

As for Monks, as I understand it, they practiced a completely different style, called Fist of Rhalgr, in Ala Mhigo, before it was conquered by the Garleans. right? Based (ooc) on Chinese Martial Arts, I am guessing? And now the Fist of Rhagyr style is believed to be dead, due to Garlean rule outlawing it? Yet it survives in Ul'Dahn for whatever reason (perhaps a Fist of Rhalgr Master fled Ala Mhigo when it was conquered, and taught the style to someone in Ul'Dah?)

So, lore-wise, a Pugilist learns and masters the Ul'Dahn Kickboxing style, and then those who wish to take their skills/training to the next level, learn the Ala Mhigo Fist of Rhalgr style, and then incorporate it into their fighting techniques?

please correct any of this that I got wrong...

Here's a few snippets from the pugilist and monk job quests, and from general analysis, that I can remember off the top of my head:

Pugilists start out by training heavily in the physical aspects of unarmed combat, using mostly punching techniques, and a few pressure point attacks. The Touch of Death level 15 skill is based on the Dim Mak, representing delayed death with DOT damage.

The monk job quests have you learning about chakra-enhanced techniques from Widargelt and Erik. The latter explains that "chakra" is simply a term for aether absorbed into the body from energy-heavy environments such as ancient battlefields, a capability unique to monks alone.

It's theorized that latent memories and experiences from the battlefields are likewise absorbed, helping open chakra gates in the monk. As opposed to mages shaping aether outside of their bodies into spells, aether runs actively through monks' veins and empowers their own physical bodies from within.

To put it more simply, pugilists start out by mastering the physical aspects of punching, while monks take it to the next level by utilizing the chakra/aether they've absorbed to surpass their physical limits, and release the aetheric energy however they see fit. Allowing them to pull off things like self-healing, flashier dragon kicks, and suplexing trains.

So would it be safe to say the following?

1. A Pugilist is purely physical, a Monk adds Magic to the Physical.

2. The Difference between a Pugilist and a Monk, is the additional Techniques for absorbing and internally controlling Aether that a Monk is taught, and the Pugilist does not know. (I am assuming, of course, that the Aether manipulation that a Monk does is not Natural, but is the product of intense training in very advanced techniques)

3. The Difference between an Ul'Dahn Monk, and an Ala Mhigan Monk would be their fighting styles (Ul'Dah based on Kickboxing vs Ala Mhigo based on Kung-Fu)

Lore train pulling up to the station~

Monk just so happens to be my forte, as my character is in fact a fully fledged Monk! At least in practice. He doesn't adhere to the religious bits. He's also a master of the Coeurlfist, though I'll get into that later.

 So! Let's start.

The Fists of Rhalgr is actually an organization, not a style of combat. Rather, it was an organization. The Fists of Rhalgr were all but destroyed prior to the collapse of Ala Mhigo and it's inevitable conquering by Garlemald. At the time, Ala Mhigo was ruled by King Theodoric - otherwise known as the King of Ruin, or the mad king. He was notorious for his hunger for power, and went so far as to murder his people to make certain there was no threat to his rule. Over time, he grew more and more mad, distrusting even this own royal court. The Fists of Rhalgr had been growing in influence over recent years, as they were a religious group that followed the ideals of Rhalgr. Their incredible strength inevitably saw their order melded with Ala Mhigo's military, giving them even more power. The amount of political pull and power the Fists of Rhalgr was gaining in Ala Mhigan society was seen as a threat by Theodoric, and so in the year 1552 of the Sixth Astral Era, he led a massive army to the site of the Monk's main temple in Ala Mhigo. He then proceeded to slaughter everyone he could, effectively destroying the order in a single sun. No one was spared. Trainees, devotees, elders, and even homeless that sought refuge within the temple and the surrounding area were all murdered in cold blood.

The temple was burned to the ground, and with it almost all knowledge of the Fists of Rhalgr. Some, however, managed to escape, and began to travel Eorzea. As it stands, there is no canonically official group of Monks in Ul'dah, but it's not impossible for there to be one or two in hiding there.

That being said, the Fists of Rhalgr taught that through great meditation and rigorous training of both body and mind, one could achieve greatness in the eyes of the destroyer. The Monks had such a great amount of concentration that they were able to harness the innate aether in their bodies in order to strengthen themselves. Tapping into this power, however, requires both a great deal of mental fortitude and inner strength. There are seven "Chakra", or reserves of energy, to be unlocked, with the seventh being the most difficult to master. Once a Monk has unlocked it, though, they are able to open it at will to enhance their strength beyond normal limits.

That being said, Monks use this in tandem with hand-to-hand combat to produce devastating results.

Now, there are a few stances that pugilists learn which you listed, and there are also elemental fists that Monks learn to use. Really, a character's style of combat is more or less something that can be decided by the player.

There is, however, one particular style of combat that is mentioned in-game. This is called the Coeurlfirst. It was created by a world renowned monk by the name of Ivon Coeurlfist, who spent years in ascetic seclusion atop the mountains of Gyr Abania fighting Coeurls. He eventually adopted their style of combat into his own, and produced one of the most fearsome and powerful styles of hand-to-hand combat ever seen. It is also, consequently, one of the most difficult styles to learn.

This is also where Sphairai has it's origins, as Ivon had a pair of weapons forged in the likeness of Coeurls. These became a symbol of mastery over the Coeurlfist, and were adopted by Monks who walked that path.

Alrighty! Well, I could go on and on and on, but I'll stop here, and if you have further questions I can elaborate on whatever they are.

Don't be short-winded for my sake.  I'll read it all.

I've got some more questions, but I am playing atm, so i'll post them later.

but specifically, I'd like to know more about this Cordelia person, and how the Ul'Dah Pugilist Guild became the way it is. From the ambiance, early quest text, and the aesthetics and animations of the Pugilist class skills, It's quite safe to say that it is influenced by American-style Kickboxing(haven't seen any throws, grapples or elbows yet, which is why I say American-style, which doesn't generally include those as far as I know), and I'm curious as to how that particular style was ICly developed by the Pugilist Guild.

Overall, I am moreso interested in the different Physical Combat styles, specifically between the Pugilist Guild of Ul'Dah, and whatever style  the Fist of Ralgr Monks in Ala Mhigo practiced, and now you've piqued my curiosity about this Coeurlfist Style.

so please, do go on.

There isn't that much more to add. Most of this is based on ingame quest text, item descriptions, and NPC dialogue. The information about Cordelia comes from Gagaruna, the guild receptionist. The information about Ivon Coeurlfist comes from a 2012 Lodestone article. Gamewise, Coeurlfist is also the title given to all monks upon completion of the relic quest.

I wouldn't worry too much about adhering to a single style prescribed by the guild. The NPC dialogue itself states that "The art practiced here is based on her all-encompassing style," in reference to Cordelia and the flexibility of the teachings. Various people and races will adjust accordingly for their differences - an elezen might take advantage of their potentially longer reach, for example, while a lalafell might focus on swift movements and rapid strikes to pressure points.

This is a direct quote from the NPC Erik in the job quests, regarding monks: "...through rigorous training of the mind and body, and with constant invigoration and refinement, one can approach the sublimity of Rhalgr himself. Such is their power of concentration that they are able to master the aether within their bodies and channel it in a manner that grants them immense destructive power."

While other classes might hurl spells or wield magically-enhanced blades and bows, monks channel that aether/chakra into their bodies instead, even manifesting it as elemental attacks with the Fists of Earth/Wind/Fire. This is unarmed combat that will eventually let you solo giants and magitek mecha in Mor Dhona. Precedents exist for a variety of different combat styles and techniques when it comes to magical martial arts, so pick the one that fits your character best.