Hydaelyn Role-Players

"I've worn this darkened armor for so long now, there's no mote of light left in me..."
--Cecil Harvey

---------
...sheesh, Cecil, lighten UP!

This post is going to touch on a subject that takes a couple of assumptions, those being...

1. Dark Knight is going to be a job
   
2. Thaumaturge is one of the pre-requisites for the job
   

As it stands now, Steel is a Paladin only by virtue of the fact that I like tanking classes.  There's no noble purpose for her joining the Sultansworn, she's not a holy crusader, and she holds almost no fealty to Ul'dah as a born and bred Lominsan.

That said, she's also not a cruel person.  As an aspiring Armorsmith, becoming a heavy armor-wearing fighter provides her personal insight on how to craft suits of armor, and adventuring provides the coin to fund her dream of opening her own Armory.  As a character, she works...but as a player, I have always loved the Dark Knight ever since I had time with one in XI, and with Mr. Mopey Cecil Harvey prior to in FF II (which is what it was called when it first released, I know it was IV in Japan).

As I've stated before, she isn't exactly well-versed in magickal things without the aide of her grimoire for notes right now...and I imagine that the DRK class will involve the use of THM cross-skills or some combination of THM and GLD.  Which presents a problem of how Steel would come to "falll from grace" out of Paladinship and into the cold arms of the Dark Knight.

I'm trying to not go the obvious route and have her become some demoness or something similarly trite.  I envision her being able to tap into some level of ferocity and darkness within herself, sure, but I also don't believe that she'd do so out of damage or rage so much as learning to temper duty with ferocity. 

I'm curious about how to handle this planned change in her life.  What would be a good way of embracing darkness without being a caricature?

Something that might be interesting is someone who falls into darkness like that not because they're turning "OMG Ebil!", but because they see it as the price for doing something that's worth far more to them. Defeating the Garleans once and for all; Destroying the beast tribes; Establishing some new order that makes a better world for everyone.

The ancient Egyptians had a creation story where the first Gods made some snakes and then the snakes helped to create the world. Since the snakes were not of the world, they couldn't survive after it had been created, and so they died. They paid this price so that the world we know could be created.

In the movie Serenity, Chiwetel Ejiofor's character ("The Operative") is doing terrible things because he believes he's helping to create a better world, and that's worth the price he pays for it:

Quote:I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.

I'd be tempted to go down this route. Don't walk into the darkness because you believe in the darkness. Walk into the darkness because you believe in the light at the other side.

(01-24-2014, 02:39 PM)C Wrote: [ -> ]I'd be tempted to go down this route. Don't walk into the darkness because you believe in the darkness. Walk into the darkness because you believe in the light at the other side.

The idea I've had is that Steel is using her time among the Amalj'aa to learn the value of ferocity.  It's the first and best excuse I've got for her to tap into the darkness within and use it as a weapon.

I really do like your thought, though...being the weapon that nobody else wants to be.  That makes a level of sense, it's the getting there I wanna plan out...

(01-24-2014, 02:39 PM)C Wrote: [ -> ]Words

So basically she should be batman? 

(01-24-2014, 03:36 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2014, 02:39 PM)C Wrote: [ -> ]Words

So basically she should be batman? 

Feature request: I would like to be able to give someone negative reputation points, please...

(01-24-2014, 04:16 PM)C Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2014, 03:36 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2014, 02:39 PM)C Wrote: [ -> ]Words

So basically she should be batman? 

Feature request: I would like to be able to give someone negative reputation points, please...

You know you love me >:3 .

The thing that (typically) sets the Dark Knight apart from the rest is its ability to corrupt. Other roles are simply practiced, but Dark Magic is (again, I say typically since I'm addressing the usual trope) depicted as an almost living entity. It makes the user do things; it changes them. That conflict and how the 'host' deals with it is what makes it so interesting.

First, address Steel's identity beforehand. Is she ambitious? Is she 'good'? What would be her 'price': the thing she wants / state she'd get to where she would abandon her beliefs? This price doesn't necessarily have to even be a prize; flip it around and it could be a breaking point at which she simply stops caring. Second, why is she interested in this? Dark Magic comes with a warning label, so what would get her to even consider it? Is it a means to an end? Is that end selfish or pure-hearted?

From what I can glean from Steel, she'd need a pretty good reason to resort to the Dark Knight trope, but honestly that can make the fall all the more poignant  if you can pull it off. My Garlean isn't a Dark Knight, but she does some pretty nasty things for the sake of an ideal she wholeheartedly believes in. She's not evil, but she realizes achieving her end requires getting her hands dirty.

Well Steel is definitely not against getting her hands dirty or considering every option to help the cause of liberty and protection for the realm and for her beloved Lominsa.  She's an idealist, but not terribly starry-eyed.  Right now her aspirations are riding no higher than being able to open her own armory.

The thing that seems to be the best avenue for her to consider black magic and ultimately to fall to darkness is her time with the Amalj'aa and their dogged, raging determination.  Probably where the seed will be planted, so to speak.

Again, though, this is not going to utterly cause her to be a spoooooky wraith.  I still see her being warm enough and sharp-tongued, it's just the means to the end where she'll use the powers of the Dark Knight as the best weapon against the enemies of the realm.

This has been incredibly helpful, thank you so much RPC!  ^^

At the risk of causing unintentional trouble, I have to ask. If Steel wishes to engage her fury and you want to tank then why not go Marauder and Warrior?

The Dark Knight isn't some furious reaper of souls, nor is it Batman. *Eyes the jokesters* Cecil was a Dark Knight because he committed acts of terrorism, murder, and theft in the name of his kingdom and his liege. He was corrupted by an outside force, the fiend of water posing as the King. I won't pretend to know about the Dark Knight in XI, but the concept of the character type seems very different from what you described Steel. Free Knights are trained and in some cases "knighted" by kingdoms, hence the "Ser" but they're not paladins or remotely do-gooders. That's too monochromatic for a personality design. 

Maleagant had the lofty ideals of the knight, but chose to make war against the kingdom of Camelot because he believed Arthur was weak. He stole Guinevere away and challenged the great kingdom outright, but he was no barbarian. (Some of my info is from story and some from the portrayal of the character in the film First Knight)

Damodar in the terribad D&D films was as evil as they come as far as most could tell, a fallen knight indebted to a wizard and infected with some parasitic monstrosity. But there is a key scene where he uncharacteristically shows remorse in interrogation of the wizard Marina. (Yes, horrible movie but the point is still sound.) Yes, from the beginning, he was a henchman but Profion (the archetypical bad-guy) forces him to continue service by infecting him. 

These remind me of the classic Dark Knight type. 

Again, I apologize if this post is inflammatory in any way and I'm certainly not telling anyone how to play the game they pay for. Just asking questions and providing a talking point.

That is a great point--and perhaps Marauder/Warrior would be a bridge towards furthering her move from one discipline to the other to ultimately the Dark Knight.  I really do like that idea, so thanks very much for that.  :3

The DRK quest in XI required you to use a low-level sword and kill something to the effect of 50 or so enemies and bring it back to the questgiver, so that's rather where the assumptions of the class lie--the point of the class quest was to drive home the point of using power and ferocity to be able to destroy your enemies.  Using this general template, and without knowing exactly when or how the class will fit into the lore of Eorzea, I kinda went with that as the line of thinking to follow.  Obviously, I might have to adjust my line of thinking if the official release info offers different lore entirely.

Also of note that this plot point of mine would be an eventual sort of thing--I'm not planning on having her drop her sword and shield, shrugging in defeat and going "Welp, I'm dark now! Hai gaiz!".  Ideally, this would be done with some other folks in RP, but prior experiences have led me to prepare for the eventuality of running this plot by myself and telling the story through journaling and other media for other people to read and (hopefully) enjoy.

The examples you gave are of people who started out that way.  My point, and the point of my asking opinions and questions, is to find a good way to lead Steel towards that eventual end.  Emphasis on eventual.

Truth be told, both examples didn't -start- that way but started their respective tales that way. I have always viewed these sorts of things from the perspective that no one popped from the womb and thought to themselves "When I grow up, I plan to kill as many of you as possible"....except for Stewie from Family Guy.

Also, I understand what you're thinking, Steel. And I am openly willing to help further your RP development, etc, at any time. Let me know if I can help, using an NPC or Galen even, in any way.

Cheers!

-Black Hat

They say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" and I think it's really true. It can start off rather simply, for example there is the age old question which I will paraphrase:

"Imagine a train coming down a railroad, and the track splits in two, down one track are 10 people strapped, the other track only has 1, you control the switch which determines the track, what track do you send the train down"

Now, most people and characters would send the train down the track with 1, however what you are really doing is making the conscious decision to murder 1 person, to save 10.

Now say your character has a gun, and can shoot the driver of the train and stop it before it even gets to the junction, now you are literally murdering someone to save lives.

When you scale it up to city and continent sized groups of people, you get things like the Garleans, who unleashed countless horrors on eorzea, because to them the train was coming, with Eorzea on one track, and the world on the other.

What I'm saying is that most characters and villians will never be truly "bad", but it can be really seductive to engage in that sort of moral relativism, and eventually you get to the point where it's ok to quench your new blade in the blood of an innocent, because that demon over there is doing worse stuff, and you need it that sword to kill it. Keep doing that, and eventually you'll be the demon, and the cycle will continue.