Quote:But sometimes Jow Schmoe really likes performing task X, a task that Mary Sue wouild hate to do and feels uncomfortable doing. If you take away the trinity, what you'll get is that Mary will have to perform task X, the task she hates and that Joe would prefer doing anyway.
I’ll come back to this in a bit when I get to my second example of MMOs.
Quote:I don't know how a game without the trinity would perform. Taking it away pretty much means leaving only one role in.
Not necessarily. To me, “trinity†basically means that you have people optimizing for highly specialized builds, resulting in A, someone to take the damage, B, someone to heal the damage, and C, someone to deal the damage.
It’s an extreme case of optimization where someone went, “hey, instead of all 16 of us taking these hits while trying to keep ourselves alive and also kill the boss, why don’t we get Leroy over there to force this big guy to hit him and only him. We can, like, dedicate a bunch of us to healing him, and the rest of you can just focus on dealing damage.â€
Quote:You can't take away dealing damage, as most MMOs are based around the murdering of mobs.
This is a pervasive notion born of the majority of video game industry revolving around “kill or be killedâ€, but I’ll roll with it.
Quote:That leaves you taking away tanking (no ways to reliably alter the mob's aggro lists) and healing (maybe by giving the players unreliable healing skills, with long cooldowns or that don't heal much or that heal only when outside of combat or whatever). Which means Joe Schmoe, who really likes tanking, can't tank, and Mary Sue, who really likes healing, can't heal.
The trinity doesn't force people into roles. No game (that I know of, anyway) will force a player into being a tank class if he doesn't want to: he can always choose the rogue or the priest.
That wasn’t my point. My point was that the trinity more often than not forces you to choose between roles, at which point you are forced into performing certain tasks based on the role you selected. There are rare exceptions (SMN tanking with Titan-egi, for instance) but for the most part once you’ve chosen a role, you’ve dedicated yourself to specializing in that role.
This is less of an issue for XIV, where each toon gets access to every available class, but still an issue, as each class (again, save SMN) is irrefutably forced into a role that’s optimal for it. Yes, you can toggle off Defiance or toggle on Sword Oath and go DPS, but that doesn’t change the fact that you were taken as a tank; if they didn’t need you tanking, they would have brought you as a MNK, DRG, BRD, BLM, or SMN.
Quote:It gives distinct combat roles so that people may specialize in them and pick the one they like the most.
The only problem I see with it is that healers and tanks are always on higher demand, meaning getting parties is always on the "let's wait half an hour or more" side of things for damage dealers.
The problem is that the trinity model isn’t fresh. It’s tried and true but tired, like a cliché. What if most movies coming out of Hollywood were very cliché films? …oh, wait, that’s already the case.
I’ll give you two examples of MMOs which, if they don’t break from the trinity model completely, at least make an effort to move away from the standard born from Ultima, EQ, and WoW.
The first has already been brought up anumber of times: E.V.E.
E.V.E. breaks convention by saying, hey, this big ship here, it has a ton of health, and because it’s so big, it also carries a ton of firepower. It doesn’t matter that there’s no conventional means of forcing aggro, when something dozens of times your size jumps into the system, your fleet either deals with it, flees, or takes the blow. “Threatâ€, in this case, is actual threat. Smaller ships, on the other handed, are more utility-oriented. For instance, tackling is a unique concept in that the most fragile units in the area are given the task of being the CC machines. Since there are no guaranteed kills without a tackler, E.V.E. essentially has a fourth archetype.
Now mind you, the above is PvP related, and PvE mostly comes down to “duke it out ‘til the mobs are dead or you have to jump.†So let me turn to the next example: Puzzle Pirates.
"But Puzzle Pirates isn’t a real MMO,†people tell me. Bull. If your definition of a 'real' MMO is “you control a character in real time from the third-person perspective and you have your own health bar and you kill other things with health bars before they kill youâ€, then congratulations, you’ve fallen into the mindtrap that is the “MMOs are Ultima/EQ/WoW†mentality.
Puzzle Pirates is a massively multiplayer online game. Mind you, it’s pretty terrible given that it’s pay-to-win, but put that aside. You don’t have a health bar in PP. You have a toon, and you have some minor customization options, but the real meat of the game comes down to signing up to work on some other Player Character’s ship (unless you make enough in-game money, or purchase via cash-shop, your own ship). So a team of players, ranging anywhere from three to more than a dozen players in size, share the same “health pool†(despite a complete lack of a conventional health bar), and they’re all playing different mini-games (I’d love to see anyone call gunnery a minigame, gunnery is HARD) to contribute to the crew’s success. Some dude is playing a variation of Panel de Pon to keep the ship from taking on water, some other dude is playing with pentominoes to patch up the wooden hull, some other guy is navigating, and one dude is taking on all the tactical decisions by playing a real nifty real-time turn-based sea battle.
This is a MMO that, aside from a few similarities (bilge pumping is kinda like healing, gunnery is kiiiiinda like dps but not really, tactics is tanking by virtue of giving you control over the encounter) breaks the trinity model completely. Now, the really neat thing about this was that each role (barring navigation and the tactical sea battle) could have multiple people contributing at a time. Joe Schmoe and Mary Sue were both free to take on whichever role they wanted. And the best part? People could rotate roles mid-battle based on who was needed where (“Michael, go swap with John, we need him on gunnery and you’re a decent enough bilgeratâ€). And you'd want everyone to get experience on navigation and tactics anyway, as guilds were not limited to a single vessel, so you could build up a fleet and you'd need experienced sailors/officers for your newer boats.
It would have beeen more successful were it not for two facts: 1, it’s marketed and geared almost completely towards little kids and consequently is as obscure as all get-out, and 2, pay-to-win (buy bigger ship with more firepower) has more or less ruined PP given how difficult it is (or was, I haven’t played in years) to earn your own ship with in-game grinding.
These kinds of games don’t get made very often. Most groundbreakers tend to fail for a variety of reasons, many of which are often unrelated to the quality of the game itself, and most executives would rather churn out WoW clones rather than allow developers to break from the proven trinity model.
Disclaimer: My experience with E.V.E. amounts to several weeks' worth of trials and watching friends play. I spent the better part of a year and a half on PP.
P.S. I wrote this up in Word and formatting is killing me aaaaarghurghlafblegrgle.
P.P.S. I apologize for dragging this thread further off-topic.