Hydaelyn Role-Players

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If you want to rp multiple classes, go ahead, that's cool, in fact that is what I do, Nako is a teacher of Aether for the three major styles (Thaumaturgy, Conjury and Arcanima(sp?)). he has done lectures at the different guilds before. however, he does not have any practical knowledge of the more advanced methods, (summoning, black magic, succor, scholary goodness) all he has is theoretical knowledge.

however, I would stray away from being a practicioner of multiple job styles of Magic, they are supposed to be rare in and of themselves, and for one person to be a master of multiple Jobs I would find it hard to believe without it being mary sueish.

as to the second bit, i don't believe it would be possible, I think any white mage caught by the elementals playing around with black magic would find themselves stripped of their ability to use succor.

this is only a quick answer and I will go into more detail when I am able.

The only way out of this mess would be to use the back door introduced by the lore panel in that there's people researching how to access and use Succor for nefarious means.

I personally plan on maxing everything, but not having its powers IC. Typically, if I carry the weapon visibly, it's IC. If I don't, I'm using the class as a storage for a glamour that's important for the character.

Thinking purely on how Scholar seems to sort of do a little bit of everything through use of high math, it would seem like being able to divine patterns and work out extremely complex magical formula would make one capable of being a master of it all.

But, then, one loses that whole "consumed by darkness" angle one is trying to go for.

Also, I could be getting the lore about Scholars completely bollocked up, in which case I expect someone to vehemently correct me. And then Dragon Dive on my head for my transgressions. XD

So... there's a rather significant debate among RPers about the extent of the powers of the elementals of the Shroud in the 2.0 timeframe and their current relationship to Succor, as well as what lore-compliant ways might exist to learn it. As a general rule, RPing that you use Succor in any fashion is likely to complicate your RP, so I recommend people avoid it.

With that said, I don't think there's anything problematic about learning and using the three Disciplines of Magic (arcanima, thaumaturgy, and conjury). They do work largely differently from each other, but they all involve the channeling and weaving of Aether, so a person talented in one could pick up the others. As Nako'li noted, though, RPing that you use multiple Job Disciplines is likely to come off poorly in the larger RP community for a variety of reasons. I think it best to avoid the Jobs entirely or pick just one -- preferably a more common one, such as Summoner, which is being actively revived -- to use ICly.

By way of example, L'yhta is quite knowledgeable in all three Disciplines of Magic, but the only Job she knows ICly is Summoning. Any effects that she uses that are "Job-like" (massive explosions or what have you) are just spells she's researched, modified, or created that still fall under arcanima, thaumaturgy, or conjury. That doesn't mean she doesn't have some theoretical knowledge of the lost Jobs, and it doesn't mean she's not actively researching them (because screw the elementals, no one tells her what she can and can't learn! ).

Part 1:
I'll begin with anyone can RP however they wish to... however, from a purely lore standpoint, it would be highly unlikely to become a master of all schools of magic. Also something to note, conjury is not the same thing as white magic. Thaumaturgy is not the same as black magic. The methodology of Arcanima is closely related to Scholar and Summoner, but also note that these are also three different magicks from three different time periods. So when you say you want to master all schools of magic, be aware that there aren't just three... there are closer to seven. Eight if you count the coming Astrologian, which we don't know much about yet.

Summoning was a magic practiced and perfected by the ancient Allagans 5000 years ago. It was likely the forefather of modern day Arcanima. Summoners would draw upon the absorbed spirit of defeated Primals of eld and conjure an essence or Egi of that Primal which had been bent to the caster's will.

Scholar, unlike its Summoning and Arcanima relatives is actually less a summoning art. Scholars created strong bonds with an Elemental-like creature called a Fairy or Fae. Also unlike Summoners and Arcanists, the Scholars of Nym focused on restorative magics and drew upon their own skills and the magicks of their Fae to cure their allies. However, after the plague befell Nym, the Scholars lost their ability to communicate with their Fae and evoke their magicks and Scholar was lost for the next 1600 years.

Arcanima is likely descendant from bits of Summoning and Scholarly magic. Like their predecessors, Arcanists draw and channel their magic through geometric shapes and patterns aided by specialized inks which amplify their energies. Using their own aether, Arcanists can call forth a Familiar called Carbuncle to aid them, likely left over from Summoning days.

Thaumaturgy is believed to be the original form of magic of the 5th Astral Era, close to 3000 years ago. Thaumaturgy draws from the caster's own aether and focuses the spell through a gemstone medium to cast. Over the centuries, Thaumaturgy took a dark turn and became a magic focused upon death. Skilled wielders of the magic were able to do incredible things, such as return people from Thal's realm. When Ul'dah and Sil'dih rose from the ashes of Belah'dia, Thaumaturgy took on the duality of the Traders, Nald'thal, and became the study of life and death. The religious Order of Nald'thal was formed with the belief that by using Thaumaturgy to more deeply understand Death, they might better be able to understand and appreciate Life.

Black Magic, by contrast, is actually a technique, not a true form of Magic. In the early years of the 5th Astral Era, a young Magi named Shatotto wished to further the limitations of Thaumaturgy, but was ultimately unable to perform the magicks she wished to due to her own limited aether supply. So she devised a method to curb the Lifestream and draw upon the aether of the planet instead of her own. This technique was coined "Black Magic" as it killed the land around the caster, but it afforded Shatotto unlimited power and paved the way for the War of the Magi centuries later. By the time the War of the Magi broke out at the end of the 5th Astral Era, Black Magic was capable of many incredible feats - bringing down stars, animating inanimate objects, and tearing holes in our Physical Plane, opening a portal to the Void and drawing forth unimaginable demons upon the world. However, by the end of the War, Black Mages had drained the world entirely of its aether and had nearly killed the planet. Because of this unlimited destructive force, Black Magic was forbidden and strictly outlawed.

White Magic or Succor is the magic of the Elementals. Around the middle of the 5th Astral Era, it was gifted to the Amdaporians to balance the destructive power wrought by Shatotto's Black Magic. These Amdaporians were tasked with restoring what Black Magic destroyed. For many years, this balance persisted, but as Black Mages sought greater and more powerful spells, White Mages stretched the limits of their power and the War of the Magi broke loose, bringing irreparable harm to the planet and the Twelveswood. Furious, the Elementals summoned a great flood which washed the taint of the Magi from the planet and grew the Twelveswood up and around the lost city of Amdapor so that its magic would never be recovered. For 1000 years White Magic was lost to the world, until the Elementals birthed the Padjal race from the Gelmorrans and filled them with the blessing of Succor. These Padjal protected and restored the Wood with their power and lead the new Gridanians into an age of peace with the Wood.

Conjury is the youngest form of magic, born only 500 years ago during the time of Gelmorra. After the 5th Umbral Era had ended and the survivors made their way back to the Twelveswood, they found their way blocked by thick trees and angered Elementals. So the Elezen dug beneath the forest and lived in caves for a 1000 years, trying to make peace with the Elementals above and live within the Wood once more as they did in the time of Amdapor. Now, during this time, Hyur began flocking to Eorzea in great migratory waves, causing wars between the Hyur and Elezen races all across Eorzea. However, when the Hyur attempted to enter the Twelveswood, the Elementals forbade them egress as well. Looking past their racial differences, the Elezen of Gelmorra welcomed the Hyur with open arms. It is believed this act of goodwill and fellowship is what compelled the Elementals to reconsider their stance. The Elementals sent Moogles to communicate with the leaders of Gelmorra and teach them a way to communicate with the Elementals. The magic the Moogles taught the Gelmorrans became known as Conjury, the ability to manipulate the aether in nature using concentration and meditation. This magic birthed the first Hearers, men who could hear the will of the Elementals.

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So, taking all that, could one person learn to master multiple forms of magic, perhaps yes? But it'd be extremely difficult as each branch of magic is unique in its own way and in the case of some, diametrically opposed to another. In the case of Black Magic and White Magic, they are both forbidden and forgotten magicks that were created in opposition of one another.

As far as any of the ancient magicks go, they are all but lost to the world for many centuries. Learning one is probably fine, but learning multiple relies on the absolute crazy happenstance of finding out about the magic in the first place and finding someone to teach it.

If you want to do that, I tried to break down who would feasibly know about each of the ancient magicks:

Black Magic: Prelates and High Priests in the Order of Nald'thal would know about Black Magic but most would not be able to teach it. There are also some Beast Tribes which still practice Black Magic to some extent. If your character is friendly with beastmen, perhaps that could be used as an in for Black Magic.

White Magic: The Padjal are the only living users of this magic. You would have to learn from them and earn their trust. Elementals can also bestow the magic, but will only do so if you are judged pure and incorruptible of heart. The recent Lore Panel also suggested that there are others who may be trying to reclaim the lost Succor of Amdapor through nefarious means. This likely has something to do with the Lambs of Dalamud and the upcoming Amdapor Keep HM dungeon.

Summoning: The Sons of Saint Coinach know about the magic, but none of them really know how it works or how to teach it. The Ascians can and will teach Summoning, if you want your character to be involved with the Asicans.

Scholar: Military tacticians and scholars would probably know about the Scholars of ancient Nym, but a large part of a Scholar's magic is drawn from their Fae companion, so you'd have to find one of those as well.

Hope this helps! ^^;


Part 2:
Focusing in more on your specific character, I believe the backstory is believable with the exception of him already knowing White Magic. And I'm not saying this because "White Mage taboo GTFO" but because you said your character's family is wealthy and Ul'dahn. So I think that particular point needs more fleshing out? Did your character grow up in Ul'dah and get sent to Gridania to learn Conjury... somehow become a White Mage in the process, and then up and leave to return to Ul'dah?

(01-01-2015, 02:09 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: [ -> ]Focusing in more on your specific character, I believe the backstory is believable with the exception of him already knowing White Magic. And I'm not saying this because "White Mage taboo GTFO" but because you said your character's family is wealthy and Ul'dahn. So I think that particular point needs more fleshing out? Did your character grow up in Ul'dah and get sent to Gridania to learn Conjury... somehow become a White Mage in the process, and then up and leave to return to Ul'dah to become a playboy?

An elderly master of magic?

Such a cookie cutter archetype, one wonders why we don't see more of them in FFXIV...

(01-01-2015, 05:01 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: [ -> ]An elderly master of magic?

Such a cookie cutter archetype, one wonders why we don't see more of them in FFXIV...

Because there are very few "elderly" looking options in the character creator. xD /OT

(01-01-2015, 05:01 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: [ -> ]An elderly master of magic?

Such a cookie cutter archetype, one wonders why we don't see more of them in FFXIV...

oh noes, someone wants to play something familiar! Burn them! its not like someones playing the (supposed) stoic soldier or anything.....

(01-01-2015, 04:51 PM)WiredBones Wrote: [ -> ]You know? I was hoping people would get into discussions about how the two would clash if someone tried to learn both jobs. I'm a little upset everyone keeps saying it's an idea that should be avoided because it really sounded interesting and fun to me.

Yeah... unfortunately you won't find a lot of that. The unique lore behind White Mage in particular has kind of made the subject a heated, almost taboo topic unfortunately. All in all, you will find some who are kosher with the idea of RPing as a WHM and many who are not okay with it at all. Just be aware of that when you go through with your idea. (Which, I think you should go through with it, as it's a very enjoyable backstory.)

That said...

(01-01-2015, 04:51 PM)WiredBones Wrote: [ -> ]...he went from your average healer, to meeting some people who taught him the craft of being a real white mage. He would've had all his years protecting his homelands to master the discipline. I felt as though white magic would've been important for him to learn asides from the average CNJ for two reasons that I feel would help with his character development as a whole.

If you want to play it safe, I would not broadcast being a White Mage ICly and leave exactly how your character became a White Mage vague. Mostly because 1. White Magic is supposed to be a closely guarded secret, and 2. no one would believe you even if you told them. Outside of the Black Shroud, no one would know what a White Mage is, barring the Order of Nald'thal probably. But the Magic of Succor was specifically entrusted to the Padjal race, so having to explain the loophole of how your character learned it may be more trouble than it's really worth.


Okay, so now that the disclaimer is out of the way!

(01-01-2015, 04:51 PM)WiredBones Wrote: [ -> ]I know the Garlean Empire was moving in on Eorzea up until the first primal was summoned (which was a little less that 2O years ago from my understanding). The mage is too old to have been involved with the Carteneau Flats 5 years ago, but I have been assuming he would've been involved with the fights over 2O years ago back before the Empire pulled out and stopped fighting Eorzea.

Okay, so 25+ years ago, the Garlean Empire's XIVth Legion sets its sights on Eorzea. Instead of a direct invasion against the nation of Ala Mhigo (Eorzea's most formidable military power) Legatus Gaius van Baelsar sowed the seeds of civil unrest into the Kingdom and after fueling King Theodric's paranoia for 5 long years, the Garlean Empire swoops in to cure the crumbling nation of it's corrupted King. Those who resisted were slaughtered. This happened in the year 1557 of the Sixth Astral Era, 20 years ago.

It wasn't for another 5 years that the Garlean Empire advanced deeper into Eorzea, crossing into Mor Dhona. (This 5 year time period is known as the Age of Calm and is when Adventurers came into being.) This is when the Keeper of the Lake, Midgardsormr and the dragonkin of Dravania rose up and crushed the XIVth Legion's advance, buying Eorzea another 10 years before the Garleans attempted their next assault, this time with the aid of the VIIth legion's Legatus Nael van Darnus.

So, there was actually very little fighting against the Garleans until Carteneau, 5 years ago. Ul'dah was actually one of Garlemald's biggest trading partners until the fall of Ala Mhigo. So unless your character was Ala Mhigan Resistance, you probably wouldn't have done very much fighting against the Garleans, especially if your character is Gridanian, until almost 5 years ago.

(01-01-2015, 04:51 PM)WiredBones Wrote: [ -> ]...just like black mages need to pull their magic from the void. ... Black mages need to be interacting with the void, and you said in your post that WHMs were denied by the elements in a fit of rage. Does this mean that as he gets more involved with the void and black magic that his white mage abilities would start backfiring on him?

Just minor correction here. Black Mages don't draw their energies or magic from the Void at all. They draw their aether from the planet, just like White Mages do. The issue is that the only reason Black Mages do this is because the magicks they wish to use require so much energy it would literally kill them to cast without using the aether in the Lifestream as a proxy. It's this massive aether-death which tears holes in our dimension and allows Voidsent to be pulled through. The Void is a dimension or realm completely devoid of Aether. It is the in-between of our Physical Plane and the Aetherial Plane or afterlife. So the creatures who inhabit this purgatory are aether starved and want nothing more than to come into our world and feast.

In a Black Mage's pursuit of power and greater energies, many will sell their souls to these Voidsent beings in the hope of gaining their dark powers. However, these beings care little for the mages which summon them and are more than happy to possess their bodies or corrupt them further into feeding them more aether. Because every massive aether-death that occurs in our plane, some of that aether slips into the Void and feeds something deadly there...

(01-01-2015, 04:51 PM)WiredBones Wrote: [ -> ]Would the black mage style mess with his healing abilities and he'd begin pulling energy from bad places? Would he be hurting himself or others when if he tries to heal now? Maybe anytime he went outside tree branches would be falling on his head. Or he'd have to straight up stay away from nature because it's he's so unbalanced and he has the rage of Greenwrath directed at him (I actually dunno if any nature outside of Gridania would be able to be influenced).

This I cannot answer, as there is no lore to found anything but speculation. No Magi (that we know of) has ever attempted to control both White and Black Magic. So the best I can say is play with it, if this is the concept you wish to play with.

Thaumaturges can actually heal per lore, but it does require their own aether to fuel the spell. If your character is slipping from the pure path of Succor, it is likely that your powers as a White Mage would begin to dwindle as Nature itself and Elementals within nature would likely reject you as you have tainted their sacred magic.

Another issue which complicates this transition, is that pre-Calamity, the Elementals of the Twelveswood were extremely powerful beings, capable of devastating forces. The destruction the Calamity wrought upon the Twelveswood has considerably weakened them in the last 5 years, BUT your character started making this transition from White to Black 20+ years ago, well before the Calamity. You would be playing an extremely dangerous game with the Elementals. You would likely incur Greenwrath the moment you set eyes upon the borders of the Twelveswood, and may not even be completely safe beyond the borders. Elementals are not bound to the Twelveswood, they are simply strongest within the borders of the Hedge. Betraying the Elementals blessing and trust would likely mark your character a cursed man, either shunned by Nature or constantly at its mercy.

(01-02-2015, 12:36 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: [ -> ]So, there was actually very little fighting against the Garleans until Carteneau, 5 years ago. Ul'dah was actually one of Garlemald's biggest trading partners until the fall of Ala Mhigo. So unless your character was Ala Mhigan Resistance, you probably wouldn't have done very much fighting against the Garleans, especially if your character is Gridanian, until almost 5 years ago.

(01-01-2015, 07:20 PM)Nako Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-01-2015, 05:01 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: [ -> ]An elderly master of magic?

Such a cookie cutter archetype, one wonders why we don't see more of them in FFXIV...

oh noes, someone wants to play something familiar! Burn them! its not like someones playing the (supposed) stoic soldier or anything.....

Yeah, no, that was not my implication at all.

You need to stop passive-aggressively quoting/referencing me here on RPC. It's not frequent, but it's happened more than once.

I passively aggressively quote/reference who I like, thank you very much. and in this instance, what you wrote came off very negatively to me, hence why I responded to it. (It could just be that I am playing said elderly master of magic archetype, who'd have thunk it! and if you think there is more to it than that, then you are cruelly mistaken about how much I care about you.)

There is nothing inherently wrong with tropes or archetypes. they are such because they work and are a staple of the genre, o when people post regarding them, and it reads in a bad light, it is annoying, so sue me.

back to the issue at hand, I am not sure that you will find much info regdarding the world 30 years ago, given the start time, you might find some stuff, but it wouldn't be anything major (maybe stuff on the summoning of leviathan etc, I forget the timeframe for that stuff)

(01-02-2015, 12:36 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: [ -> ]So, there was actually very little fighting against the Garleans until Carteneau, 5 years ago. Ul'dah was actually one of Garlemald's biggest trading partners until the fall of Ala Mhigo. So unless your character was Ala Mhigan Resistance, you probably wouldn't have done very much fighting against the Garleans, especially if your character is Gridanian, until almost 5 years ago. 

Sounsyy why you gotta make me hate Ul'dah more than I already do.