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Getting People Engaged. - Printable Version

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Getting People Engaged. - zaviire - 01-02-2017

So let's say you have a fairly large LS (or FC) on your hands. It's great, people are pretty chill OOC, but the focus of your group is supposed to be IC -- and even further, the IC focus of the group is supposed to be tailored toward dark-themed, more plot-based roleplay.

But all people ever want to do are tavern nights and social/slice of life RP. You plan a lot if stuff but very few members consistently show up, and when you do get a large turnout it's because you've employed aid from the sacred deities of Literal Bribery, offering gil prizes for, essentially, being lucky. Even that event turns out to be a miserable experience, and you're getting really tired of planning vapid social events for something that's not supposed to be socially-oriented, but rather something oriented around people networking IC, creating underground connections and taking jobs.

But all of your mercenaries, all your information brokers, roughly half of your "syndicate leaders," your transporters, your assassins, your thieves... All they wanna do is drink and party. Maybe the alcohol is occasionally illegal, but the style of RP that they bring to the table conflicts pretty heavily with what you wanted out of the LS when you started it. There's nothing inherently bad with socials... until it's all you're getting, when you expected a lot more, and it's just the same people over and over. The ones who aren't whacking themselves off over a glass of wine are dead silent and, more than likely, have been since day one -- both IC and OOC.

It's embarrassing, and if it makes you feel cheated as the leader, you can only imagine how some of your members must be feeling.

So, you toss a plotline out there. Not one too big -- a fairly open-ended arc that gives people the chance to strut their stuff since it's framed as a job. And... No one breathes a word to you about it; no questions about the structure or the systems to be used and certainly no expressions of interest (though maybe an unsolicited excuse about "well this character wouldn't do that, and this one would need a lot of convincing!"). But damn, people sure are intent on advertising their socials/tavern nights that aren't even run by a character who's even involved with the group, with little regard as to whether it's actually a good time or place for that kind of thing.

At this point it's clear that even if people are involved... They're not really engaged. There's a lot of people you just get radio static from, regardless of whether they're there IC or not. Nobody is really a go-getter except you and your officers.

So to round off this hypothetical (which if you read this far without figuring out it wasn't actually a hypothetical... Uh, it's not a hypothetical?) with some more pointed questions:

  1. How do you go about getting people engaged, in general?
  2. How do you go about getting people more involved with the story-based side of RP that you intended for a group from the beginning? Be it with planning stuff of their own or getting them involved with stuff that the leadership organizes?
  3. How do you #StopTheSocials 2k17?

Part of me is concerned it's just that the storyline I have planned isn't terribly interesting, but something tells me it's more a matter of most people already being tuned out. Efforts to try and steer the group on my authority as the leader have yet to produce results, but that's mostly because I put them pretty much into effect yesterday; still, the fact that no one is willing to help step up to the plate and plan stuff besides me (and my officers, but they know what their responsibilities are...) is somewhat very worrying.

Part of me is additionally concerned that this just happens to be a pitfall of "crime-based" RP on Balmung, seeing as the culture of the server seems very much tailored more toward the exact sort of slice-of-life RP that I hate, so even people that write criminal characters more or less just use it as a background detail to keep their character from falling into the trap of being Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Good because OH YEAH HE'S TOTALLY AN INFORMATION BROKER HE DOES TONS OF SUPER ILLEGAL STUFF ALL THE TIME GUYS. Or at least given the fact that it's impossible to get my group to do anything short of drink and party (when they do that)... It sure feels that way.

There's nothing wrong with social RP, of course, (of course even as I say that I roll my eyes and cringe) it's more a question of -- how do I get things going on the right track again, and get people involved with the kind of vision I had for the LS going into it? Get people engaged and planning stuff with others? Engaged and participating in things, even if it's just from the fringes to provide commentary?

And when all else fails, how do you go about starting to trim the fat?

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Ririla Rila - 01-02-2017

Well you have to remember. Not all FCs are this way. sure some throw a lot of tavern nights and such but there's a reason: With Criminal RP you need lawful RP to keep up a convincing cover. Otherwise what's stopping the Adders knocking at your door?

I for one run a criminal FC, one which is masked as a tavern. but I like to think I have a good mix, I open up the tavern, invite people in, those who want criminal plots/jobs just use the specific code i laid out. so they get what they came for as well as the average patron who just wants to drink and be merry.

There is a lot of criminal RP on Balmung, and loooots of people with dark themes. Have faith, it is out there.

-Mistress mischief

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Kilieit - 01-02-2017

(01-02-2017, 02:53 PM)zaviire Wrote: So, you toss a plotline out there. Not one too big -- a fairly open-ended arc that gives people the chance to strut their stuff since it's framed as a job. And... No one breathes a word to you about it; no questions about the structure or the systems to be used and certainly no expressions of interest (though maybe an unsolicited excuse about "well this character wouldn't do that, and this one would need a lot of convincing!").

This sounds... really familiar to me. >< It sounds like we're having similar issues, although mine is less "they're doing socials all the time instead" and more just "I just can't get people to RSVP to stuff, like, ever, even if they're literally not doing anything else, and IDK what I'm doing wrong".

I'm gonna be watching this thread for advice, since personally I've been getting really demoralised about this lately... I'd rather take a proactive attitude to trying to solve the problem if I can, but I don't know where to start.

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Thunderbolt300 - 01-02-2017

Hey man! 

I know exactly what you're talking about here- in large part because I actually was in the Linkshell for a while but never felt like there was a good opportunity to get involved. I can, granted, only truly speak for myself, but I doubt I'm the only one either. So, here's my two gil feedback, as a former GM several times over:
  • Less is more. When any group gets above the 30, 40, or 50 member mark, it stops being interconnected and becomes a crowd. It becomes harder to target individual people and put a spotlight on them, and at the same time, makes it much more easy for people to blend into the background and remain unnoticed. Set an activity mandate and a max member count, and don't budge on it. 
  • If you want the focus to be IC, do everything IC. Don't hold OOC meetings that can be held IC. Don't even use voice chat. Make IC the only way things are ever done- this 'tone' will propogate to everyone else by consequence. The GM is the heart of any Linkshell or FC, so their way of doing things will be mimed to a great degree by everyone else as the example to follow.
  • Headhunt. Don't let players blend into the background- with a smaller group, this is infinitely easier to accomplish, as you can headhunt with a crowd of 30- you can't headhunt with a crowd of 50 or 100. It's not a matter of devotion- it's just a simple matter of not having the time. Headhunting accomplishes the task of getting people involved, especially with major plotlines. Have specific roles that need to be filled for the plotline to progress, and headhunt to fill those roles. Double-book them in fact- you will see people drop the ball on occasion, so plan for that.
S'all I got! I hope this is of some value to you either way. If you have questions, feel free to tap me!

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Maril - 01-02-2017

It's probably one of the hardest things about organizing things for others. What some of it comes down to could be who you recruit, there's a lot of different variations of RP that people like more over another. So perhaps you need to focus your recruitment more on people who want story-driven content more-so than social RP.

I would also say that cutting out or trying to kill the social rp is probably not going to be the best idea - when you roleplay everyday, the social element can become a very big part of your character, with connections that needs to be maintained. Yes, there is such a thing as too much, but if you have nothing at all you'll end up with a group that isn't much like a group because no one has really connected with each other. Shifting the focus can be difficult if social stuff is genuinely what people want to do, you can't really force people to shift gear that way - but you may also want to look into if there could be other reasons driving people into social RP. For one, some plot things could very well be happening in the muddle of it, with your focus being on criminal RP that's something I could easily see happening. But secondly people just might not feel like it's easy enough to jump in with the plot-lines, might not be interested or can't see how their character would fit in. Oftentimes you have to be the one asking these questions because people wont always express their concerns/problems/woes. And - without wanting to sound bad here - a lot of people like to be the center of attention for at least a little while. Trying to appeal to this, but without making a whole plotline about just *one* person, can also help generate some interest.

Whichever it is and however it all pans out - I hope you'll end up seeing some improvements. The criminal scene is definitely a good one and it is great to see people being active within it Smile

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Maia - 01-02-2017

I know this struggle quite well, and it is real. I think almost every hard-working guild leader eventually hits an exasperated "Why do I even bother?" point, although it can manifest in a number of complex ways.

It's good that you're looking for a solution, though. I've hit a similar hurdle to the one you're describing, and have tried several trial-and-error things to inspire those around me to jump in both feet first. Maybe one of these things will work for you, although I can't say that all of these suggestions have made me terribly popular all of the time, haha.

- The hype starts with you. If you want people to feel legit excited about what you're throwing out there, I think it's important to be both informative and positive/excited about what's on the horizon. If you're passionate about your story and really believe it'll be a blast for everyone involved, make this known.

- Set aside a designated time for some "real talk." Scheduling a guild meeting has almost always been met with a positive reception for me. It's a great time to sit down with your players and talk about your up-and-coming plans in an organized fashion. It can also be used to solicit some great feedback on what players think about your ideas, or what sort of hooks they'd like to see in the guild's plot. I tend to just throw everyone in a Skype room for conducting my own meetings, since it creates a neat log for posting onto our guild site after the fact. (I also find typing/text to be a lot more laid back and relaxing than voice chat.)

- Create a minimum activity requirement. This may not be the most popular thing, but it's the only way I know to prune off those who are just using your LS/guild as a token membership card without any real drive toward participating in your community. Lay out your minimal activity expectations in a clear format, and then follow through with the subsequent removal if those conditions aren't met. People may be upset if they are removed, but if your guidelines are posted publicly and in a prominent place on your website, then it's kind of the individual's responsibility to adhere to them from there. Of course, if a major RL event happens that's beyond their control, I'm always happy to let them right back in as though they never left. Overall, my activity guidelines are very lenient, but I think they do an okay job of pruning the people who just don't have any interest in participating. It's honestly better to have a smaller and more focused group than a huge and scattered one.

- Nurture the most strongest babby birds. If you notice a member of your guild acting in an ideal way, reward them a little! It doesn't have to be a bribe or anything tangible. It can even be offering them an interesting role in the plot you're managing, or a public comment like "Hey, that was cool, man!" Then again, it could be a bribe, if you put it to good effect. For example, part of my guild's concept is that people can write "Dreams" that other characters can ICly experience. If a person leaves a positive comment on one of these writings, they're entered into a monthly raffle that offers some really boss character art should they win. (One of my officers runs this amenity, and she's lovely for it.)

- Everyone loves a log. If you plan to run a plot, definitely make sure you have a posted record of "the story thusfar" so that everyone can consider themselves reasonably informed before jumping in. (Tiny Edit: written IC summaries are way better received than just posting a straight up RP log clump.) Bonus points if you offer open avenues for engaging in said plot, such as a list of roles that can be filled or other hooks that anyone can sign up for.

You may already be doing some or all of these things, but these are what has helped my own group grow into what it is today.

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Virella - 01-02-2017

Heya!

While I don't struggle with the issue you have, as I have a very other view on this all. I find plots and the like only really work with a small group of people.
In other RP community? Sure, bigger crowds could work, but the chat eating text, the chat in general being terrible to navigate, limited slots in party, the fact we're incapable of making alliances and all basically leaves a lot to be desired in regards of DMing stuff for people.

Personally? If you enjoy those social nights yourself, whether it is attending them or just running them for other people? Continue to do it! But do try to pick out people who are up for plot things. But keep it small you know? Unless you want to run bigger plots, you have to sacrifice more time and/or find more DMs to help you out, but I'm not sure if you want to do that either. Also just because this is what I prefer and works better for me on a smaller scale so far doesn't mean it will work for you, or if it's even the advice you're looking for.

Same as Kileit stated above, I will be watching this thread in case someone has better advice. I'd love to see more suggestions on running plots for bigger crowds because it is something I struggle with as well.

Also, make sure you don't get too frustrated and/or burned out by things. There's no shame in stepping back either for a little while!

RE: Getting People Engaged. - ExAtomos - 01-02-2017

(01-02-2017, 02:53 PM)zaviire Wrote: But all people ever want to do are tavern nights and social/slice of life RP.

  1. How do you go about getting people engaged, in general?
  2. How do you go about getting people more involved with the story-based side of RP that you intended for a group from the beginning? Be it with planning stuff of their own or getting them involved with stuff that the leadership organizes?
  3. How do you #StopTheSocials 2k17?

Then that may be, in fact, all they want to do. Undecided Perhaps tap a reliable FC member to head up these type of social events that don't interest you personally. Let them have fun with it.

I've actually run into the wall of 'social' crime based rp myself recently with a new LS I've joined. My dude isn't just gonna go to a tavern and declare "teehee, I'm a bad guy" just to see who reaches out to me. That... makes zero sense. lol. In my opinion, this type of rp doesn't lend itself to large scale, social events. One on one or small group? Sure! But we both better have a good reason for speaking to each other about Nefarious Stuff tm.

I can't speak for you and your FC members specifically, but I like tossing out RP hooks either oocly (which sadly, usually don't get responses) or over an IC LS with something along the lines of... *Jo's voice sounds pained as she whispers frantically over the linkshell.* Is... is anyone there? I need help... please, gods... send help." /drama Often you'll get people springing from the woodwork for this.

If some folks in your FC just never interact with the rest and it's like a rock in your shoe, speak with them privately. See what they want from the FC and, if there is just a great wall of a mismatch, suggest they seek another group that may fit their rp style better.

Hope this helps! ^^

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Syranelle Ironleaf - 01-02-2017

First off, let me congratulate you on the major undertaking of leading any kind of roleplay group, as well as trying to host RP events.  Both are incredibly difficult jobs, moreso than people give it credit for, because people take a lot of what you do for granted.  It's just what you're "supposed" to do as a leader and host.  Most people don't understand all the planning and networking and creative energy that go into leading and hosting.  They just bump along on the coat-tails of those who do.  In my experience, even in the largest groups I've been in, it's always the same handful of people that do and coordinate things.

That said, it sounds like you need to have "The Talk" with your FC/Linkshell.  If it's not living up to YOUR expectations for it, then it's time to put your foot down and start pruning the fluff.  Keep the people that believe in your premise and actually engage and utilize the group for what it's for.  Balmung is a huge place, there's no need to fret about keeping enough people or being a small FC.  There's so much roleplay here that even small FCs can get things done, so long as its filled with people motivated to do them.

I think every roleplay group, be it FC or Linkshell, has its share of "free loaders" -- people who are in the group, but never (or rarely) participate in what's being offered and what's going on.  I'm of a mind that these sorts of people will only be engaged and only join in when they feel like it.  I offer more than enough opportunities for people to get involved with, covering a wide spectrum of themes: social, adventure, slice-of-life -- and people will only get involved with what interests them.  Ultimately, host events that are fun for YOU to plan and coordinate because your enthusiasm will make or break the event.

Like Maia said, lead by example.  Embody everything about your Linkshell that you want reflected in your members.  If you want them to be active, be active; engage, talk more, advertise events more, post on your forums more.  If you want them to be IC more often, then make sure you're doing that yourself.  Make sure people KNOW that you are:  "Hey, I'm going to be roleplaying at XYZ, anyone is welcome to come out!" -- "I'm free at the moment, if anyone wants to join in the latest Storyline (insert event/storyline URL here)."  Your enthusiasm and initiative will rub off on others if they really want to be part of what you do.  It will eventually separate the wheat from the chaff.

Leading and hosting can be a struggle at times, because you'll always feel like you put forth more effort than most.  The major advice I can give for that is:  don't let it bother you and don't let it discourage you. Have fun, enjoy it, and make the most of the people who DO engage with you. 

As the old saying goes:  "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it."  The same is true for roleplayers; you can create opportunities all day long, but you can't make them partake.  So, just enjoy the time you spend in game, invest in the people who reciprocate that investment and let the rest move on as they will.  You'll be much happier for it, I promise you.  A game should, first and foremost, be fun to log in and play.  Once it starts feeling like a struggle or a job, it stops being fun and starts being obligation.  That includes roleplay as much as anything else.

RE: Getting People Engaged. - zaviire - 01-02-2017

To everyone who's weighed in so far with advice: I really appreciate it! My thoughts are actually pretty similar to what's been tossed out so far: we have OOC meetings periodically in an effort to address issues and give people a chance to toss out ideas and opinions but it ends up mostly being me talking at people and others giving me radio static (outside of my officers).

But I'll definitely try sitting them down and having "The Talk" in text form and I'll definitely look toward cutting the fluff, though doing that will probably be difficult without a completely reliable way to gauge activity beyond manually keeping track of who all seems to be doing things with the group (which with an officer team of four including me to a total population of about 70, poses its own problems... But at the same time, no one seems active or reliable enough for me to expand the officer team, so I kinda have to work with what I have). Especially because I'd like to gauge activity more by participation with the group and less by "when did they log in last."

(01-02-2017, 03:26 PM)Maia Wrote: - Nurture the most strongest babby birds. If you notice a member of your guild acting in an ideal way, reward them a little! It doesn't have to be a bribe or anything tangible. It can even be offering them an interesting role in the plot you're managing, or a public comment like "Hey, that was cool, man!" Then again, it could be a bribe, if you put it to good effect. For example, part of my guild's concept is that people can write "Dreams" that other characters can ICly experience. If a person leaves a positive comment on one of these writings, they're entered into a monthly raffle that offers some really boss character art should they win. (One of my officers runs this amenity, and she's lovely for it.)

This is a really good idea that I'll definitely look toward trying to do, since the idea of punishing people (an alternative I've considered because that's the style I've seen in some other places) for not doing something-or-another doesn't jive with me that much. How I'll reward them is a matter I'll have to consider with my officer team, but providing incentives outside of bribes would probably help breathe a little bit of... Actual Life into the LS.

(01-02-2017, 03:37 PM)Virella Wrote: While I don't struggle with the issue you have, as I have a very other view on this all. I find plots and the like only really work with a small group of people.
In other RP community? Sure, bigger crowds could work, but the chat eating text, the chat in general being terrible to navigate, limited slots in party, the fact we're incapable of making alliances and all basically leaves a lot to be desired in regards of DMing stuff for people.

Personally? If you enjoy those social nights yourself, whether it is attending them or just running them for other people? Continue to do it! But do try to pick out people who are up for plot things. But keep it small you know? Unless you want to run bigger plots, you have to sacrifice more time and/or find more DMs to help you out, but I'm not sure if you want to do that either. Also just because this is what I prefer and works better for me on a smaller scale so far doesn't mean it will work for you, or if it's even the advice you're looking for.

Given the fact that I'll be a second-time(!) GM if I manage to get this plot off the ground, I definitely do feel like smaller groups are better and the absolute limit to the number of people directly involved in what's going on at any given time is probably going to be capped at 7, but there are multiple parts even within parts of the event planned because of how it's structured in order to give anyone who wants in a chance to get in and stuff.

I'd be definitely willing to dedicate more time to run big things though... but unfortunately, the problem lies in people simply not seeming interested in doing any big things. u_u;; This story is my first attempt at a plot so I'm kinda sticking to what I know and what's worked with a group I was much closer with. I would welcome it if people wanted to lend me a hand with running it too... But if people give me radio static when I ask who wants to participate, then it'd probably be like dead silence if I asked anyone to help out with GMing.

(01-02-2017, 03:46 PM)ExAtomos Wrote: Then that may be, in fact, all they want to do. Undecided Perhaps tap a reliable FC member to head up these type of social events that don't interest you personally. Let them have fun with it.

I've actually run into the wall of 'social' crime based rp myself recently with a new LS I've joined. My dude isn't just gonna go to a tavern and declare "teehee, I'm a bad guy" just to see who reaches out to me. That... makes zero sense. lol. In my opinion, this type of rp doesn't lend itself to large scale, social events. One on one or small group? Sure! But we both better have a good reason for speaking to each other about Nefarious Stuff tm.

I can't speak for you and your FC members specifically, but I like tossing out RP hooks either oocly (which sadly, usually don't get responses) or over an IC LS with something along the lines of... *Jo's voice sounds pained as she whispers frantically over the linkshell.* Is... is anyone there? I need help... please, gods... send help." /drama Often you'll get people springing from the woodwork for this.

If some folks in your FC just never interact with the rest and it's like a rock in your shoe, speak with them privately. See what they want from the FC and, if there is just a great wall of a mismatch, suggest they seek another group that may fit their rp style better.

Hope this helps! ^^

I guess I should clarify that in my case it is actually an LS. I don't lead the FC I'm a member of (though I guess some of this advice would be helpful to me in that regard too because I'm an officer there). Actually, the LS I lead is probably the one you're referring to here... Trust me, as a leader, I'm really frustrated with the general atmosphere here because... Yeah. Undecided I intend to hand off social-planning responsibilities to people who actually like doing those things (not that I hate them; I just want something different for the group overall), but getting people to step up to the plate and do that is a whole 'nother can of worms. Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough...

But yes this helps! I'll probably start trying to toss some more IC hooks into the LS soon,and get my officers to do the same; the hooks that set up the combat test minievent were pretty good and seemed to stir up some interest in addition to introducing what could easily become an arc for the LS in general, so I'll see if I can get more of that in particular going...

(01-02-2017, 03:59 PM)Syranelle Ironleaf Wrote: Leading and hosting can be a struggle at times, because you'll always feel like you put forth more effort than most.  The major advice I can give for that is:  don't let it bother you and don't let it discourage you. Have fun, enjoy it, and make the most of the people who DO engage with you. 

As the old saying goes:  "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it."  The same is true for roleplayers; you can create opportunities all day long, but you can't make them partake.  So, just enjoy the time you spend in game, invest in the people who reciprocate that investment and let the rest move on as they will.  You'll be much happier for it, I promise you.  A game should, first and foremost, be fun to log in and play.  Once it starts feeling like a struggle or a job, it stops being fun and starts being obligation.  That includes roleplay as much as anything else.

I'll do my best! o7 And yeah, that realization is more or less why I made the thread; I feel like I spend so much time leading the group around but then they don't really... Do a whole lot. I have a lot of fun playing still, so I guess that's a sign I haven't burnt myself out yet (I think actually enjoying the gears and cogs of making things run semi-smoothly helps with that) with all this.

RE: Getting People Engaged. - ArmachiA - 01-02-2017

Not sure if my experience will help you but I throw up what worked for me. I run the stories in the Night Blades FC and they are very large affairs. We call each arc a "season" and they usually last about 4-6 months depending with about 4-5 months downtime in between. Usually any story has about 20ish people involved.

~ A team is important. While I'm the head, I actually have a team of volunteers who help me guide and run the story. They don't have any actual power with in the FC, they really want to make sure the story stays cohesive and someone is always on to answer questions and relay to me what's been moved ahead plot wise. On top of that, they can be your hype man for you. Make sure you get people you trust here, because if one person drops out it can really eff up everything.

~ Hype is kind of important. I personally don't like a lot of hype, because I think it creates too much expectation that's hard for a team of volunteers to really live up to, but I do see the usefulness in a little hype. For us, it's usually what we like to call "The Waiver". The Waiver is a thread on the forum that says "If you want to be a part of this storyline, you must agree to the Waiver because your character may be hurt. Sign here." This actually creates it's own buzz. "Oh a dangerous storyline?" "What's this about?"

~ Villains are really really important. Not henchman or randos, but actual villains with names and their own motivations. I actually noticed no one really cared in the story the FC was telling until the Villains started invading their space and forcing them to react. Then they wanted to jump in. Honestly, 90% of my GMing life is deciding what the villains are going to do, what their next move will be, what their backstory is, who their going to attack, etc etc. Get that team you trust to roll some villains and make sure you guys actually play them. People like seeing tangible conflict, if you just say there's some seedy person off screen they are less likely to care then if they SEE them.

~ Start small. The very first guild story had a total of 5 people interested. 5. And at the time we had around 25 people. We did it anyway and the small group had such a blast they then kept talking about how great it was in our downtime, which made like 15 people interested in the next one, then 30, then 40 (That got a little hard to handle). Make a great story for whatever audience you have and more will follow when they realize what they missed. There's probably 3 or 4 people in your FC who are interested in bigger, darker plots right now - make a story for them! Once they start talking about how cool it is or how interesting a certain villain is, or how they need to figure out something, it will pique other players interest.

~ Being a leader suuuccckkss. This one is something your going to have to get used to if you plan on continuing this route. It's... really hard to actually get RPers to move because they like their comfort zone and A LOT of them don't want any uncontrolled conflict because they're too afraid of what might happen to their characters (It doesn't matter how many times we say "A GM is not allowed to kill your character without your permission" we STILL get 10-15 "You were going to kill my character without my permission!" complaints per story). You have to earn a lot of trust with the playerbase, because people are very protective of their characters. Just keep attempting and don't get discouraged. Keep saying you won't permanently kill or maim characters, that it's all in good fun, and show them that it is. Eventually, the ones who are willing to engage and have fun will make themselves known.

Honestly, I could go one for pages and pages about being a GM in FFXIV. Since I've been doing it for 3 years I have... a lot of experience for better or for worse.

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Aurou - 01-02-2017

Everyone here has given you wonderful advice thus far! Honestly there isn't too much more to add. The fact that you notice and are acknowledging that you might have a problem is also an amazing first step into setting things on a proper path.

I lead a plot driven FC of 20ish members, we've found that smaller groups are best if you want the story to be meaningful. We are undeniably a picky group (for better or for worse). I have two other leaders that have full access to the plotline and help shape and move the story forward for everyone. We try to adjust the path as things happen, but overall have a planned outline. It's always our goal to have as many people involved in the stories as possible since our size is pretty manageable.

Hype does wonders. You and your officers being excited is important. If you aren't excited, or don't show that you are, why would anyone else be? When we plan a major event we make a post about it on our forums, tack a message in our FC message thingy, sometimes we will drop small things into RP in the days leading to the event, and on the day of the event spam Discord so that everyone remembers. One of our leaders also makes nice little banners to pin to the messages, too. Time put into planning and advertising can really help.

Trimming the fluff would probably be a good thing. These people joined your LS for this certain story and type of RP, right? If they are no longer interested, they need to move along. No harm, no foul. The best thing that you can do to encourage RP and prevent from becoming a social or purely slice of life/tavern group is to keep like-minded people in the LS.

Do you keep a site for things? What about a Discord or Skype group? There isn't a day that goes by where we don't use Discord for chatting, RPing, planning, etc.

Does everyone get along OOC? A huge part of our recruitment criteria has to do with how well a potential member will get along with the rest of the crew. (again, this is extremely important because we are on the smaller side). People are more likely to jump in on events when they are invested in the cause, the characters involved, or simply to support the people running it. We also poke eachother on Discord all the time - 'Hey, does anyone want to do this or that?' 'I want to RP!' 'Shit's going down, who's with me?'

Sometimes being a leader is a thankless job. Keep lines of communication open with everyone. Have meetings (IC and OOC) with your group. Be open for change, and be ready to enforce rules if you need to. I personally recommend having 1 leader per 10-15 members. Always have someone around to answer questions, handle situations, etc. My leaders (I use this term loosely, the three of us are all on equal ground) and I talk about EVERYTHING. If there is a problem that one of us catches wind of, we bring it to leader chat and figure out how to best resolve the issue. Work together to figure out how to get over this RP dry-spell. The three of us collaborate and bounce ideas off of one another on our FC story and how to run each event. We offer to help with any events that our members want to run, as well.

There will be times where not everyone agrees. There will be times where members feel like you're ignoring them, and vice versa. Again. Communicate as much as possible. When (and you really should) you go to prune membership, give everyone advanced notice of your intentions. "In 30 days we will be cutting down on our numbers. People that don't RP will be removed. If you still want to be here, show us that you do!" Have some sort of 'active member' policy and keep it enforced. There can always be exceptions, ie 'RL always comes first, let us know if something comes up - we will put you on a special no-clean list'. Make your intentions known and clear, discuss them with your leaders and membership in an OOC meeting. Hold an IC one, too, if that's how you do things.


Really the best way to lead is to learn from the past. Try things out, and if they don't work change them just a little. Tweak things until you find what is just right for your group. Don't let yourself be too discouraged! Keep at it Moogle

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Tyndles - 01-02-2017

If the group isn't engaging, keep it short. One-off events. Like "help me smuggle this stuff, but thats it" When multiple people do repeat performances to these one off events, make them two parters. But people tend to like bar/slice of life stuff because they don''t have a schedule, they can do it when they feel like it, and if they flake whatever.

But shorter is generally better in my experience.

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Teadrinker - 01-03-2017

Some rpers like the more plot heavy stuff than others. This is just what I've come to accept.

There are things I have just stopped trying to include certain people on. It's waste of time and effort. They, as players, want slice of life RP despite their character's IC tradeskills falling into these specific plot roles. You need to realize that YOU, as a DM (Dungeon Master) cannot FORCE people to work with you or work into these roles. You will kill yourself.

I have HANDED people RP on silver platters and they just....stare at it before dropping it. Once I've isolated that a player is that kind of RPer I move along. I will not break my ass to loop everyone in if they're going to make me enter the damn Konami code every time just to get their participation. You wanna be there? Show up. If not then I'll write the plot and event to cater to a more closed group.

RE: Getting People Engaged. - Caspar - 01-03-2017

I think communicating with the players with innocuous queries can help out with this. You know, just kinda casually talking about what movies you've enjoyed recently, what they've been reading, the other games everyone plays. By doing this you can gain a sense of what genre the players like and try to tailor an event to suit their tastes, or just understand what sort of hooks will grab their attention, such that they'll be more inclined to get invested.

In my experience though, by far the thing that stifles FC RP the most is people separating into couples and small groups and focusing their RP within private rooms. This can cause the players OOCly to become aloof through isolation, basically having no particular motivation to link their characters to the other members of the FC. This should in no way be taken as a statement of what happens constantly or regularly, only that it's what I've observed. You're not necessarily the problem with your FC just because you are really close to another player and prefer RPing with them over others. But group involvement really aids in creating a sense of cohesion between multiple people, and that is necessary to create a larger, more complex story line, I feel. 

Lastly, the creation of an "inner FC" usually composed of officers and original members who keep the level of involvement of newer members to a "supporting character" level. I've seen this before and I can't agree with it. Keeping new members around a lower IC level of significance or proficiency will make them feel excluded. There won't be any incentive for a player to invest within a large story line if their significance within it is next to nothing. Also, and this is just semi-related, but have a strong level of communication between officers and the players. Sometimes players don't buy the story lines the officers are selling because there's a preexisting level of OOC mistrust going on there. In almost all cases I've seen, it's because the officers keep their decisions private and often don't connect well with the members. I remember being very nervous in my first FC because I never really understood the thoughts behind the decisions the officers made, so I had to take it on good faith that they were making the best choice when an event was cancelled or they booted someone without explanation. This in turn made me wary of how active a role I should be taking in their events; should I make myself more visible when I can't really trust the leadership?

I definitely don't always fully understand the whole "SoL" only crowd and really feel the urge to push some sort of more dramatic plot forward, either personally or in a group. By seeding my dialogue with allusions to prior events or hinting at future events, even my SoL surreptitiously pushes players to taking a bigger interest in my character's background, which is basically really bad news, lol. But I also try not to give away *too* much. 

I guess I'm kinda stringing along people this way, and I feel bad that sometimes I'm not able to deliver on making a big blowout event comfortably due to my lack of experience. But I want to entertain and I've managed to do so with small groups of other players. With some practice under my belt and maybe aid from other players, I'm confident I could handle bigger scenes and finally move the plot forward to a degree that makes me feel satisfied. I do really want to run events, but I wonder if I'm capable of it yet.