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+--- Thread: General Lore Questions (/showthread.php?tid=4766)
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 02-29-2016
If the Void has no aether (explaining the voidsent infinie hunger for it), how can we use our own powers once inside, like in World of Darkness? Own personal reserves? Must be hard for conjurers and other classes that take it from around them...
More importantly, if the Void has no aether, then why the hell did the Allagan open a rift with their crystal tower to get access to an unlimited quantity of energy? Is there a Void energy of some kind, as many things seem to point to (since voidsent obviously have power)?
RE: General Lore Questions - Sounsyy - 02-29-2016
(02-29-2016, 06:08 AM)Valence Wrote: If the Void has no aether (explaining the voidsent infinie hunger for it), how can we use our own powers once inside, like in World of Darkness? Own personal reserves? Must be hard for conjurers and other classes that take it from around them...
More importantly, if the Void has no aether, then why the hell did the Allagan open a rift with their crystal tower to get access to an unlimited quantity of energy? Is there a Void energy of some kind, as many things seem to point to (since voidsent obviously have power)?
The Void is, as its name suggests, mostly devoid of aether. Some aether does slip in to the Void, according to lore but quickly becomes corrupted and festers because it can no longer cycle through the Lifestream. This eventually results in what naturalists believe is "umbral-aspected aether" or "gloom." Corrupted aether is highly volatile and does not channel well.
So why can casters such as Black and White Mage cast in World of Darkness? Game mechanics, probably. You can't exactly exclude classes from a raid. By all rights, our characters should not have been able to survive in the Void for as long as they did. The Void begins sapping and tainting ones aether the moment they enter it, like what was happening to Nero. Prior to WoD there's no record of anyone returning from the Void alive.
To answer the last question, the Allagans didn't open the Void for energy. By this point in history (the second reign of Xande) the Allagans had already achieved infinite energy. Using the prayers and contained aether which preserved their form, the Allagans drew infinitely massive amounts of aether from the eikons. Syrcus Tower, in fact, was one such construct which powered the whole of the Allagan Empire using energy siphoned from Bahamut in Dalamud, which in turn was energized by the sun. They didn't need the Void for infinite energy, they needed the infinite energy harnessed by the Syrcus Tower to open a Voidgate large enough for Cloud of Darkness, Lilith, Diabolos, and their vast armies to come through.
So the Allagans had no need of more energy. What the Allagans needed - what Xande needed - was the power of the highest tiers of Voidsent to bend at their command. For years, the Allagans had studied lesser voidsent and used them in their chimerical creations of war. But Xande had been haunted by the darkness ever since his resurrection. He had a different intent for the Void kings and queens, one likely born of Ascian manipulation. Xande wanted to return the world to darkness.
RE: General Lore Questions - Yuella - 02-29-2016
(02-29-2016, 12:07 AM)Sounsy Wrote: Here's some more Duskwight Lore:Interesting. Duskwight might be interesting to roleplay. I already have a character idea. A duskwight student at the lancer guild being bullied by his classmates. Only Ywain believes in him. Becomes good friends with Foulques and has to make a choice in joining Foulques and forsaking the lancer guild.
-Race Lore Compilation (Elezen)
-Duskwight and Gelmorra Interview
-Duskwight Lore Dump
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 02-29-2016
I see... My misconception probably came out of the fact that I did Syrcus when I was a lot less lore experienced than now, which probably left me bad memories and interpretations that sticked after.
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 03-08-2016
Heh, new question... I know I may have an obsession with elementals, but do elementals only live in the Shroud, or can some of their lesser ones, or in a way lesser quantity or organized fashion, live everywhere else? Do we have info on that in lore? I am not sure how to approach their existence (or non existence) outside of the Shroud?
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 03-08-2016
Decidedly, I seem to have a lot of questionnings today... So.
Allagans look like Hyurs right? At least they use the hyur model ingame.Â
We also know that the Hyur came to Eorzea very recently compared to the other races... Which is, way after the Empire of Allag.Â
Are Allagans really hyurs then? Or something else? Or is there a twist somewhere that makes Allag a hyur civilization that rose up in their original place of origin, spreaded all across the planet including Aldenard, and then crumbled, leaving their hyur offspring only in a certain remote place (not Aldernard)?
RE: General Lore Questions - Unnamed Mercenary - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 05:22 AM)Valence Wrote: Heh, new question... I know I may have an obsession with elementals, but do elementals only live in the Shroud, or can some of their lesser ones, or in a way lesser quantity or organized fashion, live everywhere else? Do we have info on that in lore? I am not sure how to approach their existence (or non existence) outside of the Shroud?
Sounsyy has a great lore compilation on them....somewhere. Likely mixed in with the WHM threads.
Elementals are -everywhere-, because nature is -everywhere-. Every tree. Every river. Every forest. (There's an official quote that goes something like that).
They show themselves in the Shroud due to protection from the Hedge. (That's why protecting the hedgetrees is an important task!) Gridania does seem to be the only place where the Elementals have formed some sort of treaty and communication with people, however. Hearers and the Padjals aare so important to the Shroud for that reason.
edit: Adding in Sounsyy's WHM Compilation.
(09-15-2015, 11:12 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: Freelance, as usual, did a beautiful summary of some of the inherent difficulties involving the lore of White Mages. Instead of basically repeating what he said, I'm going to post a few links to the lore behind Conjurers, White Mages, and Padjal and those should clarify most of the gritty details I think. But feel free to let us know if you have further lore questions! ^^
Conjurer Focused Lore
-Conjurer Attire and What the Robe's Color Signifies
-Conjurer and Hearer Lore with Link to CNJ Questline
-Communication with the Elementals
-The Conjurers' Elemental Wheel
-Hedge Trees
-Woodsin Lore Compilation
-What happened to Woodsin?
-Practices of CNJ vs WHM
-Spell Casting Lore
-Stillglade Fane Lore
White Mage Focused Lore
-Padjal Lore
-Padjal Horns Lore
-Is White Magic Even Common Knowledge?
-Lost City of Amdapor Lore
-White Mage Lore
(This thread was sparked by the Amdapor one above. It essentially argued whether Succor is the Elemental's magic that was gifted to the Amdaporians and later the Padjal, or was it originally invented by the Amdaporians and stolen by the Elementals and then regifted to the Gridanians when the Elementals made the Padjal. It's a bit of a read, but there is lore in there somewhere.)
Well-bundled Adventurer Wrote:If you are planning to stay a while, you might want to learn a bit about the elementals.
They reside within all creation, and are the organizing principle at work throughout the world.
The ancient elementals of the Twelveswood are much more powerful and wise than those from other parts of the world.
Hope this helps! ^^
RE: General Lore Questions - Unnamed Mercenary - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 07:17 AM)Valence Wrote: Decidedly, I seem to have a lot of questionnings today... So.
Allagans look like Hyurs right? At least they use the hyur model ingame.Â
We also know that the Hyur came to Eorzea very recently compared to the other races... Which is, way after the Empire of Allag.Â
Are Allagans really hyurs then? Or something else? Or is there a twist somewhere that makes Allag a hyur civilization that rose up in their original place of origin, spreaded all across the planet including Aldenard, and then crumbled, leaving their hyur offspring only in a certain remote place (not Aldernard)?
The Allagan clones we've seen look decidedly Hyur-ish, yes. But we don't really have anything else to go on.
Garleans claim to be the descendants of the Allags, and they also look like Hyurs (that are taller, basically all platinum blond, and have three eyes).
The biggest thing here is that the "history" of when the races came to Aldenard is simply what's taught to people. They have about as much proof as we do as normal players of the game. The Mhachi and Amdaporean zombies we fight in AM HM are all "Hyur"-looking as well. The only thing that's realy been established is that the game tells us the Hyur are the most populant race, and that the last really big batch of them came o Eorzea the most recently.
But also take it this way. The Elezen claim they lived in Eorzea before any other race. But there were civilizations that lived on the land -way- before they ever arrived too. As SE has said in Dev/Lore panels before, we can't really trust the NPCs. They only know what they know, but they might not know the facts. See: Drowned Wench vs Naga claims.
-
Personally, something tells me the Allagans were probably the ancestors of modern Hyur and Garleans. With their technology, they probably spread about the planet. When stuff blew up, maybe it wiped out all the ones on Aldenard. Maybe what was left then genetically engineered their offspring to be unable to cast magic? Maybe some of them didn't like that and went elsewhere? Each modern Hyur and Garleans speculation.
RE: General Lore Questions - Mavis - 03-08-2016
So since my new character is going to dabble in old magics, I have run into a few terminology problems.Â
1. White magic v black magic:
Black mages draw aether from Hydaelyn to fuel their spells, killing the land in the process. White magic draws from the Elementals, however since those are essentially the land around the caster as well, would the effects of excessive use of either art have the same effect on their surroundings?
Also we know from the new Lost City HM that the amdapori managed to use succor not just to heal, but to harm (see Kuribu with her reversed Cure IV and Regen). Given the 1.0 Lore from Thaumaturges, would that mean that Black mages could use their technique to fuel stronger healing spells?
1.5 White magic v black magic casts/spells:
Malicious White magic or Succor is possible as we have seen, however how could it best be portrayed? Given that atleast Regen seems to keep it's original look of a blue field, would it be less "flashy" than what a normal Black mage would use, being less destructive, while remaining harmful/lethal?Â
2. Elementals.
They -are- nature, as already said in the thread. However me and Sil while discussing this had somewhat different opinions. One way of seeing it was that the Elementals resided in the shroud (talking about the big scary ones), but due to their strength they influence all of nature even far beyond the twelveswood, sort of like the roots of a tree. The other point of view being that the elementals are more decentralised, every tree or rock being a "mini-elemental". Any support on which of those is correct, or if both are wrong?
3. Succor=White magic?
We know that the fae the scholars created were made to use Succor. However, is Succor merely a different term for White magic, or is there more to White magic than simply draining the Elementals for healing (or harming)?
RE: General Lore Questions - Unnamed Mercenary - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 06:46 PM)Mavis Wrote: So since my new character is going to dabble in old magics, I have run into a few terminology problems.Â
1. White magic v black magic:
Black mages draw aether from Hydaelyn to fuel their spells, killing the land in the process. White magic draws from the Elementals, however since those are essentially the land around the caster as well, would the effects of excessive use of either art have the same effect on their surroundings?
Also we know from the new Lost City HM that the amdapori managed to use succor not just to heal, but to harm (see Kuribu with her reversed Cure IV and Regen). Given the 1.0 Lore from Thaumaturges, would that mean that Black mages could use their technique to fuel stronger healing spells?
1.5 White magic v black magic casts/spells:
Malicious White magic or Succor is possible as we have seen, however how could it best be portrayed? Given that atleast Regen seems to keep it's original look of a blue field, would it be less "flashy" than what a normal Black mage would use, being less destructive, while remaining harmful/lethal?Â
2. Elementals.
They -are- nature, as already said in the thread. However me and Sil while discussing this had somewhat different opinions. One way of seeing it was that the Elementals resided in the shroud (talking about the big scary ones), but due to their strength they influence all of nature even far beyond the twelveswood, sort of like the roots of a tree. The other point of view being that the elementals are more decentralised, every tree or rock being a "mini-elemental". Any support on which of those is correct, or if both are wrong?
3. Succor=White magic?
We know that the fae the scholars created were made to use Succor. However, is Succor merely a different term for White magic, or is there more to White magic than simply draining the Elementals for healing (or harming)?
1) White Mages still draw from the land as well. It's still up in the air whether the Elementals control white Magic (these days) or if it was something they taught, which the Amdaporeans then abused, which is why they're so strict on who gets to learn it now.
It's important to note that the original 1.0 lore didn't include jobs at all. White Mages and Black Mages didn't exist until after Yoshi-P took over and the battle team started getting more say than the lore team. (Which is why the class skills were all redone and CNJ became more healer-ish and THM became more elemental magic-ish). Prior to that, CNJ had elemental spells and THM had something more akin to blood magic.
Assuming that BLM effectively works like THM with a different (read: BIGGER AND MORE DANGEROUS) aether source, then it's possible that some of the healing spells could be more powerful. But from what I remember, the THM healing spells actively hurt the THM. The spells I can think of would do something like "take ___ HP from THM, heal the party with it."
2) I'd lean towards the latter. The Shroud isn't the center of the world, nor does it control it. It's very possible that because the Shroud is so full of nature though, that its Elementals are stronger. There are many very old Elementals.
3) Again, Succor isn't using the Elemental's aether. It's still through the power of the land. A Scholar's faerie was effectively an artificial mini-Elemental, to my understanding, which is why they could cast those spells. There's likely far more to all the different forms of magic than we'll ever actually get in the game. SE like has a big fancy collection of lore that only internal employees get access to.
RE: General Lore Questions - LiadansWhisper - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 06:46 PM)Mavis Wrote: So since my new character is going to dabble in old magics, I have run into a few terminology problems.Â
1. White magic v black magic:
Black mages draw aether from Hydaelyn to fuel their spells, killing the land in the process. White magic draws from the Elementals, however since those are essentially the land around the caster as well, would the effects of excessive use of either art have the same effect on their surroundings?
Also we know from the new Lost City HM that the amdapori managed to use succor not just to heal, but to harm (see Kuribu with her reversed Cure IV and Regen). Given the 1.0 Lore from Thaumaturges, would that mean that Black mages could use their technique to fuel stronger healing spells?
White Magic, or Succor as it is more properly termed, doesn't draw from the Elementals. It draws from ambient aether just like Black Magic.
Black Magic cannot fuel healing spells because that's simply not how their magic works (Sounssy can explain better than I). When the Amdapori corrupted their Succor to use it for harm, that is when they went all wrong. Succor is not designed to harm others. When it is used as such, that is a great abomination and blasphemy.
Quote:1.5 White magic v black magic casts/spells:
Malicious White magic or Succor is possible as we have seen, however how could it best be portrayed? Given that atleast Regen seems to keep it's original look of a blue field, would it be less "flashy" than what a normal Black mage would use, being less destructive, while remaining harmful/lethal?
Corrupted Succor is described as being every bit as destructive as Black Magic.
Quote:2. Elementals.
They -are- nature, as already said in the thread. However me and Sil while discussing this had somewhat different opinions. One way of seeing it was that the Elementals resided in the shroud (talking about the big scary ones), but due to their strength they influence all of nature even far beyond the twelveswood, sort of like the roots of a tree. The other point of view being that the elementals are more decentralised, every tree or rock being a "mini-elemental". Any support on which of those is correct, or if both are wrong?
From what I've seen in game, I would say there is more support for the latter than for the former.
Quote:3. Succor=White magic?
We know that the fae the scholars created were made to use Succor. However, is Succor merely a different term for White magic, or is there more to White magic than simply draining the Elementals for healing (or harming)?
You don't drain Elementals for anything when you use Succor. It draws on ambient aether, NOT the Elementals themselves. In order to use Succor offensively, I believe you'd need to somehow rediscover the lost techniques of the Amdapori, but then you'd run into the issue of angry Elementals, Padjal, and Wood Wailers after you anytime you stepped near the Shroud (and you'd have to somehow survive Amdapor City). Plus, you'd probably be a bit insane from how you were perverting something designed to soothe and heal into a tool of destruction.
Succor is the proper term for White Magic.
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 03-09-2016
Mh... I read that compilation many times and probably have missed some details it would seem..Â
I'll go with the explanation as well that elementals exist in the rest of the world, albeit in a lot less concentrated and powerful fashion, or at least isolated. Sounds reasonable enough.
Trying to figure out how Hearers would hear things outside of the Shroud, that all.
RE: General Lore Questions - LiadansWhisper - 03-09-2016
(03-09-2016, 05:17 AM)Valence Wrote: Mh... I read that compilation many times and probably have missed some details it would seem..Â
I'll go with the explanation as well that elementals exist in the rest of the world, albeit in a lot less concentrated and powerful fashion, or at least isolated. Sounds reasonable enough.
Trying to figure out how Hearers would hear things outside of the Shroud, that all.
The same way they Hear things inside the Shroud. Most likely, it's quieter and the elementals are less coherent. But they're certainly there, just not as loud.
RE: General Lore Questions - Shoshopu - 03-09-2016
Asking for a friend of a friend:
"This might be a shot in the dark, but I do know there are a few fan-compiled lore references out there... does anyone know about a handy reference for lore on Eorzea's minerals and such? I know the lore is there, from things like the mining leves and such, but it's been so long x.x"
RE: General Lore Questions - Sounsyy - 03-11-2016
I've been greatly distracted by Division... I have lore drops coming soon I promise.
(03-09-2016, 09:37 PM)Shoshopu Wrote: Asking for a friend of a friend:
"This might be a shot in the dark, but I do know there are a few fan-compiled lore references out there... does anyone know about a handy reference for lore on Eorzea's minerals and such? I know the lore is there, from things like the mining leves and such, but it's been so long x.x"
That is a rather large request. Shoshopu, gimme like... four days and I'll get your friend just about everything there is.