Hydaelyn Role-Players
Gender roles - Printable Version

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RE: Gender roles - Berrod Armstrong - 07-26-2014

(07-26-2014, 07:22 PM)Crisiet Wrote:
(07-26-2014, 07:13 PM)Mae Wrote:
(07-26-2014, 05:22 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: But, we digress! This thread was about girls and boys or something. Marriage! Has anyone kept track on which races have 'husband and wife' couplings? I know Lalafell do, and Hyur, from Tam Tara Deepcroft...what about the rest? It doesn't seem to be a part of Original Miqo'te culture...Sea Wolf Roegadyn females have 'wife' suffixes in their names, so maybe! I'm tryyying to think of an instance of Elezen...the guy who lost his lover in Coerthas, I think?
I want to say that I saw it alluded to in one quest out in Coerthas... there was a "my lord" and "my lady" exchange, and in the context I took it to be the same as "my lord husband" and "my lady wife"... another NPC talks about her 'beloved'. To be honest, though, I would assume that the region the NPC is in (or 'grew up in'...) would more often dictate to the husband/wife trends than race or clan.

There is the elezen lady in coerthas that speaks of her betrothed, who was thrown into the witchdrop. There's also the elezen who asks you to retrieve his dead wife's wedding ring for him. I also spotted some elezen npcs in the same zone (Dragonhead, male and female), the female knight says to the other "We cannot keep doing this. Think of your wife." as it's heavily suggested that they're up to something... Naughty. Tsk tsk. 

I'm sure there are several examples outside of Coerthas of married elezen, I just can't quote them off the top of my head.
I'll probably run around Gridania/The Shroud and see if I can find something sometime. I'm curious about what the lore behind 'eternal bonds' is going to be as well!

RE: Gender roles - Kage - 07-26-2014

(07-26-2014, 07:13 PM)Edgar Wrote: That aside, you guys have derailed from talking about gender roles...To who would win in a fight between a Lalafell and anything bigger than a Lalafell.

I don't see how the two are related in any way. *shrugs*
The idea is, is there anything that is considered an equalizer to account for physical differences. Society generally goes on with the idea that women are "lower" because they are physically weaker and not as strong as men. What can be stated as the "equalizer" for females can pretty much be the same reason why Lalafell are considered just as strong and equal in battle as a Roegaydn. Or vice versa.

RE: Gender roles - LiadansWhisper - 07-26-2014

(07-26-2014, 11:12 PM)ExKage Wrote:
(07-26-2014, 07:13 PM)Edgar Wrote: That aside, you guys have derailed from talking about gender roles...To who would win in a fight between a Lalafell and anything bigger than a Lalafell.

I don't see how the two are related in any way. *shrugs*
The idea is, is there anything that is considered an equalizer to account for physical differences. Society generally goes on with the idea that women are "lower" because they are physically weaker and not as strong as men. What can be stated as the "equalizer" for females can pretty much be the same reason why Lalafell are considered just as strong and equal in battle as a Roegaydn. Or vice versa.

Not every society takes that standpoint, even though women in the real world are physically weaker than men.  There's at least one culture that I can think of in New Zealand that is fiercely matriarchal.  I want to say that some subsets of Tibetan society are also matriarchal.  And even though Chinese culture was very patriarchal, women actually ran the family unit prior to the revolution there.

RE: Gender roles - LandStander - 07-27-2014

(07-26-2014, 11:27 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-26-2014, 11:12 PM)ExKage Wrote:
(07-26-2014, 07:13 PM)Edgar Wrote: That aside, you guys have derailed from talking about gender roles...To who would win in a fight between a Lalafell and anything bigger than a Lalafell.

I don't see how the two are related in any way. *shrugs*
The idea is, is there anything that is considered an equalizer to account for physical differences. Society generally goes on with the idea that women are "lower" because they are physically weaker and not as strong as men. What can be stated as the "equalizer" for females can pretty much be the same reason why Lalafell are considered just as strong and equal in battle as a Roegaydn. Or vice versa.

Not every society takes that standpoint, even though women in the real world are physically weaker than men.  There's at least one culture that I can think of in New Zealand that is fiercely matriarchal.  I want to say that some subsets of Tibetan society are also matriarchal.  And even though Chinese culture was very patriarchal, women actually ran the family unit prior to the revolution there.
There are some cultures in India that are the same way. I remember doing a report on a subset of people where the child took the mothers name, the land was in the mothers name, and the child had multiple fathers. Anthropology class was fun Tongue


Men are born with more skeletal muscle tissue while women usually have more adipose, so technically they are stronger than women...technically. Things start to change as the body grows older and you account for physical activities and diet. 

Eorzea seems to be pretty much like the society we see today. Actually a little better as women seem to be deployed to the frontlines alongside men while last I checked the American military seems to frown upon that sort of behavior. I know they still dont allow women onto submarines. All 3 branches of government seem to be held my women as well which should speak volumes about how equal the sexes are treated.

RE: Gender roles - synaesthetic - 07-27-2014

Logical consistency is necessary in any story, not just contemporary fiction. You can't throw logic out the window in fantasy or science fiction. Logically it makes more sense to handwave the difference between the races and sexes with magic than it does to ignore the differences and pretend they don't exist.

Yeah, it's a bit of a cop-out, but it's better than not explaining things at all. And it's vastly superior to race restricting classes or giving major stat penalties. It would suck a lot for lalafell players if all they could be was THM, ACN and CNJ.

RE: Gender roles - Kellach Woods - 07-27-2014

(07-27-2014, 01:08 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: Yeah, it's a bit of a cop-out, but it's better than not explaining things at all. And it's vastly superior to race restricting classes or giving major stat penalties. It would suck a lot for lalafell players if all they could be was THM, ACN and CNJ.

WELL IN REALITY MAGIC DOESN'T EXIST SO THEY'RE SCREWED ANYWAY HAHAHA.

This is why arguing about reality or actual combat is bad. Especially since this is a crafted work of fiction. AKA you decide what happens.

RE: Gender roles - Zyrusticae - 07-27-2014

This is a crafted work of fiction, but in any good work of fiction there is always an internal logic that is (or should be) internally consistent with itself. Stories that fail to maintain this usually suffer for it, unless the lack of consistency is the point (and obviously this is far from the case for FFXIV).

They've visibly put a lot of thought and time into making aether a big part of the game world, going so far as to make primals into beings made of pure aether and making an entire continent whose premise lies on "how do they compensate for a lack of aether". It goes without saying that aether is a large part of how combat works in the game world, and trying to make sense of it without consideration for it just isn't going to get you very far.

RE: Gender roles - allgivenover - 07-27-2014

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RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-27-2014

Hildibrand is freakishly unnatural. That's kind of the point of his story. Tongue

RE: Gender roles - allgivenover - 07-27-2014

My point is that it's a great example of how it's not that important or worth vehemently arguing over. If you want more concrete rules where everything is explained, fine. If you don't care that things are inconsistent (and oh boy are they!), fine. It's just two different styles of RP.


TongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongue

RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-27-2014

Thoroughly confused by the wall of faces. @.@

Hildibrand's unbelievable feats that seem to violate all rules of existence in XIV are generally acceptable because the "authors" recognize that there is something very, very strange going on with that guy (and it apparently runs in the family). At times I get the feeling we're watching a smoke-and-mirrors show with the guy; at other times, it seems he has some legitimate "super powers" (so to speak). Probably aether-induced.

I wonder if Hildibrand is a primal - the coalesced thoughts, hopes, and dreams of every individual who was ever in distress as a result of a crime and yearning for someone to solve their mystery and give them justice.

RE: Gender roles - allgivenover - 07-27-2014

(07-27-2014, 05:01 PM)Naunet Wrote: Hildibrand's unbelievable feats that seem to violate all rules of existence in XIV..

That's the thing, what are the rules? I don't think we could even settle on them if we tried!

The setting is really inconsistent and undefined in a lot of places. If we tried to make a compendium of all the "rules" it would degenerate into endless arguments. Why? Because the devs arn't thinking of RP and lore consistency when they write this material. They don't make these games for us unfortunately (and it would probably be a financial flop if they did, so I don't blame them).

I favor things "making sense" as well, but I quickly realized that getting a consensus about it is going to be damn near impossible.

Interesting theory about Hildebrand, but I think it's just as likely he's comic relief that they didn't put very much thought into.

RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-27-2014

I have no illusions that SE is any different than any other game developer. They think very surface-level when it comes to lore, if that. There's no need to try and convince me of that.

Doesn't mean it isn't fun trying to come up with explanations, though.

RE: Gender roles - Berrod Armstrong - 07-27-2014

On the note of Hildibrand -- isn't he undead?

Edit: OH HE THOUGHT HE WAS AT ONE POINT, NEVER MIND.

RE: Gender roles - Kellach Woods - 07-27-2014

(07-27-2014, 05:11 PM)Naunet Wrote: I have no illusions that SE is any different than any other game developer. They think very surface-level when it comes to lore, if that. There's no need to try and convince me of that.

Doesn't mean it isn't fun trying to come up with explanations, though.
If they were extremely consistent with lore there wouldn't be speculation.

That being said, Hildibrand's existence is an affront to logic. That's why we all love him. Same with Godbert really (okay, I like Godbert because I am a sucker for anyone who does a textbook german suplex in a game where it makes no sense to do).