(06-02-2015, 11:40 AM)Aaron Wrote: A level 10 was just to unlock it. Im saying though is every long standing player had to suffer at least 1 1 - 50 grind. Why would a new player suddenly be able to just do a 30  - 60 and avoid the other 30 levels altogether? That's unfair to the people who grounded all those levels before when they coulda just waited to buy HW, get a 30 - 60 and be in Ishgard with a "lol fuck you" to everything pre 3.0

(06-02-2015, 11:54 AM)Telluride Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 11:40 AM)Aaron Wrote: A level 10 was just to unlock it. Im saying though is every long standing player had to suffer at least 1 1 - 50 grind. Why would a new player suddenly be able to just do a 30  - 60 and avoid the other 30 levels altogether? That's unfair to the people who grounded all those levels before when they coulda just waited to buy HW, get a 30 - 60 and be in Ishgard with a "lol fuck you" to everything pre 3.0

SE Kinda chose, though, to have the three new classes available 1) only to existing and well-established players (I.E. beat the MSQ up to 2.55), and 2) Starting at 30 and not 1.

The point IS that they are specifically targeting the expansion much, much more for giving existing players more to do than attracting new ones.

However, SE is using certain things to advertise this expansion to the public, and those things - new classes, new race, flying mounts - are largely unavailable to someone who hasn't ground through the game yet, with the new race MAYBE being the exception.  This is their choice and their market. What some of us are saying, though, is that it would be more fun and make more financial sense for a little more of the new stuff to be available at least to play with for newer players, and those returning who haven't played since before Ninjas were added, who now will pay but will have to slog through quite a bit to get a good deal of what they paid for. Some are fine with that; others just wanna fly those griffins and use those shotguns and 2-handed swords and tarot card magics they forked out money to get.

And don't think for a moment that you won't see many people coming back who haven't played since ninjas were introduced. I personally know three people from my own old gaming circles who JUST this week are getting back into the game, after a long hiatus, because The New Stuff looks neat.

(06-02-2015, 12:01 PM)Aaron Wrote: Which brings me back to, there is literally nothing wrong with gating HW off save for probably the alts issue.

(06-02-2015, 12:09 PM)Naunet Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 12:01 PM)Aaron Wrote: Which brings me back to, there is literally nothing wrong with gating HW off save for probably the alts issue.

Except that's not how expansions in MMOs are traditionally handled. The worst you have to do in any other MMO expac, if you're just starting or rerolling, is level through some older zones, and generally you can move on to the current content a couple levels before the old cap.

(06-02-2015, 11:54 AM)Naunet Wrote: No, I don't think you should have to do any "suffering" through playing on a class/job you don't want to play on just to be able to go back and mindlessly grind through an area on FATEs and dungeons to level up your actual desired job.

(06-02-2015, 11:47 AM)Gegenji Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 11:40 AM)Aaron Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 11:34 AM)Gegenji Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 11:29 AM)Aaron Wrote: Theres like 12 other jobs that go 1 - 50 + 10 more to 60, if everyone before you came had to have at least ONE 1 - 50 grind , why should the new people get to go from 30 - 60? They didn't earn it and they have to start from the bottom like everyone else.

The issue with this point is really just their decision to get away from the class/job duality. Without having a "starting class" to match the jobs, they could either start it at 1 or at 30 like the other jobs. They went with the latter.

However, ROG/NIN was new and you got to unlock it without doing the 1-50 grind. You just had to reach level 10 in a class and then go to Limsa to get it. I'm not entirely sure why they didn't do the same with the new classes - have you get to 30/40/unlock another job first, then just go pick up DRK/MCH/AST from some location that wasn't in Ishgard proper.

ROG/NIN in itself leveled from 1 - 50

A level 10 was just to unlock it. Im saying though is every long standing player had to suffer at least 1 1 - 50 grind. Why would a new player suddenly be able to just do a 30  - 60 and avoid the other 30 levels altogether? That's unfair to the people who grounded all those levels before when they coulda just waited to buy HW, get a 30 - 60 and be in Ishgard with a "lol fuck you" to everything pre 3.0

Right, which is why I'm surprised they didn't have a method like ROG done with the new jobs. You'd still have at least one 1-50 grind. You level one class (likely a similar or cross-class, like GLD for DRK) to 30/40/job unlock... then level the new job from 30-60.

Instead, you have to level a class to 50, complete the MSQ up to this point, reach the required iLevel to go into the new content, and then go into Ishgard to get a new job that you have to level from 30. It's a lot more work than any other class/job, including ROG/NIN. That's where a lot of the issue comes from, I think.

As I mentioned before, if you just had to get a class (or even a related role) to 30/40 and then could go to someplace outside Ishgard proper to pick up the new jobs... then I don't think there would've been as much backlash.

(06-02-2015, 12:01 PM)Aaron Wrote: But technically speaking to both new and returning players, everything pre HW (100% of it for new people, a portion for returning when they start from where they left off) is /new/ content to them as they've never done it before. Its just not the new content THEY want to go through because they want what all the people who stuck with the game got. (Ignoring personal reasons for leaving or such)

Which brings me back to, there is literally nothing wrong with gating HW off save for probably the alts issue.

(06-02-2015, 12:12 PM)Aaron Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 12:09 PM)Naunet Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 12:01 PM)Aaron Wrote: Which brings me back to, there is literally nothing wrong with gating HW off save for probably the alts issue.

Except that's not how expansions in MMOs are traditionally handled. The worst you have to do in any other MMO expac, if you're just starting or rerolling, is level through some older zones, and generally you can move on to the current content a couple levels before the old cap.

Just because something isn't following tradition doesn't mean its wrong.

(06-02-2015, 12:19 PM)Telluride Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 12:01 PM)Aaron Wrote: But technically speaking to both new and returning players, everything pre HW (100% of it for new people, a portion for returning when they start from where they left off) is /new/ content to them as they've never done it before. Its just not the new content THEY want to go through because they want what all the people who stuck with the game got. (Ignoring personal reasons for leaving or such)

Which brings me back to, there is literally nothing wrong with gating HW off save for probably the alts issue.

Well, no, technically, they don't want what people who stuck with the game got.

They want the new content, the stuff that we ain't got yet, either, because otherwise, they would have been back before, most likely. What we're telling them is "Hi, returning player! Yes, please, money first, no free ride for you... ah, there! Welcome to Heavensward! Did you SEE those dragons and griffins and cool new zone? Bet you can't wait for all that new content you just paid for. We'll see you in Ishgard in a couple of weeks, then... what? You want the new content now? Sorry, you were gone too long, and you're back in the "noob" category. Enjoy running around again... what? Why can't you just get the new class now? Sorry. Those are not for you yet. Have an Au Ra fantasia. Aren't those scales shiny? They might help you get over your disappointment for long enough for the catch-up slog."

This is a biased perspective, yes, but at anytime you're advertising a new product with a new feature, and using it to stir interest, you cannot JUST dismiss this perspective as biased, because to do so cuts off the experiences of people who are willing to pay more money to play a game they already kinda had, but because they want the new stuff, not because the MSQ is just that darned good.

As for gating, I've said all I care to say on that.

(06-02-2015, 12:19 PM)Aaron Wrote: I can see where you're coming from, but the thing is if you already leveled a class to 30/40 then that really was just a waste of time since you'll never use it again probably. And seeing how Yoshi said 1-50 is like a tutorial doing that would be like staying in school till high school and dropping out in the tenth grade. And the next class would be like a GED substitute.

(06-02-2015, 12:21 PM)Naunet Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 12:12 PM)Aaron Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 12:09 PM)Naunet Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 12:01 PM)Aaron Wrote: Which brings me back to, there is literally nothing wrong with gating HW off save for probably the alts issue.

Except that's not how expansions in MMOs are traditionally handled. The worst you have to do in any other MMO expac, if you're just starting or rerolling, is level through some older zones, and generally you can move on to the current content a couple levels before the old cap.

Just because something isn't following tradition doesn't mean its wrong.

No, but when it's unduly annoying to folk, it might be considered poor game design.

Honestly there's a reason I never leveled more alt classes on my main except for SCH/SMN (and the requisite THM levels for WHM). I hate the FATE grind with a passion. >_< Leveling THM and SCH/SMN was an exercise in enduring torture. And really, when I'm playing a game, I don't want to play it to torture myself. The thought that it will be impossible to level AST through standard questing is just so mindnumbing I'm not sure where to start. xD

(06-02-2015, 12:26 PM)Gegenji Wrote:

(06-02-2015, 12:19 PM)Aaron Wrote: I can see where you're coming from, but the thing is if you already leveled a class to 30/40 then that really was just a waste of time since you'll never use it again probably. And seeing how Yoshi said 1-50 is like a tutorial doing that would be like staying in school till high school and dropping out in the tenth grade. And the next class would be like a GED substitute.

To use your own comparison, the alternative is to go through college and get all the way to a Ph.D in a degree you don't want just to get the privilege to start all over again from your first year of college for the degree you ACTUALLY want. Oh, and you have to pay for all those courses, too, on top of all the money you sunk into your unwanted Ph.D.

How does doing a 1-50 tutorial in a class you don't want to play any better than getting to just do 1-30, and then doing the rest in the one you DO? If 1-50 is the tutorial, then you should be spending as much time in it in the class you actually want to play as possible. Since there's no base class for DRK/AST/MCH, the best alternative (to me) seems to be that you should be able to access the job as soon as reasonably possible - which would be after getting a relevant class to 30.

(06-02-2015, 12:19 PM)Aaron Wrote: Sorry I missed this post lol.

I can see where you're coming from, but the thing is if you already leveled a class to 30/40 then that really was just a waste of time since you'll never use it again probably. And seeing how Yoshi said 1-50 is like a tutorial doing that would be like staying in school till high school and dropping out in the tenth grade. And the next class would be like a GED substitute.

Horrible example I know. But best I could think on the spot v.v