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Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Printable Version

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RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Kurt S. - 02-23-2015

(02-23-2015, 08:41 PM)Rotomoto Sunomoto Wrote: Never liked RPing overpowered characters or even just RPing with overpowered folks.. I like my RP simple and fun with character full of soul and personality (Or lack thereof) which in my opinion develops characters much faster.

My sole character that I roleplay Rotomoto is what I consider a "Deteriorating" overpowered character. In his youth he can zip around with such speed that would be difficult to track with the regular hyur eyes.. Now he's an old man that can barely move at that speed, his stamina is low and his strength is faltering. Though he tries his best! So from a 9/10 he's slowly decreasing to 6/10 and so forth, and I'm enjoying it!

You say that but I still think you're a potent, rare and exotic ingredient good sir.

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Desu Nee - 02-23-2015

(02-23-2015, 07:48 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(02-23-2015, 07:05 PM)Desu Nee Wrote: OP characters are never fun unless they aren't serious. They have no capacity for real development, whereas an underpowered has their own strengths and their personality normally and can improve as time passes.
But this is purely wrong.

Someone who is extremely powerful (monetarily, physically, or otherwise) can still develop quite a bit over the events of a story. The circumstances one can find themselves in can create quite a conflict regardless of that power - especially if the situation sidesteps that power entirely and cannot be addressed in that way.

As an example, T'rahnu may be well-equipped to take down any opponent in a one-on-one battle and possess a great deal of wealth, but she is not so well-equipped to make moral judgments and decide who is in the right. She tends to go with her gut instincts, which may or may not make for a positive outcome for all involved. She's also never really gotten over her loss from the Calamity, and someone can easily push those buttons to push her off-balance. Those are two big areas where she can grow right off the bat, despite her incredible martial prowess and rock-solid self-confidence otherwise.

It really bothers me that some folks believe that being weak or average is a requirement for personal growth. That's completely tangential to character development, which is predicated on the idea that people change in many ways besides martial prowess, which is only one and, indeed, often a very small part of a character's total package. It's a very base-level, RPG-derived mode of thought that starting at low levels and going up over time is somehow a virtue and a positive. High-level characters can grow, too - and oftentimes the exercise is all the more beneficial for all involved, since you have to apply more lateral thinking to accomplish it.

Good point. I'm actually ashamed of the comment by now, and I will not add anything else to this explanation, sorry.

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Knight Kat - 02-23-2015

A friend has told me several times that no one wants to play an "ordinary rice farmer". While I agree and understand that, people think too much in a black or white spectrum. Being rice farmer or Superman are -not- our only two options as RPers. There are enormous shades of grey between.

Balance is key. Because, in all honesty, the problem I have with characters who are very powerful is "spotlight stealing". I have seen it happen many times where what is set up to be a puzzle or challenge is easily overcome by a powerful character. How is that fun for the other RPers involved? How is that even fun for the character who overcame it?

I see RP as -sharing- a story. My character will take the spotlight when and if it is her time. She will do so, not by stepping in and bulldozing her way over every issue, but by contributing to situations where her strengths might be useful, and leaving situations in which she may do poorly to others who can do better.

In my opinion, one weakness no one can know about is not enough. A character can be "realistic" and still be extraordinary. Then again, a character can be more "high fantasy" and still have several weaknesses without loosing the extraordinary aspect.

Kiht is neither option 1 nor option 2 on your poll. Depending on what kind of door it is, she would likely kick it open like a bad-ass, but when she finds Ifrit on the other side of said door, she would GTFO of there so fast that she would be gone before Ifrit even finished his monologue about "foolish mortals".

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Caspar - 02-23-2015

The examples used here are too extreme to really be useful, in my opinion.

I dislike overpowered characters who break the lore. I don't however think that making a weak character who is not an expert, or even skilled, at anything whatsoever has innate value. I actually feel the latter is less desirable in some respects because it limits your RP options as opposed to expanding them. (The ordinary rice farmer has no access to RP that involves combat, can't rise above his position without an extremely long and involved RP process that absorbs interaction time for other purposes, etc.) I tend to avoid RP with those unambitious character ideas, because the kind of story writing I do won't satisfy them, and their writing will not satisfy me. Some people are fine with the regular tavern RP and I find it more or less just a temporary diversion. Some would rather have a low key story with little physical conflict, and I like action. We like the same things, but in different amounts. That's just how it is.

My only real expectation is that a character has good reason for being as strong as they are, and the time and effort spent becoming that strong seem reasonable to me. If a character is a genius inventor, that can be interesting, but that focus should likely have created some weaknesses, as tunnel-visioning a skill does to real people. If a character is just strong without reason or does little with that strength, I feel they're not really living up to their true potential.

That and if I make a character that's strong, I tend to slowly weaken them after they hit their story peak, or even kill them off. This is a consistent theme that I've maintained for years with most RP I've been in. ^_^'

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Verad - 02-23-2015

If you're going to rig a poll in favor of the option you like, you could at least try to represent the option you don't in a manner that might interest other people.

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Tiergan - 02-23-2015

I feel like Adventurer 1 is not so much an example of an OP character but one that's sledgehammering the lore into pieces, devouring the remains, and then shitting them out into a fire - so this feels pretty skewed towards the underpowered option.

That said, I like playing characters that are either underpowered, more middle of the road, or characters that are highly skilled in one or two aspects that they devote much of their time to.

To me, underpowered characters can be fun because most people tend to play normal or OP characters and the dynamic between a normal/overpowered character and an underpowered one can be a TON of fun because of the contrast in experience. You get to essentially be a foil to other people's characters - enhancing and bringing out their strengths, which is nice simply because it sometimes makes people feel good about their characters.

Most of my characters tend to be more of the "pretty awesome at one or two skills" variety though simply because when your character exists in a world full of magic, giant monsters, beastmen, Primals, voidsent, magitek, and ancient allagan constructs ... playing the underpowered character cuts you out of certain types of experiences that most normal/OP characters would probably go through regularly - which can kind of be a bummer.

I don't like playing OP characters because I don't really trust my ability to do it without coming off as some huge cliche Mary Sue. I feel like pulling off an OP character well, without making other RPers feel marginalized or like their sense of agency over the RP is being taken away is pretty tough. You have to have a keen awareness of how far you can push boundaries before the people you are RPing with feel uncomfortable and when to stop. Additionally - OPness just seems like a lot of upkeep. For example, if you are a normal or underpowered charactee - losing or winning a duel is no big deal. When your character is supposed to be pretty OP though? Losing can mean you look less badass unless you know how to have your character lose gracefully or in a way that still shows they are pretty powerful.

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Enla - 02-23-2015

I honestly prefer playing underpowered characters. Characters who are either weak emotionally or physically, and will have to earn some incredible fetes of skill and/or luck just to survive the odds set against them. Part of it is due to the fact that I simply have no idea what to do with myself when I have a character who has reached a certain pinnacle from the very beginning, and another is that I very much prefer trying to REACH that pinnacle over months or even years with a single character. The former is definitely a failing on my part, and something I'm trying to overcome along with a few other nervous ticks when it comes to roleplaying specific characters archetypes.

With that said, however, I don't see anything wrong with playing one over the other so long as everyone is respectful and doesn't overstep the bounds of polite RP etiquette. Everything is a delicate dance when it comes to roleplaying, but once you learn the steps I really don't see why you couldn't play even a character that's almost god-tier so long as you're respectful of others and they in turn you.

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Kirann - 02-23-2015

I enjoy the character that tires to better themselves over time , myself. 

I was out questing this week, when I ran into a group rping about the weekly hunt. Amazing , conversation going on as the attempt to look for their intended target. One of them notices me, and asks if i care to join them. Khloe is not that skilled IC but she says sure. I follow along , riding my chocobo with them until we drew some agro from a nearby creature. SorryI forgot what it was, but it was not really something threatening TBH. they go about IC attacking it. So khloe goes to help, daggers drawn she moves around, attempting to spin and slice at it. misses completely, nearly lops of part of her tail and falls to the ground. She stands back up , brushes herself off, in time to watch them kill the beast. 

that is khloe for now.. in time.. she will get better. it might say lvl 50 ninja.. but not ic 


Khloe

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - DrDucker - 02-23-2015

any potato that can ascend to the power of voidsent

deserves our obedience

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Gurren Dai - 02-23-2015

Honestly, I feel overpowered and under-powered can be a bit subjective in RP; after all, what one person views as under-powered can be another person's OP. Granted, I still feel like there are things that are clearly OP and those that aren't.

That being said, I think it's all about how a person plays the character. Each type of character poses their unique challenges. Personally, I like playing characters at a middle ground; Sometimes they have something powerful to back them up, other times they don't, and have to be creative to compensate. Honestly, I love to get creative with how my charterers compensate for their weaknesses, both new and old.

For example, Solaire herself used to be very skilled in magic before she lost her memory. While she still has her Tome and some notes from her prior life, she doesn't have the same knowledge to make full use of her natural talent. As it stands now, she is an average healer and can protect herself in combat, but I wanted to give her the potential to become quite the healer if she can hone her skills.

Ali, on the other hand, doesn't have much in the way of magic. While she is quiet the skilled pugilist, and has some natural strength to back up her punches. But besides this, she cannot heal, and more often than not she can bite off more than she can chew. But she makes up for this by being clever, both in and out of combat; after all, when all you have is your fist and maybe something to cover them, you have to think creatively.

When I look at my characters, I guess I like playing them in a kind of middle ground, occasionally leaning towards one end of the scale or the other. I also don't try to focus too hard on how "powerful" a character is, but rather "does this make sense" for a character. If it makes sense for them, fits what they know or what they could learn from plots, and fits lore, then I may go with it.

Anyways, I've said enough for now. @_@

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - ChewableMorphine - 02-24-2015

(02-23-2015, 07:05 PM)Desu Nee Wrote: OP characters are never fun unless they aren't serious. 
Praise Flynnjesus
[Image: uvRIZzl.jpg]


RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Gaspard - 02-24-2015

I think that, in the debate of OP/Underpowered characters it heavily depends what you're basing your perception of Overpowered on. 

In itself, Overpowered is more of a term that could apply to a game rather then storytelling. being 'above the common level', to the point it seems rigged. In RP terms, this only because valid or important if these characters carry a degree of 'power' they can exert over your character Icly. It implies a degree of 'unfairness' towards other players. 'That dude is OP' or 'That character is OP'. Most times it reffers to a singular characters proficiency, or ability to inflict damage upon another character/exert control over another character.

That being said, since an Open RP setting doesn't have a common 'power roof', or a limit a character can reach, there's no 'bar' one can pass to be officially labelled op (ATK skill over 50, a limit how much your character can own in terms of NPC's / subjects), therein, OP is a purely subjective term. 

Another interesting point ; There's also another degree of OP, and that is when your characters status / setting makes him, compared to his conflicting party, untouchable. Syndicate members come to mind. Compared to a street-thug a Syndicate member can be entirely OP, as he can recruit the help of everyone in the Syndicate (NPC's etc) to shank you, or ruin your business on the basis that the Syndicate own the market you're in.


Then there's ofcourse the 'snowflake' argument. The Sephiroth esque sub-troupe in which your character is imbued with the immortal power of seven dragon souls and twenty echo's simply to 'appear' untouchable should he end up in conflict. It's an indirect attempt to enable god-modding on your behalf, and I treat it as such.



Peronoally, I've always maintained one stance in this regard when it comes to 'Overpowered characters' ; You need to keep in mind that, if you wish to help create a nice story, or RP world, your character from a certain level/proficiency onward has no place amongst common folk. And I believe this is the core issue. There's nothing wrong with playing an almost demigod, but you need to keep in mind that such figures don't just mingle with the common, 'lower' folk.

For a real life example ; You probably wont meet Bill gates hanging out in a pub in Africa. If he will be there for some ungodly reason, he will certainly be there for perhaps a day, and then return to his ivory tower of Microsoft.

For a relevant RP example ; Your created demigod wont sit around the quicksand and throw back whiskeys. He should/will probably be entirely absorbed in using the power he acquired for what he needed it for in the first place. The Hero you play in the MSQ is busy traveling the entire world and saving it from evil and it's impeeding demise, he wont have time to chill out at a FC house and throw back whiskey shots and pester your common trader with his powers.

Infact, even the sadistic, mean spirited evil figures usually wont give two bits about 'peasants' so to speak, they will focus their Ire on those that have slighted them in their personal past or bigger behemoths they seek to conquer.


My point in the end is ; Playing powerful characters is not wrong, but you need to keep in mind that, the higher you push this bar, the further you isolate yourself, because your perceived place amongst the 'common' folk dissappears. That's why Powerful characters make for amazing driving forces in plots (The Hero to lead the Party, the Villain to destroy a city, The Rival to overcome), but they have absolutely no place amongst the common folk.

Now again, this 'middle-ground' where one starts crossing into this or that territory is entirely subjective. Personally, given the setting, I believe there's little we could consider OP. Aslong you create a character, truly stick to his core root and ensure that there's OOC communication between those involved, no one will ever be forced to suffer the 'OPness' of another character in a confrontational situation. 

Now, if you're upset/annoyed over the fact that some people play characters in a goofy, snowflake way; Always keep in mind that other people can't 'force' their characters upon you. in an Open-RP setting you do have more or less the liberty who to involve yourself with, who to play with, and so on. I personally stopped entering 'Out of the blue' confrontations, and much rather discuss such things beforehand.


Now..I've written almost a sermon on the topic of OP here, but to approach the Openings post initial point;

What you're essentially raising as a question isn't about 'Overpowered / Underpowered' But in the quality of writing. You wrote the initial 'Overpowered' example as if it was executed by an 11 year old who just started roleplaying, replying in illogical one liners and when asked who he is will reply 'Demigod and Ifrit slayer.'

In regards of what is more 'fun' to play; entirely subjective, people preffer their own tropes. Some like to have a 'badass' vybe to their characters, others enjoy the sense of playing a 'calm, calculating figure'. It really depends on the individual.

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Enzo - 02-24-2015

I very much like Gaspard's description. I don't really know what my characters would classify as though.
One one hand you have a Miqo'te from Ishgard who grew up a pretty crumby life in poverty and trying to hide his identity to the point where while being extremely social he is also extremely detached from most of everyone. This has its own negative side effects when it comes to his own self created problems or feelings of loneliness and he has no one to turn to. In regards to combat he is "Alright". He is not weak. But he is not strong either. He is mostly learning.

My other character is that which I think pushes some peoples boundaries. He is a Garlean from upper class Society who became a accomplished Engineer. But his thirst for knowledge led him to steal information from Garlemald and this put him in such a pressurized situation that he snapped. He is a extremely knowledgeable person when it comes to Magitek to the point where he will act like he knows almost everything. But his lofty attitude and background isolate him and he is commonly refered to as an asshole who does not know any better. He has a terrible time getting along with other characters outside of an engineering setting and his insanity makes him fearless, for both the better, and the worse. He has pretty much no fighting ability what so ever. But he does have tools that help him run away. And a gun blade which acts as good as point and shoot and to serve for intimidation. (Although that was taken away from him) From a technological standpoint he could be considered overpowered. As well as his knowledge of most things (Because of his good education in upper class Garlemald) but if OPness is decided only by fighting he would be pretty darn weak.

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Iex - 02-24-2015

There are no 'Overpowered' or 'Underpowered' characters.

Characters exist that are different. The perception of a character's 'power' merely comes from RP (as many have stated). A character could be a demi-god, but if they are RPed well and appropriately for the situations they are in and works well with other characters, no one will care. A character could be entirely helpless, but still be fun to RP with despite the weakness.

There is a difference between, a new rper, a "bad" rper, and a character that seems strong or weak. When a character is RPed, the trick comes from rping the character appropriate for the situation and the folks around you. Sometimes some groups your character may need to more mundanely rped and sometimes the RP calls for some nice epic scenes. It all depends on the situation and players in the RP.

I will disagree that 'powerful' characters do not belong with common folk. Powerful does not mean disconnected from society. They may be heroes, rivals, and villains, but they are still people. Given that they aren't 'famous' or 'infamous' to the point the guards would take note, there is no reason a character can't take a day off and 'have a whiskey' with a merchant. The trope and archetype of the character should not take over the character, person before profession.  Naturally... some extremes would prevent that... but in my experience those are normally player created NPCs that are used as major figures in RP.

There was a thread of similar discussion earlier but I realized... I can't find it anymore.

RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Mitzer The Mighty - 02-24-2015

My question is simply what people like to play and why. Nothing more. I'm not interested in either example enough to invest more time than it's worth. I don't believe one is more important than the other, stated from the beginning both are integral to plot. If that managed to offend anyone I think they are reading into it with their own flavor. No need for insults over a simple topic. My only interest is what people like to roleplay and why. As someone who has rped multiple roles from both ends of the spectrum to balance out/ move story along I'm aware of how that works.

My preference is playing the underpowered trope character whose entire role is to bring people together and make the people who are stronger more noticeable. I enjoy the simple connections, the long journey, not entirely what is at the end of the road. That is just my interest. Not everyone is going to have the same interest. There is no right answer. It's all preference.