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Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Eva - 04-14-2010
Quote:It's small cliques of people doing their own little RP's away from everyone else that kill off the sense of community.This is hard to avoid, and from a leadership perspective even the best efforts will fall short at trying to conglomerate groups that simply don't mesh well together or don't want to. Cliques are a way of life, both in RL and in any sort of in-game social network. I spent much of my time in FFXI sort of bouncing between the cliques and never really falling into any one, and that was sort of my existence. It's easier to just sort of accept that it's going to happen, and not to burn any bridges unnecessarily.
As far as the rest of it goes, I did participate in Castiel's RP relating to the Archlich for 5-1 and that was a lot of fun. I had also run most of the CoP storyline in-character with a group of five other RPers. While the group had been established early on and there was really no opportunity after that point for outsiders to join, we were not what I would call 'exclusive' about what we were doing, and continued along with other missions for non-CoP participants in parallel, doing such things as Assaults and coffer keys and the usual gamut of what I guess could best be called 'midgame'. It worked for our purposes, and when it was done many of us made a push to try to get others through the missions, also in an in-character fashion.
I can't say this is definitely the best way, or worst way, of handling such mission-related RP. Every RPer has his or her own preferences. We did make an effort not to come off like we were 'snubbing' those who weren't participating with us though, and never RPed any spoilers or secrecy around those who weren't privy to the mission details. In short we weren't all like, "omg we know something you don't!!"
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Smiling River - 04-14-2010
I didn't like RP'ing the missions... actually I didn't really like missions period. I know the story is great and all, but it makes you feel as if you are a "hero" like no other. SE basically made an MMO full of adventurers who are supposed to individually feel like they are the sole person everything revolves around. I could never fully believe that, knowing that in reality this wasn't true.
There are 3 ways for RPers to approach this:
OOC missions: Simply bypass this idea of individual heroes, do the mission OOC, and IC say that you've gone on some intense adventure or what have you.
OOC/IC hybrid: Basically act as if the mission took place with the people you completed it with, but don't say anything important to anyone who wasn't there.
IC missions: Do the missions IC and act afterwards as if you did complete the objective and/or defeated a specific opponent, as SE would have you believe.
Personally the Hybrid way of doing this doesn't seem genuine to me. If my character were to say, defeat the Shadowlord... why wouldn't he mention it to his close friends? The IC way for me doesn't work either since it doesn't mesh well with the fact that millions of players could say they defeated X boss... then my character would be freaked out lol
So sadly the only possible option is to do missions OOC. Again this is just my perspective, but XI's style of making you feel like a hero didn't work. I hate when they do that in single player RPGs... but in MMOs it just doesn't make sense, even in terms of game mechanics.
I hope that XIV's main plotline will be done differently, or at least have some sense of the community accomplishing goals.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Verranicus - 04-14-2010
Mason Wrote:I didn't like RP'ing the missions... actually I didn't really like missions period. I know the story is great and all, but it makes you feel as if you are a "hero" like no other. SE basically made an MMO full of adventurers who are supposed to individually feel like they are the sole person everything revolves around. I could never fully believe that, knowing that in reality this wasn't true.
There are 3 ways for RPers to approach this:
OOC missions: Simply bypass this idea of individual heroes, do the mission OOC, and IC say that you've gone on some intense adventure or what have you.
OOC/IC hybrid: Basically act as if the mission took place with the people you completed it with, but don't say anything important to anyone who wasn't there.
IC missions: Do the missions IC and act afterwards as if you did complete the objective and/or defeated a specific opponent, as SE would have you believe.
Personally the Hybrid way of doing this doesn't seem genuine to me. If my character were to say, defeat the Shadowlord... why wouldn't he mention it to his close friends? The IC way for me doesn't work either since it doesn't mesh well with the fact that millions of players could say they defeated X boss... then my character would be freaked out lol
So sadly the only possible option is to do missions OOC. Again this is just my perspective, but XI's style of making you feel like a hero didn't work. I hate when they do that in single player RPGs... but in MMOs it just doesn't make sense, even in terms of game mechanics.
I hope that XIV's main plotline will be done differently, or at least have some sense of the community accomplishing goals.
Pretty much. People complain when a person's RP gets too outlandish or their characters become "godly" but what's more out there than your character being the hero of all the mission stories in FFXI?
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Aveline - 04-14-2010
Quote:Pretty much. People complain when a person's RP gets too outlandish or their characters become "godly" but what's more out there than your character being the hero of all the mission stories in FFXI?
Your hero being a fallen angel/risen demon.
Your hero coming from another universe
Your hero being a lesbian vampire with mind control
For a few... Almost all RPGs follow the trope of the stronger-than-life hero (you) saving the day. XI and XIV just add in a bunch of other players.
Yes, I think the cut-scenes should include the rest of your party, but many times in game it is made clear that you aren't supposed to be doing this by yourself. No one can say that XI is a solo game, by any means. To get to the end of the storylines, you have to cooperate with people. MANY people. If you RP the missions/storylines together, it just makes that all the more vivid.
You are supposed to be a powerful adventurer, yes (wouldn't we all be a lot stronger IRL if we ran literally everywhere and had to carry 100 lbs of gear around with us everywhere?), but the game never suggests that you are supposed to be more powerful than the main enemies. That's why you have to go through the missions and quests in teams.
Quote:I hope that XIV's main plotline will be done differently, or at least have some sense of the community accomplishing goals.
The biggest sense of community in the game I ever got was going through the entire CoP storyline with my linkshell. It sadly wasn't a RP linkshell, but it was a close, tight-knit group of friends who I'd never met in person but even after we went our separate ways outside of the game, we still continued to call each other up on the phone just to say hey.
I also don't recall doing Dynamis solo, or Ballista/Brenner by myself, or taking down the lesser gods, or fighting a dragon... all those I had to do with the immense participation and co-operation from friends and shellmates, and not once did I ever feel like I was the sole hero in those instances. In fact the more I think about it, the more I am wondering how you guys could see those things as anything other than teamwork, and intentional teamwork at that on S-E's part.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Tyriont - 04-14-2010
Psst...hey...you know what's awesome about having an RP Coalition? I mean, above all else as far as I see it?
Choice.
It's not wrong to dislike mission RP, nor is it wrong to love it. Some of the most fun I've had RPing was during that CoP static that both Castiel and Kes have mentioned. I've also seen "insular" stories done as part of a larger group without much problem - Renaise tried to kick something like this off before and it worked out great until he quit playing like the evil bearded jerk that he is :p
I can also see disliking mission and in-game storyline based RP for the reasons already listed. That's why the coalition is awesome. It gives a common ground for people looking for one particular brand of RP to find a place that best suits them. Does that mean some groups won't gel too well with others? Yeah, probably. Is that a bad thing? No, not really. Things don't have to be all sunshine, flowers and everyone getting along like the best friends ever 100% of the time.
Personally, I don't think there really needs to be a big discussion over RP/Mission blending. It can just be left as "let each group determine what is/isn't canon in their own way, be respectful of that and don't whine about it" without much more being said. Just ask to add what a group's preference on that topic is to their overall introduction for their "About us" bit (or whatever we're calling that type of thing) when we go live. That way people know what to expect from members of each group.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Smiling River - 04-14-2010
I might as well mention again that I do not reject the game's lore. It's wrong to say that "well... if you aren't RP'ing the missions then... well your character is a blood thursty demon-vampire half-breed!" Let's not get carried away, this is just another extreme. It also shapes the game (ignoring the lore) around just that character, similar to someone saying the game lore declares that their character is the hero of all time... both these positions taken too far go full circle.
I was just saying that it is a matter of preference, but also that it's the developers fault IMO. I mean, you can't tell me that XI did not make your character feel like the center of it all. The couple of things that were more communal (felt like a small part in a big battle) were the Conquest, Besieged, etc. But these things didn't influence the story, as far as I know. But they did change the world in which the characters lived, which was awesome. I'd prefer that to happen all the time. If your character is really a paragon, then they'd perhaps have the trust of a legion of players and be a commander of sorts... I donno.
Quote:Almost all RPGs follow the trope of the stronger-than-life hero (you) saving the day. XI and XIV just add in a bunch of other players.Yeah, I pointed this out- and don't you think it's ridiculous for an MMO? I mean, at the very least it's conceded. RPGs used the same formula (which I thought would go away by now) since their creation. It's more plausible in an RPG though.
Mythis, I am not referring to teamwork that is required to get many things accomplished in the game. I am talking about the story. While you may need anywhere from one other person to 17+ others to defeat certain bosses, the actual story is not effected by this. IF you could solo them, nothing would change in terms of the CS or the major plot. I am agreeing with you to an extent. But I am also aware that there is a disconnect between the whole community fighting off beastmen (teaming up) and the plotline, CS, etc..
RP'ers adapt to this in different ways is the main point... but I am trying to say that the fact they we all HAVE TO adapt to it is the fault of developers who used 'traditional' RPG style of story-telling in an MMO. Either way, if you are to take your character seriously in XI, you have to make compromises.
This is an example: (spoiler alert?)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_uZ7jSO-sM&feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_uZ7jSO ... re=related</a><!-- m -->
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Verranicus - 04-14-2010
You can't assume the worst of the people who don't stick to the mission plotlines like glue. Not everyone who RPs without using the quests/missions as a backbone pretends they're Sephiroth's half brother.
All of my characters in any MMORPG have been reasonable and flawed. None of them had superhuman strength or any powers that wouldn't fit with the game lore. I never had any trouble coming up with my own ideas for long term stories, and when my friends and I did do missions while in-character we would tweak them to be more reasonable, like Castiel mentioned with the 5-1 lich.
And even if someone was running around pretending to be Goku trapped in a Lalafell's body, you can at least talk to people like that and explain to them (most of the time) why they're being ridiculous. I'd rather deal with people like that the the insular groups that act as if they personally slew the Shadowlord and are personal friends of Aldo and the President of Bastok, etc.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Eva - 04-14-2010
What I think a lot of people don't realize is that strengths and powers are overrated, and weaknesses and shortcomings are really what make characters unique and interesting. Up to this point, I've given most of my characters a plethora of weaknesses and maybe one or two "strengths" which sometimes themselves turn out to be more of a curse than a blessing. Case in point - Dyterium on the surface was a strong knightly type who was admittedly very strong but was shown to possess no actual powers aside from some difficult-to-interpret visions/dreams. His shortcomings were much greater. He was extremely stubborn (there was always much talk of the Zelorius stubborn streak, and pretty sure Kes will inherit some of this). He was socially inept. He grew to have severe trust issues, and as a result had a difficult time retaining friendships and throughout RP had very few close friends. Physically he had a visual impairment where bright light hurt him. His close ties to his wyvern (which while a bit 'supernatural' possibly, were a very far cry from overboard) were more often a source of weakness than of strength. He was never meant to be very attractive - a bout with one of Castiel's characters' avatars left him with scars across much of his body. His one redeeming quality was always his unwavering loyalty to the things to which he dedicated himself.
While a pretty big tangent, I just wanted to point out that I've always found weakness and "the human element" to be far more interesting than strength. It seems to me to be more inviting to conversation in many instances than always talking about how great and awesome people are. Maybe that's just me though.
To conclude, and to get back on track though - I make no assumption about RPers based upon whether they choose to carry out RP involving mission stuff. I will admit I've always thought it dangerous to tie one's storyline too closely to existing NPC's (i.e. Cid's illegitimate son, Trion/Piejue's secret half-brother, etc.) But RPing missions and such, so long as nobody gets snubbed, has always been ok in my book. I guess like many of our debated discussions, perhaps this is a spectrum as well, and I find myself right around the middle of it with a fair amount of leeway in both directions.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Aveline - 04-14-2010
Quote:I might as well mention again that I do not reject the game's lore. It's wrong to say that "well... if you aren't RP'ing the missions then... well your character is a blood thursty demon-vampire half-breed!" Let's not get carried away, this is just another extreme.
LOL I wasn't attacking anyone or getting carried away, I was responding to the question 'what's worse than making your character the main hero?" I just listed a few examples that I've seen.
It seems like people are getting really touchy on this subject, but I'm not sure why. We all just have different ways of approaching the game itself. I personally absorb all the aspects of the game itself into my RP. Even if say, taking down a dragon is done with a group that contains only 3 RPers, I would put that incident into my character's personal history of the game, and include those RPers in it.
You're right that if a mission COULD be soloed the game wouldn't care, but really that's up to you then to chose if you want to solo it or if you want to approach it as a group. That's a decision only you can make, not the game.
But anyway, like it has been said, this forum is not for deciding the intricacies of how all linkshells will approach roleplaying. A discussion like this will most likely be had many times over within each individual linkshell, and once those linkshells have been decided, then we can all go to whichever one best suits our RP styles.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Merri - 06-07-2010
So, completely off the subject at hand, but, i'm curious.
It's been awhile since anyone has touched this thread, and I know how things can take a turn for a worst in the matter of a week. Are any of these Roleplaying linkshells still active? (And by active, I mean still having RP occurring every other day or so.)
Aion just released their 1.9 patch, and it honestly has made the game even worse than it was before. They just mutilated the economy. That, doubled up with the fact that i've grown tired of their neglect and inefficient work ethic. Knowing NCSoft's track record, I honestly only see it as a matter of time before they shut down western servers.
I've canceled my Aion account, but, i'm debating whether or not i'de really want to return to FFXI. I've always preferred to be a full-time Roleplayer, and I really do believe i'll go a bit crazy without any RP to sate my hunger. So, finding a Roleplaying linkshell would be a must for me. If anyone has any leads at all, i'de really appreciate them. ^^
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Blade - 06-07-2010
Hey there Promyvion. ^^
TalesOfVanadiel is still very much active and recruiting. Right now our schedule is based on how often people can attend sessions, this is usually twice per week, past couple weeks people have been busier than usual so it has slowed down a bit. I usually try to schedule in a social RP (none-mission based) at least once per week, usually on a Tuesdays or Saturdays, and a mission RP which moves our characters through the plotline. We had a back-to-back RP this weekend this past weekend (Social on Saturday, and Mission on Sunday). It has a side effect of being a mission static. This is not, however, a mission static that does some RP. This is an RP group that does missions, and the missions serve as a means for our characters to get to new places and explore all the details Vana'diel has to offer. We try not to rush these missions, and take the time to soak up as much material as possible.
Although we adhere to a schedule, it is really only an attempt on my part to set a 'minimum' level of RP. People are able to and encouraged to start up their own RPs, and the shell is a sort of 'open forum' for characters. There is definitely room for people to do more outside of the two days I set aside for it, its only a matter of finding out when works best for people. I know one girl in our group who is only there for RP, lol, I don't see her ever leaving city zones unless its to go RP.
I think we are a great group and definitely worth a look into. We have a lot of people here who are excited about RP, and excited about their characters. I'll be forward and admit that our shell is not without its flaws, as it originally emerged as just a story between three friends starting out their adventuring days until what it is now: a group of 6-9 working to stop the Zilart's plan. As we get more and more people (and have doubled and tripled the amount of people we started with), the rules have had to be adjusted and tweaked to help keep people on the same page. We are very much a work in progress, lol. Actually there are a couple new measures that I've proposed on our forums this past week, by all means if you join up with us, you will be able to (and encouraged) to give your say on these rules.
That all being said, I'll let you be the judge of whether to pursue us or not. ^^ My forum signature should have a link to our forum website, check out the OOC for IC forum for information regarding our rules (as well as the proposals I am making). If you like what we have listed, feel free to join and post up a profile, and comment on things. Considering how particular RP groups to tend to be, I'd encourage you to make a mule on Siren and have my introduce you to the crew first, to see if this seems like the kind of people you'd enjoy RPing with, and maybe have you sit in on an RP if you want. ^^
Send me a PM if you need any additional info or have any questions (either on this forum or on our forum)
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Nanapariri - 06-07-2010
Sfant Umbra has a weekly RP night so I guess you don't consider it "active" by your definition.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Merri - 06-07-2010
Err, I didn't mean to offend, if I did. Simply put, in FFXI I don't exactly have any goals i'de like to achieve. I've completed all the expansions, leveled five jobs to 75, and geared them up fairly well. I feel like i've accomplished enough.
I tend to game an hour or two, sometimes more, every evening. I just think that if I didn't have a fairly active Roleplaying community to immerse myself in, i'de grow bored and just end up leaving once again.
I also understand that those expectations are extremely high for FFXI, due to it's dwindling roleplaying communities. But, I posted for the sake of doing so, as I really have no idea what's still alive out there.
So, before anyone jumps to conclusions on what I will and will not consider (Of course, I will admit that I was extremely vague and misleading originally), i'll take a glance at any and all information.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - headlessorpheus - 06-07-2010
As someone who hasn't had much experience with FFXI, why exactly are the RP communities there dwindling? Also, do you think the dwindling state of RP in FFXI will be brought over to FFXIV come launchtime? I plan on trying to convert as many of my roleplaying friends from LOTRO, AION, and AoC to FFXIV come release . . . from what I've read so far of the game's lore and so forth, there is a whole lot of potential! Hopefully they game will have as much support as LOTRO has given to its community instead of say, what WAR gave to its loyalists.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Kylin - 06-07-2010
The problem with FFXI's RP community is the fact that it started out so fragmented. There was no "RPC" or anything like it (although such a group formed briefly later in FFXI's life, but it was too late). Role-players were scattered from server to server. By the time server transfers came about, it wasn't possible to get everyone united under a single banner since a) people had non-RP friends they didn't want to leave behind and b) many probably weren't willing to shell out the cash for the actual transfer. Thus, each server's RP group naturally went about their own business with little regard to any other server's Rp groups. These RP groups were certainly still successful, but one could easily argue that the true potential of the RP community was never really reached.
It's really a shocker that FFXI's RP community is even still alive at all. There are only about 3 RP linkshells left in the entire game. It's truly amazing to see role-players still hanging on with such small numbers remaining. It's also depressing to know that once those 3 shells eventually fade, so too will RP itself pretty much fade away in Vana'diel. I myself was fairly depressed when it came time to write the endings for my Sylph characters back in December.
Quote:Also, do you think the dwindling state of RP in FFXI will be brought over to FFXIV come launchtime?
In short, no. FF14's RP community is -already- far more successful than FF11's even though the game hasn't launched yet. With 5 RP guilds (6 if you go through with making yours) ready to go already and -hundreds- of potential role-players waiting in the wings, it's safe to say we'll see a very nice RP community that will thrive for years to come. This time around, we're fully prepared
