Hydaelyn Role-Players
Liberal police state - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Liberal police state (/showthread.php?tid=11677)

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RE: Liberal police state - shotgunbadger - 05-18-2015

I came expecting a joke, got a legitimate cry of 'police state' and 'removal of agency' over funny pictures. Excellent.

Also can I just say I hate the whole 'I'm from EUROPE where we use humor blurgh blurgh blurgh' whenever something like this comes? Like, you're not a satirist being censored, you made a dumb post and mods said 'nah'. Wrapping yourself in a flag as if you're speaking truth to power is just kinda gross. It's like if when I get an infraction I start being all 'oh I'm sorry I'm AMERICAN where we fight and die for our freedoms and you're silencing my voice like King George tried to do and blaaaaaaaaaarp'. It's just such a gross thing to invoke over something so petty as Pretend Elves.

RE: Liberal police state - Melkire - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 03:53 PM)Dogberry Wrote: See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

There's no ban on them.

Quote:•Spurious off-topic posts, including meme images and patent nonsense.

Also this, which we'll be amending soon since recent edge cases brought it to our attention (pending change in bold):

Quote:•Creating posts and/or topics whose purpose/title is sarcastic, belittling, or intentionally provocative in a negative manner (i.e., "baiting").

What that translates as is essentially "don't post image macros or 'memes' if your post is going to be off-topic, or dismissive, or might derail the thread." That doesn't say "don't post memes" or "don't be funny". That's simple enough to avoid anyway if your post contains more than just the meme in question.

If there's an issue in the language, I invite folks to work with us to fix said language. PMs. Multi-PM a la conference. Start a thread. Something. In the meantime, I'm going to take your suggestion, Dogberry, right now to the admin boards and see if that wording is something we want to use in an update to avoid confusion through clarity.

I sent someone a PM earlier today asking them to maybe just add a sentence or two to their post so it was more than just a GIF. I got a response that made me feel like I was being accused of stealing candy from a baby.

All of that said,

1. This isn't a democracy. This is a privately-run website that accepts donations as public contributions to otherwise private funding. If FreelanceWizard decided tomorrow to close this website down, it'd be gone. No, that's not happening (it's sad that I have to clarify this, otherwise some folks would jump to erroneous conclusions, but there you go).

2. We're being more than fair (and we're being transparent!) Which is ironic given that responses such as the OP effectively break THIS rule:

Quote:Section 3 - Discussion & Prejudiced Comments

•Attempting to undermine moderator actions/decisions.




EDIT:

(05-18-2015, 04:00 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: Probably being a reactionary libertarian...guilty as charged. But the RPC is still part of the Internet, which has its own narrative regarding free speech and censorship.

[takes Moderator Hardhat off]

As a libertarian myself, I find this thread in poor taste. It comes off immediately as negative instead of addressing the issue in a positive constructive manner. For example, thread title "Can We Please Clarify This Rule?" followed by questions and suggestions would have been much, much better.

[puts Moderator Hardhat back on]

RE: Liberal police state - Dogberry - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:00 PM)Seriphyn Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 03:53 PM)Dogberry Wrote: See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

However, please, NEVER compare anything that happens on this site to actual politics. It's never equivalent. It's never thought-provoking. It's never clever.

Probably being a reactionary libertarian...guilty as charged. But the RPC is still part of the Internet, which has its own narrative regarding free speech and censorship.

I'm not going to expect people to agree with refusing to compartentalize a forum based on playing pretend and the politics of the Internet, but for me, people being able to post what they want falls into the wider topic of self-determination. It is a forum for pretend-players. But those pretend-players are real people, still.

And I give tumblr so much shit for taking things so seriously.

If all you have is a hammer...

RE: Liberal police state - Dogberry - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:04 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 03:53 PM)Dogberry Wrote: See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

There's no ban on them.

I think what people are experiencing here is a gap between the rules and the enforcement of the rules.

RE: Liberal police state - Kellach Woods - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:05 PM)Dogberry Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 04:00 PM)Seriphyn Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 03:53 PM)Dogberry Wrote: See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

However, please, NEVER compare anything that happens on this site to actual politics. It's never equivalent. It's never thought-provoking. It's never clever.

Probably being a reactionary libertarian...guilty as charged. But the RPC is still part of the Internet, which has its own narrative regarding free speech and censorship.

I'm not going to expect people to agree with refusing to compartentalize a forum based on playing pretend and the politics of the Internet, but for me, people being able to post what they want falls into the wider topic of self-determination. It is a forum for pretend-players. But those pretend-players are real people, still.

And I give tumblr so much shit for taking things so seriously.

If all you have is a hammer...

...all you need is a sickle for a new outlook on life?

Sorry, that's the tamest I can be.

RE: Liberal police state - Kage - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:04 PM)Melkire Wrote:
Quote:Section 3 - Discussion & Prejudiced Comments

•Attempting to undermine moderator actions/decisions.
Appeals to moderator actions go to Freelancewizard by the by, from the user who was "punished" I assume.

RE: Liberal police state - LiadansWhisper - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:04 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 03:53 PM)Dogberry Wrote: See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

There's no ban on them. 

While I don't agree with how this thread was started, and feel the title is prone to baiting, I have to say that the impression I've gotten is that they're absolutely banned.  When images appear (to me) to be "on-topic," they still get warnings.  So the impression I've gotten is no images, because you never know if you're going to get warned or not.

RE: Liberal police state - Seriphyn - 05-18-2015

This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

RE: Liberal police state - LiadansWhisper - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:14 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

It's totally important to call out those in charge of a community when you feel their decisions are incorrect.  But, there's a difference between calling them out and insulting/baiting them.  One is productive, the other triggers an immediate defensive response.

I think you're right to speak up, but I do think you should change the title of the thread.  Just my $0.02.

RE: Liberal police state - Hammersmith - 05-18-2015

Huh.

It's almost like this is a private community with pre-set and posted and known rules and not a democracy.

Huh.

Fancy that.

Huh.

RE: Liberal police state - Dogberry - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:14 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

Yes, this is why we're so frustrated that you brought real world politics here in a discussion that does need to happen, but in a even-keeled and level-headed way. There is no need for such hyperbolic rhetoric. Responsibility goes both ways, and this is something you need to take responsibility for. Your title was intentionally divisive. Your insistence on making this a for reals political issue is a problem. You've compared us unfavorably to tumblr, but you're the one crying actual oppression.

It's not that serious.

That said, there is a problem. And problems have scale. Overzealous moderation is not the god damn Khmer Rouge.

RE: Liberal police state - Sailor July - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:16 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 04:14 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

It's totally important to call out those in charge of a community when you feel their decisions are incorrect.  But, there's a difference between calling them out and insulting/baiting them.  One is productive, the other triggers an immediate defensive response.

I think you're right to speak up, but I do think you should change the title of the thread.  Just my $0.02.

I agree with Liadan. Like I said a moment ago, there's a big difference between mature discussion and jumping to something as serious as a police state (and or baiting). I mentioned a petition for this reason. That way, the community can rally to change something if they feel it's incorrect.

Note: I will admit that I definitely have been in communities with a rules that I felt were too strict. But I still followed them. Eventually, they did change.

RE: Liberal police state - Bryn - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:04 PM)Melkire Wrote: I sent someone a PM earlier today asking them to maybe just add a sentence or two to their post so it was more than just a GIF. I got a response that made me feel like I was being accused of stealing candy from a baby.

I hope you're not referring to our conversation there, Osric. I'll admit that I was upset by the 'Pre-warning Notice' I was given after posting the .gif in the thread I made earlier, but I made sure to put my points across in a reasonable manner.

Quote:All of that said,

1. This isn't a democracy. This is a privately-run website that accepts donations as public contributions to otherwise private funding. If FreelanceWizard decided tomorrow to close this website down, it'd be gone. No, that's not happening (it's sad that I have to clarify this, otherwise some folks would jump to erroneous conclusions, but there you go).

To this I would say; who is the website being run for? On a theoretical level, if everyone decided to up and leave right now, what would be the point of it? The RPC isn't a personal project, it's a community.

RE: Liberal police state - Verad - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:14 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

As a member of this community, what on earth makes you think you're speaking for me?

RE: Liberal police state - Melkire - 05-18-2015

(05-18-2015, 04:07 PM)Dogberry Wrote:
Melkire Wrote:There's no ban on them.
I think what people are experiencing here is a gap between the rules and the enforcement of the rules.

(05-18-2015, 04:08 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(05-18-2015, 04:04 PM)Melkire Wrote: There's no ban on them. 

While I don't agree with how this thread was started, and feel the title is prone to baiting, I have to say that the impression I've gotten is that they're absolutely banned.  When images appear (to me) to be "on-topic," they still get warnings.  So the impression I've gotten is no images, because you never know if you're going to get warned or not.

I'll provide an example with this post, then.

Quote:[Image: image.jpg]

^^^ This is not okay. ^^^

Quote:[Image: image.jpg]

Admittedly, this image comes off as dismissive and inconsiderate, but bear with me for a moment.

I feel that what a lot of folks are overlooking here is intent. If you've something of substance to contribute to the discussion, and it's not dismissive or derogatory in a vein that will result in drama, inevitable thread moderation, and thread locking, then you can post it, along with whatever images or videos or such that you like, and expect not to receive a formal warning for it.

Now, if you receive a PM to bring the matter to your attention and perhaps even discuss it with you, all without receiving a formal warning, that's one thing. That's workable. I don't consider that heavy-handed. It's opening a dialogue.

I don't consider the case the OP brought up heavy-handed either, though there might exist a need for an open dialogue, perhaps a thread, wherein users and staff can communicate. Users ask for clarification and/or make suggestions, staff respond and update as need arises. That would be a constructive thread, one worth having, something positive that isn't... this thread. Hence "overreacting". This site is a forum and a resource for roleplaying. I don't think claiming the sky is falling when it isn't constitutes an appropriate response.

Now, might it be alright if I lock this thread and immediately open a new one in the vein of the aforementioned Clarification thread for folks to discuss the rules by asking questions/making suggestions? Or would folks rather this thread not be locked and discussion allowed to continue in a matter that I, personally, think won't amount to much more?

^^^ This is okay. ^^^