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+--- Thread: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people (/showthread.php?tid=11932)
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Mae - 06-06-2015
Garlean materials.
The people who use guns the most are the most likely to have developed materials to stop bullets. If the possibility of being shot at with a gun on a regular basis enters Kara's mind, she'll be mugging Garleans on a regular basis for materials to line her clothes with.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Caspar - 06-06-2015
Don't be where they're aiming.
More seriously, I always figure the more blantantly superhuman characters can dodge or catch bullets if paying sufficient attention. This is a problem that can be dealt with better armor, or armor specially designed to deflect bullets or blunt their momentum for lower-powered characters.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Aduu Avagnar - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 02:04 PM)Caspar Wrote: Don't be where they're aiming.I refer you to this video:
More seriously, I always figure the more blantantly superhuman characters can dodge or catch bullets if paying sufficient attention. This is a problem that can be dealt with better armor, or armor specially designed to deflect bullets or blunt their momentum for lower-powered characters.
[youtube]Fk3uXwn_OQg[/youtube]
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Edgar - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 02:15 PM)Nako Wrote:(06-06-2015, 02:04 PM)Caspar Wrote: Don't be where they're aiming.I refer you to this video:
More seriously, I always figure the more blantantly superhuman characters can dodge or catch bullets if paying sufficient attention. This is a problem that can be dealt with better armor, or armor specially designed to deflect bullets or blunt their momentum for lower-powered characters.
[youtube]Fk3uXwn_OQg[/youtube]
This thread in a nutshell.
Sometimes, we need to remind ourselves of the rule-of-cool-biased batshit insanity of this game's setting.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Gegenji - 06-06-2015
One should also note that the ARM capper quest has materia-reinforced Cobalt armor (not Darksteel or anything stronger) holding up against Merlwyb's guns. And even the non-reinforced mail held up for a bit before the guy collapsed.
So, one can assume that anything cobalt or stronger can likely work to deflect bullets. And, if not, melding materia into it obviously can, so melding to higher quality material should also work. It likely won't help the light armor wearers, but I would figure if those in heavy armor are wearing melded-Cobalt or better... they should be fine to deal with basic firearms.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Caspar - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 02:31 PM)Gegenji Wrote: One should also note that the ARM capper quest has materia-reinforced Cobalt armor (not Darksteel or anything stronger) holding up against Merlwyb's guns. And even the non-reinforced mail held up for a bit before the guy collapsed.Yeah, and it was chainmail too which classically I think wasn't super great against ball ammo? Not certain. If even their chainmail can block bullets and not be pierced, driving small bits of chain into the wound, as it would be at some points of history irl, then I'd say making bulletproof armor is pretty possible. It must be, since the Garleans still wear armor; if they had rendered it obsolete from the use of gunblades, they would have stopped wearing it entirely and just kept Eorzeans at a distance so that melee combat is never an issue.
So, one can assume that anything cobalt or stronger can likely work to deflect bullets. And, if not, melding materia into it obviously can, so melding to higher quality material should also work. It likely won't help the light armor wearers, but I would figure if those in heavy armor are wearing melded-Cobalt or better... they should be fine to deal with basic firearms.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Verad - 06-06-2015
I've been supplying low-quality materials to firearms manufacturers for years. With the rise of the MCH class people are starting to catch on, but it will take years more before guns that can't penetrate cardboard are entirely cleared out of the market.
It is only through these efforts that we are not a Garlean province. You're welcome, Eorzea.
Also something something anime, low fantasy isn't the standard, when will somebody make an MMO that caters to that already?
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - OttoVann - 06-06-2015
I don't think comparing flintlock pistols to what machinists will be getting and saying cobalt wins out is a good argument based off of the ARM quest. If a recall it was a chain piece as well.
I guess I'm looking at this from a crafters standpoint and not an adventurers standpoint
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Coatleque - 06-06-2015
As a Paladin, Coatleque practices her barriers along with her sword skills. No, it won't stop a targeted onslaught, but I figure the common "protect" spell is enough to stop one or two before it collapses. I think of it like a 'mass effect' field (if you've played that game), only it can be recast at will so long as the caster can keep focus and has enough aether.
How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Flashhelix - 06-06-2015
Mostly what's already been said, if firearms weren't able to be fought via:
- aether fuckery
- sufficiently durable armor
- or straight-up being able to swat bullets out of the air because we live in bullshit anime world
That being said I can predict many OOC bitchfights centered around "BULLSHIT YOU CAN'T DO THAT TO MY BULLETS" "YEAH I CAN"
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Gegenji - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 03:26 PM)OttoVann Wrote: I don't think comparing flintlock pistols to what machinists will be getting and saying cobalt wins out is a good argument based off of the ARM quest. Â If a recall it was a chain piece as well.
I guess I'm looking at this from a crafters standpoint and not an adventurers standpoint
I'm not saying cobalt will win out. I am merely stating that there are materials already existent that could be, as has been alluded to earlier, a kind of equivalent to Kevlar. Either on its own, or bolstered by the melding of materia to it. And, as such, can serve at least somewhat as a defense against arms fire.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Kellach Woods - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 03:35 PM)Flashhelix Wrote: then I don't think there'd be anything stopping Garlemald from just running roughshod over Eorzea. In a lot of ways, Eorzean magic could be seen as a counter or equivalent to Garlemald's firearms, but there has to be some reason why people bother taking swordsmen/pikemen/whatever into battle instead of just a bunch of mages.
Because Garlemald itself is using a bunch of swordsmen/pikemen/whatever.
The rank and file don't have firearms, this is backed by both cutscenes and in-game. Surely there's something to their tech that makes it so its exclusive only to the top brass.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - OttoVann - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 03:57 PM)Gegenji Wrote:(06-06-2015, 03:26 PM)OttoVann Wrote: I don't think comparing flintlock pistols to what machinists will be getting and saying cobalt wins out is a good argument based off of the ARM quest. Â If a recall it was a chain piece as well.
I guess I'm looking at this from a crafters standpoint and not an adventurers standpoint
I'm not saying cobalt will win out. I am merely stating that there are materials already existent that could be, as has been alluded to earlier, a kind of equivalent to Kevlar. Either on its own, or bolstered by the melding of materia to it. And, as such, can serve at least somewhat as a defense against arms fire.
But which kind? Do your breastplates stand up as well to Virara slashing at them with knives compared to me slamming on them with a Great Axe?
This is my point. Not everyone runs around with flintlock pistols. Some will run around with machinist arms that are a Great Axe equivalent compared to a Flintlock pistols Knife.
I dont really know if there is a right or wrong answer to any of this, just speaking aloud from the crafters side of things.
And you know, speaking of melding materia or aether-modifying armor, refer to this post I made. I've had Otto on that sort of subject for a while. http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11359&pid=184119#pid184119
It might have answers for crafters to made armor that can stand up to the Great Axe firearms we will be seeing coming.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - TheLastCandle - 06-06-2015
Personally, with my mini-Machinist, I don't plan on roleplaying his gun being much more effective than an aetherically charged arrow. It's a compensation for the fact that he's not capable of using aether.
RE: How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people - Zelmanov - 06-06-2015
Using the Futures Perfect cutscene, you can see that most of the time the traveling bullets are visible. This is quite impossible in the real world, even old timey flintlocks managed to fire at velocities much faster than the human eye could see.
Given that we can see these bullets, one may argue lower velocities, velocities that could be dodged for the more combat inclined.
I do believe, especially when it comes to the MCN of Eorzea, a majority of the power of them comes from a combination of tech and Aetherial hand waving. They might punch hard, but their visual representation shows them to be quite slow.
Then of course you have Merlwyb against the Sahagin and her bullets are like those light gun games.
In the end, if your character couldn't off set an arrow, guns are no more dangerous because everything to your character may as well be classified "deadly". If your character is someone who is in the line of fire anyways and is rocking hard armor, ala Dragoon, or a tank class or some ironworks gear, just remember that BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA is still a thing. Even people wearing kevlar still get stunned/knocked on their asses when hit.Â
actually, even if you are in typical leather rogue gear, just use aether as justification for shrugging off a hit. We live in a universe that full on ACKNOWLEDGES that armor possesses enhancing attributes to make one stronger, smarter, more dexterous. Armor in this world doesn't just increase your vitality and defense, which would be the best in game indicators of having tougher armor, but increases everything and they worked it into the canon. So maybe you got some good gear.
Also, rule of cool, any person who chooses a gun to get a one hit kill button in RP is not someone will be fun to play with anyway. A good RP'er gets his ass handed to him as often as he dishes it out if his goal is to pick fights with other players.
And yes I acknowledge that as one of the "Too cool for school" jobs I kinda get a free out anyway with jumps, jumps don't always work with a 6 foot ceiling >_>