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+--- Thread: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... (/showthread.php?tid=11947)
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Caspar - 06-07-2015
I'm pretty tired of it myself. The new thing seems to be Europaboos, as far as I've noticed, since Historical European Martial Arts is getting more exposure these days. They are similar to the stereotypical MMA elitist.
Sure these styles may be ostensibly practical, but at least to me they lack visual appeal. Admittedly though, I'm always going to exhibit a Chinese bias. Since it's not a matter of practicality, I think something that merely looks cool like a scythe is fine. What matters most to me is what the weapon or prop says about your character's background and their personality. What if an assassin who favors the scythe DID come from humble farm origins? I think that would make a lot of sense, personally.
To me the sentimentality attached to a weapon is an important rp tool. Even in modern fantasy settings, I made sure to chose weapons for specific character driven reasons, despite it being the age of mass-produced guns and impersonal bullets. The Chinese called the jian the scholar's weapon because it genuinely was considered "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age," and in fiction it tends to occupy a romanticized position because of that. It's things like that I want to bring out with a wider variety of tools to work with.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Blue - 06-07-2015
I'd like to see clothes of the Industrial Revolution era. Bland colors, average looks, nothing extravagant. I feel there is way too many extravagant clothes in-game.
But more than anything else, I'd pay blood for a damn plain T-shirt. It's crazy we can have stuff that looks like it came out of Tron, and not a T-shirt. The closest we have is Tabards, and alas my mages cannot wear those.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Rahal - 06-07-2015
Scythes were never used in history as actual weapons. Why use something to impracticable when a Polearm does the same thing? Scythes are just way too unbalanced and top heavy to make an effective weapon.
Sickles however? Yes there are plenty of examples in historical manuals depicting various European Martial Arts (usually in Germany and Italy), as well in various Asian Martial Arts (Mostly South East Asia). The point of balance is in a position where they are much more nimble and less tiring to use in combat.
EDIT: Also whoever mentioned Chinese Swords? YES! A dozen times yes! I would love to see a good Dao in this game. Dynasty Warriors has me in love with the Dao and the Jian (even if the Jian wasn't used in combat)
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Aaron - 06-07-2015
(06-07-2015, 05:02 PM)Rahal Wrote: Scythes were never used in history as actual weapons. Why use something to impracticable when a Polearm does the same thing? Scythes are just way too unbalanced and top heavy to make an effective weapon.They actually were used by farmers for everything ranging from defense from coyote and wolves attacking live stock (if they didn't have a gun or better yet had guard dogs with em) to the revolutionists in the AR war.
Sickles however? Yes there are plenty of examples in historical manuals depicting various European Martial Arts (usually in Germany and Italy), as well in various Asian Martial Arts (Mostly South East Asia). The point of balance is in a position where they are much more nimble and less tiring to use in combat.
It's still a object that can very well kill a person.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Caspar - 06-07-2015
(06-07-2015, 05:02 PM)Rahal Wrote: Scythes were never used in history as actual weapons. Why use something to impracticable when a Polearm does the same thing? Scythes are just way too unbalanced and top heavy to make an effective weapon.We see a lot of characters on here who only engage in fights sparingly. A thin, jian-like sword might be really suitable for them as an rp prop, similar to a rapier.
Sickles however? Yes there are plenty of examples in historical manuals depicting various European Martial Arts (usually in Germany and Italy), as well in various Asian Martial Arts (Mostly South East Asia). The point of balance is in a position where they are much more nimble and less tiring to use in combat.
EDIT: Also whoever mentioned Chinese Swords? YES! A dozen times yes! I would love to see a good Dao in this game. Dynasty Warriors has me in love with the Dao and the Jian (even if the Jian wasn't used in combat)
As for the scythe, I think you could say it falls under the category of improvised weapon, like using a pitchfork or a saw, which really could kill someone, just not maybe as efficiently as a war weapon.To an rp character with anywhere from incredible skill to superhuman abilities, this is a moot point.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Rahal - 06-07-2015
That's the thing, when people mention farmers fighting with improvised weapons it is usually something like a sickle or pitchfork they grabbed from the field. Or maybe a wooden pole to use as a quarterstaff. Or maybe they fashioned a makeshift spear out of something. Or maybe they even just grabbed a hatchet and started using it like an axe.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Caspar - 06-07-2015
(06-07-2015, 05:08 PM)Rahal Wrote: That's the thing, when people mention farmers fighting with improvised weapons it is usually something like a sickle or pitchfork they grabbed from the field. Or maybe a wooden pole to use as a quarterstaff. Or maybe they fashioned a makeshift spear out of something. Or maybe they even just grabbed a hatchet and started using it like an axe.The distinction between the hatchet and the axe can get kinda blurry at times haha.
I wanted to be able to use my botanist axes as glamor for my Warrior. I mean, if you do that, you could go into a dungeon looking like an angry farmer, which might honestly be the extent of some characters' combat ability.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Uther - 06-07-2015
(06-07-2015, 04:53 PM)Aaron Wrote: I know very well the scythe is meant to be symbolic. Writing off a fantasy game just because they use s cythes as weapons if frankly a little too unrequited. Even in real history the use of s cythes as weapons have been documented "Revolutionaries in the American Revolution had farmers who used s cythes along with other things because they couldn't afford weapons."
Nothing remotely wrong with a scythe in a fantasy game. Hell it's been showcased IN FF before (Sice from type o uses one (two even)).
Not calling a personal front on you just a clear up. But the unconditional hatred towards stuff that seems even remotely anime is a little ridiculous (talking to everyone not you)
It's been used as a weapon of necessity, not a weapon of choice. It has a blade and a handle, so it beats trying to punch a guy in a life or death situation. In the middle ages, peasants slung rocks from slings of cloth, but I'm sure they would have preferred a sword and shield. Using the closest device that can kill a man in a time of desperation isn't evidence of it being a good weapon. I would grab the scissors if some guy tried to strangle me to death in an arts and crafts store, but I'm not about to take them to Afghanistan with me. Scythes were available because they are farming tools, but those people would've chosen a bayoneted musket or a sabre over a scythe 100% of the time.
As for it being used in Final Fantasies before, this is very true. It has been. And I can still remember grumbling about having to equip one because it had better stats than my greatsword in FFXI.Â
Concerning unconditional hatred towards stuff that seems even remotely anime: Idk how many people hate things that are anime-esque in a game like this. This seems pretty anime centric, and being such, you are totally in your right to suggest scythes and wacky hair-dos and asymmetrical clothing. Seriously. If you were going to do it in any game, this would be the one. It's a Final Fantasy game after all. If this were LOTRO I'd be pretty vocal about my distaste for it. As it stands, though, I don't like anime and I never will. Sorry. It just doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. I've given it a fair chance multiple times and it does nothing for me. I can't get into the recurring plot tropes (not an insult. Every medium has recurring tropes), I don't understand Japanese humor, and I'm not a huge fan of the art style. But I've also been reading comic books for eighteen years and some people have similar complaints about that, so I can't be too harsh.
When it comes down to it, people are all looking for different things in the same game. Disagreements happen, but that doesn't make anyone's opinion invalid. Yours or mine.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Aaron - 06-07-2015
(06-07-2015, 05:08 PM)Rahal Wrote: That's the thing, when people mention farmers fighting with improvised weapons it is usually something like a sickle or pitchfork they grabbed from the field. Or maybe a wooden pole to use as a quarterstaff. Or maybe they fashioned a makeshift spear out of something. Or maybe they even just grabbed a hatchet and started using it like an axe.If it had a edge, a farmer would use it. Scythes probably had the biggest blades around back then so they would use those especially against wolves for the range.
However do notice, scythes are comfortably portrayed in fantasy as efficient weapons by humans. Why? Because fantasy humans don't suffer the same physical limitations as real humans. Especially Final Fantasy characters. See bloodborne for example. No REAL human could do this.
[youtube]GlybZFSRuuk[/youtube]
Skip to around 1:20.
^ is that REALLY so far fetched for a FF ARR character to pull of to the point you will have people going "my immersion is ruined because that random guy is using a scythe."
Like really?
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Rahal - 06-07-2015
There's really no difference. An axe is an axe at the end of the day, which is any they were so popular to carry around. Tool that can double up as a perfectly fine weapon? Yeah there's a lot of appeal there and would like up perfectly with someone playing a common soldier for example that maybe can't afford a more expensive weapon.
I mean you could have a specially crafted axe for fighting with a better point of balance with the head made of steel, and a nice tough wood (Hickory is tough, but it's not native to Eorzea). But an axe is an axe. It's a simple yet highly effective weapon that actually takes as much skill as a sword to use well.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Caspar - 06-07-2015
It'd be good if you didn't argue too much about it. ^_^'
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Aaron - 06-07-2015
Oh no we aren't! I think.
I generally love weapon discussions.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Uther - 06-07-2015
(06-07-2015, 05:20 PM)Caspar Wrote: It'd be good if you didn't argue too much about it. ^_^'
Why? We're having a discussion.
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Rahal - 06-07-2015
(06-07-2015, 05:22 PM)Aaron Wrote: Oh no we aren't! I think.
I generally love weapon discussions.
Yeah we aren't arguing. He's saying "I want this weapon. I'm saying "I'd like more practicable weapons and think these would work better instead."Â
RE: If you could introduce a certain prop or piece of gear... - Uther - 06-07-2015
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing in a public forum. The idea that we all need to put down our singular opinion and ignore (or even worse, unanimously agree with) the posts of others is pretty counter-productive to fleshing out a strong community.