(07-07-2015, 06:45 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: The dialogue repeatedly states that while Lolorito desires power (as does any human), he equally values stability.

(07-07-2015, 06:48 PM)Verad Wrote:

(07-07-2015, 06:45 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: The dialogue repeatedly states that while Lolorito desires power (as does any human), he equally values stability.

I mean, sure, we can pretend nation-states are run by moustache-twirling villains rather than nuanced individuals who may/may not have justified their own patriotic morality.

Well, since you gave me permission - that's one hell of a moustache-twirling villain. For somebody who values stability, he has made a specific point of not working to bring Ul'dah into the Garlean fold. There's not even an argument against him losing power within those circumstances, because we have seen non-Garlean characters earning acclaim and power within their ranks.

Sometimes these characters aren't actually that nuanced, but we justify them as such because we'd really prefer them to be. It gives us the story we want in our heads.

(07-07-2015, 06:52 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Like Kale said, he really just might be a patriot, and is doing what he thinks best for the long term stability of the nation, besides selling it out.

Lolorito has gone to a lot of trouble to become top dog of the monetarists,  I doubt he wants to bow the knee to anyone, Emperor's included.

Yes he technically is below the Sultana, but it's pretty clear he runs things.

(07-07-2015, 06:53 PM)Verad Wrote:

(07-07-2015, 06:52 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Like Kale said, he really just might be a patriot, and is doing what he thinks best for the long term stability of the nation, besides selling it out.

Lolorito has gone to a lot of trouble to become top dog of the monetarists,  I doubt he wants to bow the knee to anyone, Emperor's included.

Yes he technically is below the Sultana, but it's pretty clear he runs things.

So not actually that interested in stability, then. Definitely twirling his moustache.

(07-07-2015, 06:58 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Plus, Garlemald is far less stable than Ul'dah. The new emperor had to fight a war of succession to gain power.

(07-07-2015, 07:07 PM)Verad Wrote: It's also somewhat difficult to believe his rhetoric regarding the value of competition within a prosperous nation when he has literally hired goons to kill a man on the off-chance he might become an economic competitor.

(07-07-2015, 07:04 PM)Intaki Wrote:

(07-07-2015, 06:58 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Plus, Garlemald is far less stable than Ul'dah. The new emperor had to fight a war of succession to gain power.

If we're accepting everything in-game sources tell us as true ("Lolorito values stability") then we also have to accept as true the lore that came in... 2.4 (I think) where it was confirmed that the new Emperor had completely and totally crushed all opposition to his rule and now controlled an entirely united empire.

(07-07-2015, 07:14 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: can we talk about how gridanians are jerks worshiping creatures that don't give a fuck about them now?

(07-07-2015, 07:42 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Also, why gridanians claim to mete out justice anywhere that isn't the shroud even if they have no real legal power outside of it.

(07-07-2015, 10:57 PM)Graeham Wrote: It's a shame that complex morality is lost on a lot of people who insist on treating elements of the story as black or white. Most - if not all - of the nations that we've seen in-game have their perks and drawbacks. Very few are without redeeming qualities.

This does, in fact, mirror the real world in many ways throughout our own history. For all the bad things associated with the Roman Empire there was, in fact, a lot of great stuff to come out of it - and if it didn't exist our culture would be exceptionally different in the present day.