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+--- Thread: Lore check request (/showthread.php?tid=12522)
RE: Lore check request - FreelanceWizard - 07-10-2015
(07-10-2015, 11:57 AM)Sin Wrote: It's an ancient, forgotten powerful magick, and to the bumpkins of most of Eorzea, beset on all sides by primal forces it will seem nearly sacrilegious.
That's an excellent point, and one well worth bringing up. While Eorzeans are generally an accepting lot, Big Magic like Summoning is likely to draw more than a bit of attention, most of it not good. From people shuttering their windows and slamming their doors in fear, to guards who want to know what your endgame is, to a variety of political forces who'd like to use you for their own gain, Big Magic demands attention -- attention you may not (read: probably don't) want.
(07-10-2015, 11:57 AM)Sin Wrote: Also you get a super cute carbuncle to play with.
This is why I want pet glamours. I miss my carby.
RE: Lore check request - Syranelle Ironleaf - 07-10-2015
What about being a Hearer that is so closely-attuned to the Elementals that one follows the character around out of curiosity (or perhaps as a test / observation to ensure Mankind is still trustworthy.) Â I know Hearers are Conjurers by lore, but it seems like a fun/interesting idea in my head. Â I'm sure Lore Purists are facepalming as they read this, though... XD
RE: Lore check request - Unnamed Mercenary - 07-10-2015
(07-10-2015, 12:22 PM)Syranelle Ironleaf Wrote: What about being a Hearer that is so closely-attuned to the Elementals that one follows the character around out of curiosity (or perhaps as a test / observation to ensure Mankind is still trustworthy.) Â I know Hearers are Conjurers by lore, but it seems like a fun/interesting idea in my head. Â I'm sure Lore Purists are facepalming as they read this, though... XD
I could have seen this possibly in a 1.0 timeline setting, but with the Calamity and how the Elementals were weakened? The more sentient ones are probably unlikely to do so. (Although, I should be quick to point out that the 1.0 WHM clothes were literally an Elemental).
The lesser elementals, like the annoying ones we fight left and right are a bit different in nature to an Elemental.
As a SMN or within the game, I would steer clear of it personally. In writing? I could see it working out better.
RE: Lore check request - Thorgar - 07-10-2015
not to derail the thread but i was under the impression from the game dialogue that Primals showing up was far more common. after i killed Ifrit in MSQ, and dealing with the grand companies it seemed that they had to put down ifrit time and again. the language used made it seem far more common than just a handful of times.
where does it state that it has happened only a couple of times total?
RE: Lore check request - Melkire - 07-10-2015
It's more that we, the players, only witness a handful of primal summonings. This makes it difficult to determine conclusively how frequently the primals are summoned by their relative beast tribes.
Clearly, if they were summoned and promptly defeated every few days, the main character's assistance in putting down the Primal thread wouldn't be treated with the impact that NPCs seem to place upon it. Not much meaning to the Scions' assistance if it's a routine task.
RE: Lore check request - Blue - 07-10-2015
RP what job you want. If the game makes it possible, then it respects the lore. It's not more lore-breaking than choosing to be a Garlean or a Padjal or whatever else the game does not provide as an option.
The only golden rule is do not flaunt it, do not make it the sole focus of your RP. "I'm a summoner and..." "See, us summoners..." "That is why as a summoner..." over and over and over in your RP lines will make people irked, but otherwise, no one will give a damn at what class you're RPing, and I say this as a year-long WHM RPer who has never encountered an arched eyebrow so far.
RE: Lore check request - Yssen - 07-10-2015
(07-10-2015, 12:49 PM)Thorgar Wrote: not to derail the thread but i was under the impression from the game dialogue that Primals showing up was far more common. after i killed Ifrit in MSQ, and dealing with the grand companies it seemed that they had to put down ifrit time and again. the language used made it seem far more common than just a handful of times.
where does it state that it has happened only a couple of times total?
No where at all. The implication from both 1.0 and 2.0 onward is that the beast tribes regularly summon their primals. That is what they are going after crystals for. That said, one could debate the frequency of when a primal is summoned to go into full combat rage mode, or just to temper/drown/whatever a new batch of servants. It is also debateable what power level a primal has when it is summoned. All that is required for every primal summoning is a large amount of aether, but the amount of aether and technique seems to be a determining factor.Â
The Grand Companies are largely tied up preventing the hostile beast tribes from gathering enough crystals/aether to summon them. The fact that primals can only be dissipated and not killed is a factor. Hence the Alagans and others coming up with more permanent and strange solutions to the primal problem. I mean, look at Odin. Odin pretty much shows up when ever he damn well feels like it, it is part of his nature.
RE: Lore check request - FreelanceWizard - 07-10-2015
(07-10-2015, 12:51 PM)Melkire Wrote: It's more that we, the players, only witness a handful of primal summonings. This makes it difficult to determine conclusively how frequently the primals are summoned by their relative beast tribes.
Clearly, if they were summoned and promptly defeated every few days, the main character's assistance in putting down the Primal thread wouldn't be treated with the impact that NPCs seem to place upon it. Not much meaning to the Scions' assistance if it's a routine task.
I tend to feel that the primals defeated by the Main Character are especially potent or otherwise dangerous summonings -- particularly given the recent battles with the Garleans that have left the Grand Companies weakened -- which is why the Scions end up getting involved. It's not that primal summonings are exceedingly rare, it's that city-threatening and persistent summonings are. Leviathan is an interesting case, as the instance destroyed by the Main Character in the MSQ is first time Leviathan's been summoned in quite a while (at least so far as the Maelstrom knows), but we also know that's because the Ascians just recently showed the Sahagin how to do it. There's surely nothing stopping them afterwards once they know how, other than access to crystals.
An interesting point is that HW seems to make out summoning primals as a fairly simple act once you know how to do it, if you have the right tools (knowledge, aether, image, and will). The Ascians' game seems to be to spread this knowledge as much as possible, knowing that those in fear will have the image and will, and all they then need is the aether to make their dreams into reality. Each summoning weakens Hydaelyn and moves things closer to their end game.
RE: Lore check request - Riven - 07-10-2015
Hmmm, this is all really useful! Â I didn't know the history involving the summoner or any major magical class was that complicated.
RE: Lore check request - Jana - 07-10-2015
Hello! I play a Summoner IC so I thought I should add my thoughts, though most of what I'd say has already been said.
My character is an adventurer with the Echo who was actually present and helped slay the Primals she can summon, Titan and Ifrit. (She's also ICly fought Ramuh, thanks to Dogberry's events, but cannot pull an Egi out.) I took the approach that "Primal summoning happens a bit more than we see in the MSQ," which not everyone agrees with, but I feel is acceptable within the game's lore. People can't even seem to agree on just how common the Echo is for adventurers (and laypersons).
My character is also very paranoid, and takes her status as a Summoner more seriously than the characters around her often do: She's very hesitant to pull an Egi out with strangers around due to the reaction ordinary people should have to it (adventurers don't seem to care much at all though)!
It's not incredibly difficult to make it possible for your character, but you do have to take into account how the game presents magic, Allagan magic in particular, before you go around blasting everything with Evoke!
RE: Lore check request - Kellach Woods - 07-10-2015
Also, IIRC you only need to experience a Primal Summoning once - the other times you get the pets this whole point is never mentioned.
And the start of 50+ has you try to summon an Egi of the later MSQ primals and that summoning fails.
RE: Lore check request - Kaniko Niko - 07-10-2015
Though not a Summoner, I can offer a tidbit about Black Mage:
Being a Black Mage isn't uniquely locked like the White Mage is. What IS locked, however, is the Warrior of Light's protection from black magic. There is very little difference between a Thaumaturge and a Black Mage storywise. The issue is that the way a Thaumaturge channels aether.
Without the Gem of Shatotto, the Black Mage soul gem, you have a soft cap on how much aether a person can manipulate before his own inner life-aether reaches criticality and starts to get rather...
Fissile.
Boom.
RE: Lore check request - Yssen - 07-10-2015
(07-10-2015, 06:38 PM)Kaniko Niko Wrote: Though not a Summoner, I can offer a tidbit about Black Mage:
Being a Black Mage isn't uniquely locked like the White Mage is. What IS locked, however, is the Warrior of Light's protection from black magic. There is very little difference between a Thaumaturge and a Black Mage storywise. The issue is that the way a Thaumaturge channels aether.
Without the Gem of Shatotto, the Black Mage soul gem, you have a soft cap on how much aether a person can manipulate before his own inner life-aether reaches criticality and starts to get rather...
Fissile.
Boom.
Just a side note. It is very much up for debate how gated WHM actually is. I mean, Y'shtola is a WHM. She is Sharlayan and was born and raised there, she is not even the Archon that was assigned to the Shroud. This in no way eliminates the idea that one should come up with a good story to explain stuff, but that is pretty much an across the board thing. One should always come up with good story to explain stuff. Yar.
RE: Lore check request - Jana - 07-10-2015
Y'shtola's a Conjurer, actually. Her special magic is Sharlyan in origin and doesn't draw upon Succor as far as we can tell.
RE: Lore check request - Shoshopu - 07-11-2015
Shoshopu's also an IC Summoner! She has a Leviathan-egi, so mostly she uses it in my FC's Skype RP, and she doesn't whip it out in public places (except Camp Bronze Lake, once). She doesn't often bring summoning up in public either unless people ask her what she does, and they let her go on for long enough that she gets to that. She always starts with "I'm an arcanist."
She certainly can't use any of the new stuff, the post-50 abilities, mostly because those are <REDACTED> related and she's got nothin' to do with that. She's essentially still just an arcanist but she uses a Leviathan-egi instead of a Carbuncle, but she's always looking for opportunities to learn more, and figuring out unique uses for her egi that she couldn't use her Carbuncle for.
I'm of the same mind as Freelance Wizard in that primal summonings happen more frequently than people might think. That thinking opens up a lot more exciting RP opportunities, IMO. Feel free to send me a PM if you wanna talk shop or ask specific questions about how I RP it! o/