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Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Printable Version

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RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Lydia Lightfoot - 09-08-2015

(09-07-2015, 11:36 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: It should also be noted that 'hermaphrodite' is considered dated at best and distasteful at worst. Think of it as akin to 'tranny'; just not a term anyone should have used to begin with.

Dated, yes.
Distasteful, no (it's a medical term, albeit a dated one, as you mentioned).

Is intersex the more generally used term in clinical discussion in 2015? Yes.
Is intersex the more generally used term in pop culture and media in 2015? Not yet.

Is nitpicking which medical term is used in a forum thread productive? Not really.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Gone. - 09-08-2015

(09-08-2015, 12:02 AM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: I play an Au Ra who is intersexed.  She actually has a pretty hard hate for the state of her body, and wishes she was fully female.  She identifies as female, and the state of her body only comes up if someone shows interest in her and things lead to a bedroom situation, or if someone happens to get on top of her for some fashion, and suddenly gets confused by the extra parts.  It's a constant underlying thread of her existence, because it does happen to be part of her body, but it isn't the core focus of any RP for her. 

As for using the term hermaphrodite (leaving out the sociopolitical aspect of things), consider the time period that is represented in the game.  Especially in certain areas (Ishgard), they may not even have the term used, as it has a mythological root (greek gods), and is technically a more scientific term.  That said, I tend to go with more spiritual-esque terms.  Zehra refers to herself as 'twin-souled', but 'dual-sexed', or 'dual-bodied' also works.  It depends on the feeling you want to give your writing.  There are all sorts of terms out there, but the one I use is meant to reference the fact that she is intersexed.

I see nothing wrong with playing a character who is one or the other, or a mixture of both sexes, as people so see fit.  Approach the character as a serious character, and you'll be fine.  Include it as a singular part of the whole of the character, and people shouldn't have a problem.  Approach it as a fetishist representation of something in a strictly ERP context, and people will likely get upset or draw away from you because that isn't what they 'want to be associated with', as if that aspect of RP is somehow dirty or wrong (psst, it isn't).

I haven't yet worked on Zehra's wiki, but I will, and when I do, I'll reference it, probably in part of her backstory, as well as in her physical appearance.  But it's just another fact of who and what she is, and that's how it should be treated.

I'll let other people tell you the reason not to use certain terms.  I've never cared about being specifically politically correct, so I won't jump on that bandwagon.  As far as 'snow-flaky', that's like walking up to an actual intersexed individual and telling them, 'you're a snowflake because your body is different, you should change it'.  This is meant to be a part of your character that has serious and lasting impacts on everything from their mental well being to the way they might be treated by partners with who they want to become intimate.

Just like with any other character trait that is 'different from the norm', you have to put more thought and effort into it.  Unfortunately, you have to find a better way to justify it to the community or they look at it as if you're doing it strictly for attention, even if it's just a unique challenge you want to approach in your writing.  If you want to make your character that way, do it, and enjoy the challenge.  If you feel like you're not up to it, then don't.  But don't do or not do it because of how someone 'says' it might be perceived.  That is one persons perception, and people have many different ones.

You're completely missing my point entirely.

It has nothing to do with being 'politically correct', a poor excuse to begin with. Sensitivity towards people who actually deal with awkward and uncomfortable gender identity issues on a day-to-day basis is important. Like, really important. They get enough shit in real-life; no reason to carry it over into their chosen escape.

I don't have a problem with ERP, either, but as a transwoman, I do not and will never appreciate anyone turning my situation into a vehicle for their fetishes while employing the usage of disrespectful terminology (tranny, shemale, etc.), virtual or not. It's disrespectful and above all, incredibly demeaning.

Now I know for a fact Chiyo would have no intention of doing any of this, but for the sake of discussion, I feel it incredibly important to bring the subject up before feelings are incidentally hurt.

Is that really so bad?

(09-08-2015, 12:38 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: Dated, yes.
Distasteful, no (it's a medical term, albeit a dated one, as you mentioned).

Is intersex the more generally used term in clinical discussion in 2015? Yes.
Is intersex the more generally used term in pop culture and media in 2015? Not yet.

Is nitpicking which medical term is used in a forum thread productive? Not really.

Yeah, no, please read the above. It's not nitpicking in the slightest.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Lydia Lightfoot - 09-08-2015

(09-08-2015, 12:43 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(09-08-2015, 12:38 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: Dated, yes.
Distasteful, no (it's a medical term, albeit a dated one, as you mentioned).

Is intersex the more generally used term in clinical discussion in 2015? Yes.
Is intersex the more generally used term in pop culture and media in 2015? Not yet.

Is nitpicking which medical term is used in a forum thread productive? Not really.

Yeah, no, please read the above. It's not nitpicking in the slightest.

Hun, I'm not uneducated, and I'm involved in plenty of LGBT rights situations myself. You're totally missing the point that these are both medical terms - neither is slang, a slur, an insult, etc.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - DeathGodSkeith - 09-08-2015

As long as you have lifelike reactions to your rp you should do whatever. If your character is intersexed im sure there would be some confidence issues, body issues, anxiety, etc. The point is to enjoy and make it feel like another life. I say go for it if you still want to. Ill roleplay with ya Smile

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Dis - 09-08-2015

(09-08-2015, 12:43 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(09-08-2015, 12:02 AM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: -snip-

You're completely missing my point entirely.

It has nothing to do with being 'politically correct', a poor excuse to begin with. Sensitivity towards people who actually deal with awkward and uncomfortable gender identity issues on a day-to-day basis is important. Like, really important. They get enough shit in real-life; no reason to carry it over into their chosen escape.

I don't have a problem with ERP, either, but as a transwoman, I do not and will never appreciate anyone turning my situation into a vehicle for their fetishes while employing the usage of disrespectful terminology (tranny, shemale, etc.), virtual or not. It's disrespectful and above all, incredibly demeaning.

Now I know for a fact Chiyo would have no intention of doing any of this, but for the sake of discussion, I feel it incredibly important to bring the subject up before feelings are incidentally hurt.

Is that really so bad?

I leave it up to others to deal with the term, and the political correctness surrounding it.  When I'm speaking to someone who identifies that way, I ask what their chosen pronoun is, and refer to them that way.  I don't go into detail about their sex(es) and the way in which they're interpreted in that fashion, if at all. 

I don't normally bring up my gender, situation, or preferences, but since we're going there, I'm going to say that as a pansexual genderqueer individual, I get my fair share of hate. 

I feel as if I should direct you to the Wikipedia, and the disambiguation for Hermaphrodite as an entry.  A lot of people use the phrase as a scientific descriptor, because, as said before, intersex is still a relatively new term.  I won't debate the specifics about it with you, but given that one of my best friends told me about the term a year ago, and I had never heard of it before that point in time, and I like to consider myself pretty decently learned, it's still pretty new in frequent use.

These terms are still gaining traction, so of course they're not commonly used.  And the terms are interchangeable.  Considering that they're referring to a character who would have both male and female reproductive organs, that isn't an inaccurate term to use.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Virella - 09-08-2015

(09-08-2015, 12:54 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(09-08-2015, 12:43 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(09-08-2015, 12:38 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: Dated, yes.
Distasteful, no (it's a medical term, albeit a dated one, as you mentioned).

Is intersex the more generally used term in clinical discussion in 2015? Yes.
Is intersex the more generally used term in pop culture and media in 2015? Not yet.

Is nitpicking which medical term is used in a forum thread productive? Not really.

Yeah, no, please read the above. It's not nitpicking in the slightest.

Hun, I'm not uneducated, and I'm involved in plenty of LGBT rights situations myself. You're totally missing the point that these are both medical terms - neither is slang, a slur, an insult, etc.
Amen.

Getting insulted over nothing is not going to help; especially due to the context that word was used into, it is really, really a neutral way of describing it, given Chiyo was using the medicial term for it in a neutral, open discussion about it.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Unnamed Mercenary - 09-08-2015

[[steps in as a mod]]

Let's keep the thread on topic please.

This is about RPing as someone who is intersex, not about the social discussion involved with it.

I'd like to recap Section 3 of the expanded rules (if you haven't taken the time to at least skim them, I would highly recommend it)

Section 3 - Discussion & Prejudiced Comments
  • Discussion of a sexual nature which isn't tasteful.
  • Attacks on, or promotion of, specific religions.
  • Posting racist comments.
  • Posting comments that attack another's sexual/gender identity (including but not limited to sexist and homophobic comments).

With that said, the rules do go both ways. Please do not use gender or sex identity as a means to prove a point or to further an off-topic discussion. The RPC is not really the place to have social, political and/or religious debates. While there is no rule outright banning them (like on many other forums), the staff here would like to encourage users to be respectful and not resort to jabs or passive-aggressiveness in posts.

[[steps out]]

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Edgar - 09-08-2015

[Ahem, Franz beat me to the punch.]

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Edgar - 09-08-2015

Sorry to double post, but I need to bump this thread. 

I'd like to say, intersex can be quite subtle, instead of cases like futanari. For instance, the character could be female with vaguely male qualities to her overall body shape, examples of her brain not knowing what to make of the two genders being in one body during adolescent development. One of the intersex characters I've seen on the RPC wiki went this route; her upper body was decidedly female, but the shape of everything below was less so. A distinct lack of womanly curves, for instance.

Overall, how you choose to go about this is up to you. Just try to avoid it being the only defining trait to your character.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Hyakki - 09-08-2015

Using the contents of your character's pants as the foundation of their entire existence is terrible and there should be so much more to them than that. Gender shouldn't matter at all in the grand scope of things.

Also, this is just a pet peeve but I loathe the term "mate", you're not an animal.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Lydia Lightfoot - 09-08-2015

(09-08-2015, 02:00 AM)Mamushi Wrote: Also, this is just a pet peeve but I loathe the term "mate", you're not an animal.

I know, right? We're obviously rocks. Or maybe some sort of lichen. Big Grin

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Lost River - 09-08-2015

As others have said and as I will agree; play what you want to, honestly. Male, Female, Intersexed; what have you. But, remember with how things are, do not make it your sole defining trait, have it color your role-play. Make it exhilarating, make it terrifying, make it unique and something you can portray as organically as you can. You don't have to be a snowflake nor do you have to be one of everyone else. If you can find an appropriate approach to it and branch outward, have fun playing it.

Role-playing is a mixture of fun and challenges in its own right, find that niche and expand your experience. Its how actors become better with their craft, so why not with your own? 

Most importantly though, have fun with it. If the character is not working for you, there is nothing against re-working the character; if it is, well, there is that 20 dollar change (Name/Fantasia) for you to work with a blank slate on a role-playing stand-point.


But most importantly, have fun.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Kage - 09-08-2015

To be quite honest, most of my experience with term Intersex came after I was introduced to a manga that is referred to as Ai-Esu for IS. [IS: Otoko Demo Onna Demo Nai Sei ]

I do think that there is some care that needs to be taken when you broach subjects such as this. I think others have talked enough about making sure it is not the sole trait or defining part of your character though it could be something major so I will try to think about the aspect of RPing it in FFXIV.

For Eorzea versus the real world there are some issues that i think shold be considered. How does Eorzea view gender? Do they even have name and sex registries? Is there a requirement to decide gender based on sexual organs at birth? For a world like Eorzea, would people care about it?

A lot of issues now is that I think that a lot of people don't discuss, learn or educate on the matter. Sex vs gender. So it gets into an issue with people when you are growing up possibly. Your ID says this but you identify, want to be understood as, and want to be seen as ____. One of the main characters in the manga I referred to had the issue where he was born with both testicles and ovaries. His parents wanted to see how he grew up and didnt assign him a gender but in order to save his life as an infant his testicles were removed. He lives and grows up as a male but is forced into a female role by his school when he hits puberty and his beasts form up and he starts to menstruate. However he still identifies aND wants to be seen as male though he struggles with things because he is still growing up to learn who he is.

But would an Eorzean really run into these matters? Is your character still coming to terms with learning who they are? Why would it make an impact in RP or why would it become a "staple"? Are birth certificates a thing in Eorzea? Is gender or sex something that is recorded at birth that follows one around to identify a person? How far can the magic of the world go? Would it allow for easy sexual change to fit gender? Is it harder? Is there a difference?

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - LadyRochester - 09-08-2015

I don't know if someone said this before, but here goes:

While an intersex character could be interesting to roleplay due to their constant emotional battles, you must be made aware of the fact that due to the fetishization of hermaphrodites, people might approach your character for the wrong reasons. 

Additionally, making a character that constantly deals with such inner emotional battles can be difficult to rp, as either:

a) When you RP, your character is too emotionally vulnerable to really talk to anyone
b) If your character DOES talk about their emotions, especially about such a big insecurity as this, people might be rubbed the wrong way and may interpret it as attention-seeking.

I did the former, where my character was going through an emotional turmoil (Still is) and due to this, she became withdrawn and distant, something that for others might become challenging to interact with when they seek a deeper connection with your character.

You also have to be careful with not making your character one-dimensional, as in, don't make the fact they have different genitals ALL there is to them, when you constantly bring it up IC or OOC, people start thinking that there's not much to your character except the fact they have boobs and a penis.

That said, my point is: Yes, I would definitely say an intersex character would be accepted by the community (I wouldn't mind rping with one either) But you have to have an extremely careful approach.

RE: Thoughts about intersex (NSFW-ish discussion) - Ignacius - 09-08-2015

I don't know if it's worth making a topic about... hear me out.

Gender and gender identity issues can be RP issues, but the problem is how they're made to be issues.  The fact is that, played right, 99% of characters won't even KNOW.  We're around transex people all the time; you can't pick them out of a crowd.  So, at most, it's going to be known by a short handful of people, and most of those won't honestly care any more than any of us do in real life.  Even if I know that my cousin, for example, has any other gender or sexual identity issues, it's not like it affects me or my relationship with them in any way.  About the only person who finding out about their gender might be something of what I'd call a dramatic story element might be my wife.

So, played right, it's rarely an external story element unless your character is consistently invited to weekly orgies, goes to prison, or has a severe cottonseed allergy and can't wear clothes.

The reason this thread might be important is because there's a way it could become a major external story element, and man is that the wrong way to play that angle.  Being actually transgender is a daily struggle of dealing with ignorance and a world that doesn't acknowledge any grey area between heterosexual males and females, but in FFXIV?  We don't have bathrooms in-game to even be gender-specific.  We don't have to worry about actual undergarment support.  Altering one's appearance isn't any more than a fantasia potion away.

So to make it an issue worth the mileage of actually putting in the development time on that single trait, you have to make your gender a major external issue.  That generally entails some VERY gratuitous and aggravating RP on your part to make people care about your genitalia in a game that, mechanically and figuratively, does not care an awful lot about your genitalia.

So.... I guess the summation of my advice here is to do it if you want, but the best way to play it is to NOT make it a focal point of your RP.  The only ways to make it a major issue to more than a few people are going to be the kind of RP some of us avoid like ebola.