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+--- Thread: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative (/showthread.php?tid=3860)
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Jomoru - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 07:18 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(08-22-2013, 07:12 PM)Jomoru Wrote:(08-22-2013, 07:02 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I think random dungeon finders can have a negative impact on a server community, as I saw in WoW from Wrath of the Lich King to present day.
However, there are a lot of other factors that play into that. Â It's not like, one thing. Â There are many other factors in FFXIV that will offset any negativity you see in the dungeon finder.
I'm going to be playing a main spec healer, but I'm sure I'll get around to tanking and DPSing at some point. Â I'd love to be a part of this if there's ever room. Â
I didn't find Wow's community have changed much before or after Dungeon finder. Â When I was with a group I knew, they were awesome. When it wasn't even if it was same server it was a coin flip. I got plenty of abuse with people from my same server tanks who couldn't tank shit, healers who couldn't heal shit, DPS who attack whatever they want and ignore Cc, etc
The only thing DF cut out was "wait around 3 hours looking for group because I'm a mage" That's why I think DF is seen as so bad. You get to see more of Wow's community in a quicker period of time.. and alot of it is shit people.
On the otherhand dungeons are always more fun with friends rather than silently compitent types who never speak up.
I have had a different experience. Â The community from BC and the community now in MoP are very different, and Dungeon Finder is part of that. Â However, like I said, it's just a single piece in a rather large puzzle. Â In the case of FFXIV, I don't think it will be an issue.
Incidentally, the issue with DF and "shit community" is that when you are forced to queue with people from your server, you have a social investment in behaving and doing your best (or else you'll be blacklisted). Â Dungeon Finder removes that.
That was not my experience in BC. I had alot of Horror stories that made me quit for a time. For a month I had an awesome group running then drama. BC had just as much potential for horrible runs its just you did so much fewer of them they didn't add up.
And I got plenty of drama, bullshit posturing, "Who cares about my rep I'm a tank" in BC. PUGS have always been what they are DF just makes it so you take less time getting one.
Now if you actually have personal connections to people, then its not a Pug.
(08-22-2013, 07:24 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(08-22-2013, 07:21 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: There's a common misconception that just because you're on the same server as someone they aren't going to royally suck, or they won't ninja your gear. This couldn't be further from the truth, after all you never know when someone on the Duty Finder is from your server (unless you ask), and during Phase 2 and early Phase 3 I got ninja'd a LOT on gear, having healers roll on +Int gear or an Archer that was rolling on every piece of caster gear he could get because it was All Class instead of DoM. The Archer was even on Balmung so.... yeah. Like I said, people fearing that Duty Finder will be the end of server cohesion are just being paranoid.
Actually, that isn't what I was talking about. Â You may get a bad player, or a ninja.
And then you can tell your friends, and their friends, about said bad player. Â And if they're bad enough, or pull the same behavior enough, they will find themselves without people to do dungeons with.
If they are a tank or a healer, guess what? That doesn't really work. There will always be DPS who need Tanks healers, even ones who are horrible.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Myxie Tryxle - 08-22-2013
I think it's a good idea. I leveled up my CNJ during phase 4 to 20 using exclusively groups from my linkshells (Intermission, Corvus) so that the RPC folks playing DPS didn't have to wait in line for half an hour or more just to finish each step of the story quests. I think I ran the chain of three dungeons three separate times on Saturday to help folks out while gaining a few levels myself.
It also helps build the community. Even if a player isn't the best DPS, tank, or healer you've played with, in this kind of environment, there's incentive to work with them. Offer helpful advice and such, because unlike a random pickup group, you will likely be seeing that player again, so you'll invest some effort. If you help those other players out, there's a high chance you'll play with them again and have a good time. I think it helps foster community while improving the gameplay of that community, in this case, the RPC community.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Ashren Dotharl - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 07:24 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:How is blacklisting someone on your server any different really than the very slim chances of you ever seeing that person again in the DF? I mean beyond the obvious that one is a voluntary action.(08-22-2013, 07:21 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: There's a common misconception that just because you're on the same server as someone they aren't going to royally suck, or they won't ninja your gear. This couldn't be further from the truth, after all you never know when someone on the Duty Finder is from your server (unless you ask), and during Phase 2 and early Phase 3 I got ninja'd a LOT on gear, having healers roll on +Int gear or an Archer that was rolling on every piece of caster gear he could get because it was All Class instead of DoM. The Archer was even on Balmung so.... yeah. Like I said, people fearing that Duty Finder will be the end of server cohesion are just being paranoid.
Actually, that isn't what I was talking about. Â You may get a bad player, or a ninja.
And then you can tell your friends, and their friends, about said bad player. Â And if they're bad enough, or pull the same behavior enough, they will find themselves without people to do dungeons with.
If I play with someone on my server and they're an asshat, I blacklist them and I tell my friends about them, they get black marks but ultimately in a large server like Balmung that's not going to matter a whole lot, they'd have to be a COLOSSAL douchebag for the entire server to hear about them and I've never met a person that was so bad they were server wide blacklisted.
Same situation, only I'm using the DF. Some guy is being an asshat, the dungeon is over and I go on about my business, and chances are 10,000 to 1 I'll never see that guy again anyways so who cares?
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - CallmeYahweh - 08-22-2013
I am most definitely interested in this idea.
Sign me up!
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Noble_Einherjar - 08-22-2013
I personally don't mind the Duty Finder. I loved uh .. whatever it was called in WoW (can't believe I've already forgotten), and I found the lack of such a feature in SWTOR to be one of its greatest weaknesses.
That being said, I totally support and admire this initiative. I'm not ready to join a LS/FC or anything yet, but this is definitely going on my list of places to look into when I am.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Qhora Bajihri - 08-22-2013
I have no contempt whatsoever for duty finder, and I never have in any game. I have a tendency to play the tank or healer and acknowledge that I'm going to be carrying my group. In fact, the only group I had in P4 that wasn't duty found was a group of 3 Japanese all damage dealers and me a CNJ in TamTara. It was brutally painful, I pretty much tanked and healed the entire thing (not because they were bad, but none of them have threat generation, what did they expect) but we finished the instance.
Before WoW had instance matching, I did a looot of random groups as a healer, the most infamous being a 13 hour "run" through the Sunken Temple. There were lots of breaks, but what a waste of a day. Give me a dungeon run where everybody rage quits after 10 minutes any day.
But to me, dungeon finders are an extension of solo play. I usually stay very quiet in them and prepare for the worst. You'd be surprised what you can do on your own sometimes, when the rest of the group is dead.
Real group play is found with friends and with intention to make new friends.
So really, I'd totally be up for something like this, and some of my FC probably would as well.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Rhylund - 08-22-2013
I'm taking down names and looking forward to running with you all when we go live!Â
Admittedly, I may have been a bit dramatic saying I felt 'contempt' for the duty finder. Really, I just miss the days when I had a list of acquaintances that I've had pleasant dungeon experiences with. I'd use this list to put my groups together, some acquaintances become friends, some don't, some befriend one another or introduce me to new people that I can add to my list and so on.
Watching a that 'web' grow was a magical thing for me and it's something that I miss dearly. I understand there are people that just want to get their dungeon done and go. That's fine. As I mentioned in the original post: convenience vs. community (speaking strictly in terms of dungeon running, of course. I'm not implying that you're out to destroy the community if you don't want to wait longer for a dungeon run.)
Great discussion on both sides, everyone. Keep it up.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Aleister - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 08:43 PM)Rhylund Wrote: I'm taking down names and looking forward to running with you all when we go live!ÂI think this is personally great and you can sign me up for this linkshell. I'll be a Marauder. ^_^
Admittedly, I may have been a bit dramatic saying I felt 'contempt' for the duty finder. Really, I just miss the days when I had a list of acquaintances that I've had pleasant dungeon experiences with. I'd use this list to put my groups together, some acquaintances become friends, some don't, some befriend one another or introduce me to new people that I can add to my list and so on.
Watching a that 'web' grow was a magical thing for me and it's something that I miss dearly. I understand there are people that just want to get their dungeon done and go. That's fine. As I mentioned in the original post: convenience vs. community (speaking strictly in terms of dungeon running, of course. I'm not implying that you're out to destroy the community if you don't want to wait longer for a dungeon run.)
Great discussion on both sides, everyone. Keep it up.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Ashren Dotharl - 08-22-2013
I will one thing that makes me all for this idea. As much as I love the DF for its convenience, having a group of people that you can just ask "Hey, you guys wanna run X Dungeon?" is always much more convenient than even the duty finder so long as people are always up for running something.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Rhylund - 08-22-2013
(08-22-2013, 08:59 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I will one thing that makes me all for this idea. As much as I love the DF for its convenience, having a group of people that you can just ask "Hey, you guys wanna run X Dungeon?" is always much more convenient than even the duty finder so long as people are always up for running something.
Yep! And even if you can't get a full group together, it's always nice to let those filling a damage role hop aboard the instaqueuemobile if you're a healer or tank.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Zyrusticae - 08-22-2013
I'm interested.
Where do I sign up?
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Random Encounter - 08-22-2013
While I have no issue using the DF for groups, I wouldn't mind the option of in server groups. A good friend of mine who likes to play healers is petrified about the idea of using DF due to bad experiences in other MMOs, a group like this would be perfect for her.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Chakha Malqir - 08-22-2013
I'm always willing to run stuff if anyone would like.
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Firae - 08-22-2013
id like to partake in this if i can get into Balmung in early access
RE: Balmung's Finest: Community Dungeon Crawling Initiative - Falkner - 08-22-2013
Wow, this is great! A community dungeon busters, simple and short! How do I sign up?
Oh I have a share of funny experience with PUGs in beta too! Man... that cutesy Lalafell tank really has very low threat whatsoever, I ended up healing myself and the friendly thaumaturge all the time!
