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+--- Thread: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. (/showthread.php?tid=8392)
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Warren Castille - 09-24-2014
Question regarding white mages and succor:
Succor has to be permitted to you, correct? Is it a situation where the elementals lend that power to you, or is it that they just don't mind if you reach for it with their permission?
I ask because, if they are allowing people to dip into that resource, it would almost make more sense for them to withdraw that allowance once the host has died. If Succor is the library book, the elementals are the librarians retrieving them. If this was the case, it'd be entirely possible your white mage steps out of her bubble with no magic to draw on.
Conversely, if it's merely permission-based, it'd make for an interesting scene when she first practices again. Elementals are primal forces so I doubt they'd notice it'd been 1600 years between castings, but I suspect there'd be SOME reaction to her starting over. Could be fun if all of her spells are accompanied by sudden gusts of wind or random, seemingly-from-nowhere rains.
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Berrod Armstrong - 09-24-2014
Gather your friends and other roleplayers enthusiastic about the concept, and you all can make something about it together. It seems to be workable, and the only reason or justification you need to actually do it?
"Because it'll be fun."
Go for it, and write some stuff about it on the bulletin board so I can creep enjoy some good reading!
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Sounsyy - 09-24-2014
(09-24-2014, 07:32 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Succor has to be permitted to you, correct? Is it a situation where the elementals lend that power to you, or is it that they just don't mind if you reach for it with their permission?
I...it's difficult to answer this question because lore is very hazy on the subject.
In 1.0, Succor is demonstrated to us by Raya-O-Senna (when she uses it to take down an Elemental!), but the Player Character couldn't use Succor until an Elemental named Oha-Sok bestowed the gift upon the PC. In the final WHM quest, "The Chorus of Cataclysm" Oha-Sok actually becomes our White Mage AF robes so that the PC might carry her power wherever the PC went.
This raised quite a few questions at the time. Is our power temporary? Can we only wield succor so long as we are blessed by the Elementals? How many other Elementals are going to sacrifice themselves so people outside of the PC can become White Mages?
In 2.0, things take an even stranger twist. The ghost of an eccentric Elezen Padjal (we didn't even know Elezen Padjal were possible in lore until this guy shows up!) bestows upon the PC his soulstone so that the two younger Senna siblings can use us as a third wheel White Mage, despite the fact that they could have asked E-Sumi-Yan, O-App-Pesi, or their own sister Kan-E-Senna to do the job.
So essentially, because a nutjob Padjal ghost gave you his soulstone, it's a green light for you to be trained in White Magic by the other two Padjal. The Elementals seem to have little to no say in the matter, as the Padjal are literally training you in Succor for the sole purpose of taking out an Elemental.
So...
Succor has to be presented to you? Yes, the gift must be bestowed upon you in some form or fashion before being able to become a White Mage. Whether this is because an Elemental judges you and finds your soul to be pure and incorruptible (1.0) or because a Padjal thought it was a good idea (2.0).
In the case of Aldotsk's new character, her Amdaporian would have received the gift directly from the Elementals (perhaps even born with Succor?). Even though the Elementals summoned the flood to wipe magic off the planet, I don't think her character would have been affected by said flood while locked away within her seal. Similar to how Diabolos seems unperturbed by said events after his seal eventually fades.
I also don't believe that the Elementals would pull her power while inactive just because they believed her dead. Similar to how my 1.0 PC didn't lose her succor just because she went into Louisoux's time warp. Sure I had do the WHM quests over to get Holy back, but I think that's more the "new game" mechanics than lore.
On a tangent... (forgive me) but in both the 1.0 and 2.0 WHM quest lines we are threatened repeatedly that the Elementals can withdraw their gift of succor. Which has led rise to the belief that they can flick it on and off like a switch. However, my observations of the lore don't seem to corroborate this. Quite often in 1.0 (not in 2.0 because SE made Elementals a background flavor instead of a way of life ugh) we see Conjurers and Padjal square off against Elementals using conjury and succor. "Beckon of the Elementals," "Seeds of Initiative," and "The Chorus of Cataclysm" all display Succor being used against the Elementals to great effect.
If, like most people say They can, why don't the enraged Elementals in "The Chorus of Cataclysm" just turn off the PC's access to Succor before finishing her off and unleashing the Greenwrath upon the whole Shroud? We never see them even attempt such things. The only thing angered Elementals attempt to do, is kill the one who angered them. (Or temper him and turn him into a Wildling... but SE doesn't like Elementals so they conveniently left that out of 2.0... ugh)
So I'm starting to think that that threat of having our power "revoked" actually means "if you abuse this gift, we're going to kill you."
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - CrookedTarot - 09-24-2014
(09-24-2014, 11:27 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: So I'm starting to think that that threat of having our power "revoked" actually means "if you abuse this gift, we're going to kill you."
Or perhaps the Elementals aren't as all pervading and powerful as we are led to believe? Or perhaps they are altogether bunk and there is something else at work using 'Elementals' as a cover?
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Sounsyy - 09-24-2014
(09-24-2014, 11:45 AM)CrookedTarot Wrote: Or perhaps the Elementals aren't as all pervading and powerful as we are led to believe? Or perhaps they are altogether bunk and there is something else at work using 'Elementals' as a cover?
Noooooo, the Elementals are very real and very scary.
Shadow of the Raven
(Skip to 2:20 if the video doesn't automatically.)
"Beckon of the Elementals" and "The Call of Nature" are also terrifying examples of the Elementals in their prime. "Beckon of the Elementals" even has a nice cutscene of O-App-Pesi getting owned by an Elemental.
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - CrookedTarot - 09-24-2014
(09-24-2014, 12:03 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:(09-24-2014, 11:45 AM)CrookedTarot Wrote: Or perhaps the Elementals aren't as all pervading and powerful as we are led to believe? Or perhaps they are altogether bunk and there is something else at work using 'Elementals' as a cover?
Noooooo, the Elementals are very real and very scary.
Shadow of the Raven
(Skip to 2:20 if the video doesn't automatically.)
"Beckon of the Elementals" and "The Call of Nature" are also terrifying examples of the Elementals in their prime. "Beckon of the Elementals" even has a nice cutscene of O-App-Pesi getting owned by an Elemental.
If I don't believe in them then they can't possibly exist or effect me! That's how it works right? RIGHT!?
No but seriously, it would almost be a satisfying little twist if it turned out that it wasn't the Elementals but some mad cult with a weather machine.
Also since this is from 1.0 I can completely ignore any and all implications and actions since it's from THAT DEAD GAME HUR HUR! /sarcasm
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - FreelanceWizard - 09-24-2014
Without wanting to open up a big can of worms here, the 2.0 MSQ talks a bit about how the Elementals have been diminished in the Seventh Umbral Era; I'm thinking particularly the remembrance ceremony in Gridania and Alphinaud's commentary afterwards. There's also the presence of Castrum in the Shroud, as well as Garleans just sort of wandering about (not just in the Sylphlands, but in the MSQ generally).
What I don't think there's any debate on is that the White Mage and Gridania lore in 2.x is all over the place in themes and even statements of facts, which is part of why there's such strong and divergent opinions on the matter, IMO.
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Aldotsk - 09-24-2014
For race wise, would I need to come up with a good reason of how this white mage looks similar to Hyur than Elezen/Keeper? I am rather curious because if not, I'd like to see if Fantasia would be the last option (Which I hate doing xD because everyone change their appearance ICly by Fantasia or some experiment gone wrong haha;; )
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - CrookedTarot - 09-24-2014
(09-24-2014, 12:15 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Without wanting to open up a big can of worms here, the 2.0 MSQ talks a bit about how the Elementals have been diminished in the Seventh Umbral Era; I'm thinking particularly the remembrance ceremony in Gridania and Alphinaud's commentary afterwards. There's also the presence of Castrum in the Shroud, as well as Garleans just sort of wandering about (not just in the Sylphlands, but in the MSQ generally).
What I don't think there's any debate on is that the White Mage and Gridania lore in 2.x is all over the place in themes and even statements of facts, which is part of why there's such strong and divergent opinions on the matter, IMO.
Thanks for this reminder! I had forgotten about that little mention mostly because it was sort of a one-off line that wasn't brought up again, even in the WHM quest line. I suppose Gridanians would be the last people in Eorzea to admit that the Elementals aren't as powerful as they once were and frankly, I kinda support the idea. The game has enough primal forces to worry about without needing to kiss ass (lore-wise) to yet ANOTHER pack of primal forces that we can't see or that have any major quest-line effect (which I don't think they ever do in the main story of 2.x)
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Sounsyy - 09-24-2014
(09-24-2014, 12:11 PM)CrookedTarot Wrote: No but seriously, it would almost be a satisfying little twist if it turned out that it wasn't the Elementals but some mad cult with a weather machine.
LOL it was those dang thespians from the new Mog quests all along! Curses!
(09-24-2014, 12:15 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: What I don't think there's any debate on is that the White Mage and Gridania lore in 2.x is all over the place in themes and even statements of facts, which is part of why there's such strong and divergent opinions on the matter, IMO.
This.
(09-24-2014, 12:26 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: For race wise, would I need to come up with a good reason of how this white mage looks similar to Hyur than Elezen/Keeper?
Considering Hyur don't show up in Eorzea for another thousand years post-Amdapor's demise, I think you would have to have a whopper of an excuse as to why there's a Hyur sealed inside a 1600 year old Amdaporian tomb.
Considering the bloody race-wars which went on for about 500 years between Elezen and Hyur when Hyur eventually did migrate to Eorzea in the 6th Astral Era, I don't think its possible to say either that your Amdaporian Hyur was part of some lesser known sect of Hyur who migrated 1000 years early.
Your Amdaporian probably wouldn't even know what a Hyur was, much less seen one. Which could be something interesting to roleplay. Maybe as she's walking around she sees this strange race that has no baring in her own memories. Maybe she finds them beautiful. Maybe she wishes she was like them. Idk.
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Aldotsk - 09-24-2014
(09-24-2014, 12:32 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Considering Hyur don't show up in Eorzea for another thousand years post-Amdapor's demise, I think you would have to have a whopper of an excuse as to why there's a Hyur sealed inside a 1600 year old Amdaporian tomb.
Considering the bloody race-wars which went on for about 500 years between Elezen and Hyur when Hyur eventually did migrate to Eorzea in the 6th Astral Era, I don't think its possible to say either that your Amdaporian Hyur was part of some lesser known sect of Hyur who migrated 1000 years early.
Your Amdaporian probably wouldn't even know what a Hyur was, much less seen one. Which could be something interesting to roleplay. Maybe as she's walking around she sees this strange race that has no baring in her own memories. Maybe she finds them beautiful. Maybe she wishes she was like them. Idk.
OH!Â
This is the greatest answer I was seeking
To this Amdaporian ancestor, she'd probably is new to the cultural changes anyways and would find Hyur to be the most amusing species roaming around Eorzea in this case. I'd definitely work something like that.
Overall, it does make sense that she'd first appear as Elezen/Keeper before anything.Â
**brainstorm is working now**
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - LiadansWhisper - 09-24-2014
Another idea is that she was an ambassador of some sort or foreign dignitary who had the right "mindset" to be open to White Magic. Â Maybe she was an adopted sibling or somehow integrated herself into a Elezen family. Â There's no suggestion that Hyur didn't exist, just that they weren't in Eorzea at all at that time. Â But, Hyur seem to be wanderers of a sort, with no real homeland, so if there was trade of some sort going on between Eorzea and the other continents, it's still possible (though rather unlikely) that a Hyur might somehow end up in Amdapor.
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Sounsyy - 09-25-2014
I'm not saying it isn't possible, because anything is possible. Just that, should you decide to take that route, be aware you are effectively re-writing Eorzean history for the sake of having one Hyuran Amdaporian.
Is it possible that Hyur visited Eorzea before the 6th Astral Era? Certainly. However, Eorzean archaeologists and historians date the first Hyur migration at roughly 1000 years ago, which resulted in bloody territorial wars between the newly arrived Hyur and the Ishgardians, the Gyr Abanian Elezen, and the Belah'dians.
It'd be like when historians IRL discovered the Spaniards weren't the first Europeans to "discover" the New World, but instead the Vikings already beat them by like 500 years.
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - OverlordOutpost - 09-25-2014
There's always an issue with a character background story when it involves either rewriting history, or paragraphs of explanation just to seem remotely possible. Â When you hit that point where you're questioning your own characters validity and needing to ask publicly what to do/fix it you need to ask yourself.
"Is this needed, and does it matter?"
Does having this large and elaborate story affect or add to your character in any noticeable way? Â Is it necessary to have this or else the character personality or concept just cannot work? Â Is there not a simpler way to achieve that same goal?
If you answered "No" to any of those questions, and you're still questioning your character's validity; then it may be time to drop and rewrite it, keeping it simple.
--
Yours is particularly troubling because it relies on a lot of unexplained or vague aspects coupled with amnesia. Â Meaning your character will either be forever locked in an amnesiac state (making your background worthless) or runs the risk of having Square Enix contradict and annihilate your entire background in a single patch note.
I'd honestly rewrite it to be more generic and vague, or drop the concept of being a White Mage at all. Â A amnesiac conjurer found in the Shroud not only fits directly into lore without any additional work; it also keeps a lot more avenues open for progress that don't carry the caveat of being obsoleted instantly or questioned constantly.
RE: White Mage Story Idea - Knowingly that I'll be bashed for this. - Aldotsk - 09-25-2014
(09-25-2014, 01:12 PM)OverlordOutpost Wrote: Yours is particularly troubling because it relies on a lot of unexplained or vague aspects coupled with amnesia. Â Meaning your character will either be forever locked in an amnesiac state (making your background worthless) or runs the risk of having Square Enix contradict and annihilate your entire background in a single patch note.
I'd honestly rewrite it to be more generic and vague, or drop the concept of being a White Mage at all. Â A amnesiac conjurer found in the Shroud not only fits directly into lore without any additional work; it also keeps a lot more avenues open for progress that don't carry the caveat of being obsoleted instantly or questioned constantly.
Some spells that were casted between Conjurer and White Mage, there are huge gaps of spells that conjurers cannot use because it leads to white magic. Honestly White Mage is indeed forbidden but despite that it is hero's plot OOCly for WHM chain quest, it is considerably implied that -one- can be a white mage in due time through future possibility. So I am not sure how much Square Enix will forbid anyone from becoming WHM. (Considering the fact that there are no roleplaying servers, and Balmung/Gilgamesh are literally the unofficial RP servers.)Â
If we talk about character background story, then we can also look at Paladins, Warriors, and Monks. Paladins can be free paladins to go out on an adventurer, but as Sultansworn paladins, they are limited by their duties in the city to protect Sultana, but there are still people who argue that people who play Sultansworns are rewriting history and lore backgrounds. By how much? Barely.
But if the character background supports it and it doesn't impact a lot to the lore to destroy Eorzea, I don't think it should look down upon >_<