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+--- Thread: Racial relationships (/showthread.php?tid=9863)
RE: Racial relationships - Dogberry - 01-30-2015
In regards to the heated tension between Elezen and Hyur, I think I've got a few ideas about how they can work that out. You can read all about it in my fanfiction entitled "Sharp Ears and Soft Kisses".
RE: Racial relationships - Kamome - 01-30-2015
With the above statements in mind, I always make the assumption that stigmas around interracial dating and marriage would vary between Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa and Gridania. I.e., you'd see maybe more stigma between Elezen and Keepers of the Moon or Hyur and Keepers of the Moon in Gridania, between perhaps Dunesfolk and Plainsfolk in Ul'dah, or Hyur and Dunesfolk--so on and so forth. In Limsa Lominsa, the Sea Wolves make up both the majority of the 'bad guy' Pirates but also seem almost as populous and integrated into the power system as hyur--especially in the surrounding farms (though many there are former pirates). I still think there would be a lot of tension if a Sea Wolf and Hyur were together.Â
That said, class and majority status also play a role. You'd probably have less interracial dating and marriage among the higher end of the spectrum: Dunesfolk/Midlander in Ul'dah, Midlander/Sea Wolves in Limsa, and Wildwood/Midlander in Gridania. I think we see a lot of flirting with and sexualization of miqo'te across Ul'dah and Limsa Lominsa because they are, from all appearances, something of a lower-class race. It really seems apparent with the 'prostitute' miqo'te NPCs in Limsa and the dancers in Ul'dah. It makes sense, too, because of the relatively recent/ongoing integration of miqo'te into urban culture.Â
All this said-and-done, we are, canonically, adventurers from outside of Eorzea. Does the player character even have a stake ICly in this old wounds and conflicts? What are the histories of interracial conflict in Othard and elsewhere? Sharlayan? Y'shtola seems very well-integrated and respected as a miqo'te from Sharlayan. From Koji-Fox's other comments, interracial marriage and breeding seems almost like it would be common within Garlean territory because they recruit and indoctrinate all races and essentially treat them as equals because the ultimate goal is to earn your Garlean citizenship.
/endramble
RE: Racial relationships - Kinono - 01-30-2015
I'm gonna be self-serving and just talk about examples of it in my own RP, because that's the hand I got and I wanna contribute!
Kinono has dated two miqo'tes before, but they were both of the... "no risk of baby-making" variety. Based on what I've seen in quests, at least, dating and relationships seem not to matter so much, and the current belief is that it's the offspring that the populace would have a problem with.
Now, Kino is married within her own race/clan, but during a random off-hand conversation where they were talking about their experiences with other races, and the fact that lalafell tend to not have a problem dating non-lalafell, while the opposite tends to not be as true (based on interactions with PC characters, nothing lore-abiding). Her husband, Babazan commented that it's "easier to ignore stigma when you're the relative outlier," which... seems to be a very universal truth, even outside our given setting.
RE: Racial relationships - Kamome - 01-30-2015
Personally, I primarily play three Midlander Hyur women with very differing views on interracial relations:
Kamome, a Doman immigrant from a very small village who has had next to zero contact with other races (excluding Garleans and, by extension, Highlanders) before arriving as a refugee to Limsa Lominsa. She rarely saw 'unmasked' Garleans, only one Garlean soldier who was racially a Highlander, so she has an ingrained fear of Highlanders, but understands their status as a fellow conquered people at the same time, making her view of them very conflicted, psychologically. She doesn't have /any/ context for Eorzean racial relationships and treats all non-Midlanders the same, basically--curiosity tempered with a cautious distance.
Rosalind, a native Ul'dahn from a higher-class family. Her parents were academics who worked at the Milvaneth Sacrarium before it was destroyed. Therefore, she has been utterly /steeped/ in Dunesfolk culture since she was a kid. She sees herself, despite Midlanders having a pretty high class position in Ul'dah, as a minority within academic/religious life. Dunesfolk seem to utterly dominate the Sacrarium and the Ossuary. So she views Dunesfolk with utmost respect--having absorbed their sense of racial superiority through proximity. Somewhere deep down, she probably feels she will never be as intelligent as most Dunesfolk. Also, as a very non-physical, more intellectual/knowledge-driven character, she is romantically attracted to lalafell for their intellects. She's an example of a character who reacts to interracial conflict and competition by idealizing and emulating the higher status race rather than hating it. I guess somewhat of an Uncle Tom, if she was a more ambitious character.
Yvane, another native Ul'dahn who's family comes from a military background. She's around a lot of Highlanders and Midlanders--they seem to make up a big portion of the lower ranks of the Brass Blades and Immortal Flames, with Dunesfolk apparently higher-up? So she's most comfortable around other Midlanders and assimilated Highlanders. Her character is strange because her family and social status have completely fallen through the floor, and she is basically living among the lowest of the low-class Ul'dahns. So, she's grown comfortable with Sagolii miqo's, refugee Highlanders, you name it. She is at the bottom so she can't afford to be racist. She's also an avid womanizer, and a very open-minded character to begin with, so she'll flirt with any woman she encounters, really. Regardless of race.
RE: Racial relationships - Bopdoot - 01-30-2015
(01-30-2015, 10:12 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Inter-racial relationships thrill me OOC, because it opens up a lot of avenues for roleplay.*flexxx* Yesss Highlanders are the pinnacle of aesthetics.Â
I'll use Warren's marriage to Sei as an example. Berrod was at the ceremony, and while he was very happy for them both, he still muttered and wondered why Warren couldn't find himself a nice highlander girl to make some babies and keep the blood thick. He's an Ala Mhigan-blooded Highlander to the core, and while he may not have any active hostilities against the other races, courting them is questionable. He makes an exception for Roegadyn, but only because they most closely match his model of what an individual should be -- traditionally.Â
Long story short, he doesn't think it's strange, he just sorts of laments that people do it and water down 'good' bloodlines.
Hee hee, in all seriousness this is the same attitude Amelia and her brother have about other people. Â I think IC "racism" can be a great avenue of conflict to keep things interesting.
As a personal opinion, I think interracial couples obviously happen, but I think you would still many folkyfolk that have a 1950s(American) mentality of "(S)he'd be better off with their own kind..."
Yknow??
RE: Racial relationships - Whittledown - 01-30-2015
It's all situational. Upbringing. Life experience, all of it.
Take someone like Obsidian Hornet. Her first experience with love was with a Highlander male, this colored her view of them and led to her having relationships more easily with them despite her being a Roegadyn. But she also understands that issues like breeding are important, that's why she broke off her engagement with Gharen Wolfsong. She wanted him to have the chance to meet a nice Highlander girl and make some babies.
RE: Racial relationships - Bryn - 01-30-2015
(01-30-2015, 10:12 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Inter-racial relationships thrill me OOC, because it opens up a lot of avenues for roleplay.
I'll use Warren's marriage to Sei as an example. Berrod was at the ceremony, and while he was very happy for them both, he still muttered and wondered why Warren couldn't find himself a nice highlander girl to make some babies and keep the blood thick. He's an Ala Mhigan-blooded Highlander to the core, and while he may not have any active hostilities against the other races, courting them is questionable. He makes an exception for Roegadyn, but only because they most closely match his model of what an individual should be -- traditionally.Â
Long story short, he doesn't think it's strange, he just sorts of laments that people do it and water down 'good' bloodlines.
Brynhilde is much the same. She comes from a very old and traditionalist Ala Mhigan Highlander family, and as such still possesses bit of what you could fairly describe as bigotry against other races. It seems sensible to me to believe that a culture (Ala Mhigo) both consisting of a majority race (The Highlanders, presumably) and steeped in a love of war and conquest would naturally foster a sense of racial supremacy in many of its citizens.
So Bryn has disdain for Highlanders who 'mix' with Midlanders, whom she derides as 'Half Hyur'. She considers Miqo'te primitive and licentious, and judges any non-Miqo'te who pair with them. She feels that Elezen are unduly arrogant and, owing to their willowy frames, unattractive. Lalafell are avaricious and weak, and are children to her eyes.
She has respect for (and no small amount of attraction to) Roegadyn, due to their physical strength. She does still fall prey to the stereotype of them being brutish and simple, though... Which, of course, is the typical view of the Ala Mhigans!
RE: Racial relationships - SessionZero - 01-30-2015
(01-30-2015, 12:39 PM)Bryn Wrote: She does still fall prey to the stereotype of them being brutish and simple, though... Which, of course, is the typical view of the Ala Mhigans!
Can confirm, Reilan thinks Highlanders are good meat shields and not much else
RE: Racial relationships - Warren Castille - 01-30-2015
Anyone who's met Sei knows she isn't your typical miqo'te, and I'd like to think the folks who've met Warren would think he's got good instincts for who to partner with.
At any rate, the folks who would say otherwise would do well to not utter it in front of either of them!
It's like any culture, really: The deeper you are ingrained to it, the higher the pressure to cleave to your own kind.
RE: Racial relationships - Jana - 01-30-2015
Most of Jana's racism is more casual than outright hatred, for example, on the topic of Sei and Warren, Jana kept her mouth shut but wonders just why they'd bother mixing anyway. There are plenty of nice Highlander girls and civilized Miqo'te men. And while she herself can find other races attractive, she has enough hang-ups over dating in general that she (usually) won't act on any impulses felt toward Keepers, much less anyone else.
OOCly, I think it's lots of fun and provides even more avenues of RP for the characters involved and even third-parties!
RE: Racial relationships - Dogberry - 01-30-2015
Dogberry's only outright "no" is for lalafell. It's not a question of chemistry or biology, but of physics. He's considered exceptions for the especially charming ones, but is so afraid that he would literally kill them in a moment of passion that he's not going to risk it.
Dogberry feels like he's been pressured all his life to settle down with a nice Roegadyn girl. While he does enjoy his Roegadyn siswyns, the prospect of settling down scares him. That expectation always hangs over him when he's with a Roegadyn girl, which is why he approached Dhemgeim more formally than most other relationships. If he's going to be with a Roe girl, he has to do it The Right Way.
His relationships with the other races have been more casual. He doesn't feel the pressure to court them in any particular way and gets to do things like be friends with benefits or short term flings. In a way, he's much more comfortable with them.
Right now, with Menelwen, he's kind of taking a a more formal approach to dating a non-Roegadyn. He doesn't want to marry anytime soon, but he can at least be monogamous!
RE: Racial relationships - Jana - 01-30-2015
Dogberry could always hot dog that popoto booty. HotDogberry dat.
RE: Racial relationships - Gegenji - 01-30-2015
(01-30-2015, 01:37 PM)Dogberry Wrote: Dogberry's only outright "no" is for lalafell.
Lalafell usually seem to be on the no-no list for a lot of folks, and for pretty understandable reasons. I mean, they're obviously small and child-like, so any sort of physical attraction almost certainly would come off as more than a little creepy to some. It's kinda in the same boat as those really young-looking girls in anime who "are totally 500 years old, guys, it's cool."
Maybe the way to approach it is to have it be more of a mental or spiritual attraction rather than a physical one? You mesh well with each other due to either having similar tastes or interests, or your differences complement each other, something like that. Of course, you'd still probably get people giving you looks for being squidgy - especially if you're really putting the "public" in public displays of affection. Still, I could still see romances with Lalafell working out, just in a less... physical sense? I dunno.
I mean, Chachan's actually somehow managed to end up with some folks showing some possible romantic interest in him despite of (or perhaps because of) his heroic, dorky behavior. However, all of them are other Lalafell - with one of them being a boy despite Chachan's hetero nature. That in itself is fine, I'm flattered enough that folks like the guy enough to want to get into possible romantic entanglements with him. It's more the conversation that came from it, where the idea was put forward that "Lalafell only being for other Lalafell"... despite the aforementioned examples to the contrary (Momodi's Hyur suitor, the lady Lala who dreams of Raubahn, the 1.0 Miqo'te).
Again, it's still an (understandable) culture thing from a Human standpoint. Just like some look negatively upon the harem natures of the Miqo'te tribes... just so much worse so since the Miqo'te at least still have quite obvious secondary sex characteristics to be physcially attracted to instead of looking like children. I just like to think and hope that even the Popotos have a chance for deep, meaningful relationships with anyone, just like any of the other races. It just takes a different... mindset and approach, I think, to avoid it potentially coming off as wrong or creepy?
I dunno. I'm rambling and I've edited this post, like, four or five times now trying to get my own thoughts clear on this. Lala love just seems like such a... touchy subject. Maybe I just dislike the idea of Lalafell being so potentially limited on their romantic options due so heavily to appearance?
RE: Racial relationships - Sounsyy - 01-30-2015
(01-30-2015, 01:55 PM)Gegenji Wrote: the lady Lala who dreams of Raubahn
Would like to point out that that's a male Lala dreaming of Raubahn. Which makes the "I am your sultana" even funnier. ;P
Lore has already been covered by people so I'mma just add that Sounsyy's never been in a relationship with a fellow Seeker Miqo'te before. Only a Highlander boy when she was younger and a Keeper lady to date. Her mother and father were a mixed couple so she really doesn't have much stigma against it.
RE: Racial relationships - Caspar - 01-30-2015
I'm fine with the idea of lalafell romance even with mixed race couples, but I would rather gloss over the distasteful stuff. On a certain level, I can't not see them as children. I think that in setting other races would have a similar problem, and it takes a certain type of individual to look past that and recognize them for being fully fledged, mature adults.
There was a problem in a strategy game I played, actually. The lore for the game Sword of the Stars mentioned that the Tarkasians, lizard people, had difficulty fighting humans in hand to hand or on the ground despite a huge physical edge. This is because they exhibited sexual dimorphism where the females were much larger and stronger, (Until a select few males undergo a *second* sexual maturation, one of their weirder biological quirks triggered by a special diet.) and infant/juvenile Tarkasians were less scaled and had smooth skin. To them, the humans looked like androgynous children, who'd never gone through puberty and reached that point where males and females started to look different. Even if logically, they could recognize their enemy as mature adults and competent soldiers, subconsciously it was ingrained into them by society and their own biology to find the act of killing them disturbing on a fundamental level. I think that other races will inevitably struggle with this instinctual aversion even in lore. Forget even romance; I think there are a lot of people who'd have difficulty even raising a hand to or committing violence against Lalafell.