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+--- Thread: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? (/showthread.php?tid=11578)
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Telluride - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 03:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: "People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them."
Inaccurate for some cases.
Try this version:
"Many people are annoyed that they may have to revisit old content, which they have already worked for, in order to access, and begin earnestly working towards, at least some of the new content, which they have paid for."
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - McBeefâ„¢ - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 03:35 PM)Telluride Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: "People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them."
Inaccurate for some cases.
Try this version:
"Many people are annoyed that they may have to revisit old content, which they have already worked for, in order to access, and begin earnestly working towards, at least some of the new content, which they have paid for."
I don't think people have to revisit old content, if you're already beaten the MSQ, there is nothing to revisit. If anything they're giving us a helping hand by starting the classes at 30 instead of 1.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - BroodingFicus - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 03:53 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:35 PM)Telluride Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: "People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them."
Inaccurate for some cases.
Try this version:
"Many people are annoyed that they may have to revisit old content, which they have already worked for, in order to access, and begin earnestly working towards, at least some of the new content, which they have paid for."
I don't think people have to revisit old content, if you're already beaten the MSQ, there is nothing to revisit. If anything they're giving us a helping hand by starting the classes at 30 instead of 1.
True if you plan to use an existing character at 50 who is already done up to 2.55. Not true for new players or anyone who may want to make an Au Ra without being forced to sacrifice the appearance of an old/long standing character.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Telluride - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 03:53 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:35 PM)Telluride Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: "People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them."
Inaccurate for some cases.
Try this version:
"Many people are annoyed that they may have to revisit old content, which they have already worked for, in order to access, and begin earnestly working towards, at least some of the new content, which they have paid for."
I don't think people have to revisit old content, if you're already beaten the MSQ, there is nothing to revisit. If anything they're giving us a helping hand by starting the classes at 30 instead of 1.
Is there a new zone or new dungeons for leveling 30-50 that I haven't seen yet?
I didn't see anything about new content for those levels. The MSQ is supposed to give more EXP, yes, but if I'm just picking up MCH at 30, where do I go to level to 50 that I haven't seen?
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Kage - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 04:06 PM)Telluride Wrote:You are correct that anyone leveling the new jobs 30-50 will be doing that leveling in ARR content.(06-09-2015, 03:53 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:35 PM)Telluride Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: "People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them."
Inaccurate for some cases.
Try this version:
"Many people are annoyed that they may have to revisit old content, which they have already worked for, in order to access, and begin earnestly working towards, at least some of the new content, which they have paid for."
I don't think people have to revisit old content, if you're already beaten the MSQ, there is nothing to revisit. If anything they're giving us a helping hand by starting the classes at 30 instead of 1.
Is there a new zone or new dungeons for leveling 30-50 that I haven't seen yet?
I didn't see anything about new content for those levels. The MSQ is supposed to give more EXP, yes, but if I'm just picking up MCH at 30, where do I go to level to 50 that I haven't seen?
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Naunet - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 03:06 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I think this is a much more reasonable argument. I do think they should have made them like Ninjas. The only issue is that all the class trainers (from what I understand) are in the new areas, and the MSQ needs to be finished to unlock them. Rather than deal with that they just made it 50.
Then why are you arguing? Because that is exactly what we've been asking for - the jobs to be accessible once you've reached level 30 on a class. It's ridiculously easy for SE to plop NPC trainers in Coerthas outside of Ishgard.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - McBeefâ„¢ - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 04:06 PM)Telluride Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:53 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:35 PM)Telluride Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: "People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them."
Inaccurate for some cases.
Try this version:
"Many people are annoyed that they may have to revisit old content, which they have already worked for, in order to access, and begin earnestly working towards, at least some of the new content, which they have paid for."
I don't think people have to revisit old content, if you're already beaten the MSQ, there is nothing to revisit. If anything they're giving us a helping hand by starting the classes at 30 instead of 1.
Is there a new zone or new dungeons for leveling 30-50 that I haven't seen yet?
I didn't see anything about new content for those levels. The MSQ is supposed to give more EXP, yes, but if I'm just picking up MCH at 30, where do I go to level to 50 that I haven't seen?
I mean, yes, but do you think every job after your first should start at 50 now? It's a different job, usually they start at one. I find it rather odd to complain about getting 30 levels free.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Mountie - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 04:12 PM)Naunet Wrote:I doubt that you are taking into account the lore-wise justification of going into Ishgard. I personally love how the FFXIV developers stick to their guns, and as far as I've made it, following the MSQ has allowed things to progress in an established timeline. Instead of playing other games where entire sections are subverted or never truly explored, the game takes you along and touches each area.(06-09-2015, 03:06 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I think this is a much more reasonable argument. I do think they should have made them like Ninjas. The only issue is that all the class trainers (from what I understand) are in the new areas, and the MSQ needs to be finished to unlock them. Rather than deal with that they just made it 50.
Then why are you arguing? Because that is exactly what we've been asking for - the jobs to be accessible once you've reached level 30 on a class. It's ridiculously easy for SE to plop NPC trainers in Coerthas outside of Ishgard.
So some classes are locked eh? Perhaps that is because Ishgard itself will remain virtually locked with our adventurers being special snowflakes who get to come in. Until we see how Square Enix will introduce this, I find this "Shortcut the MSQ" to be a bit disturbing. New forces are being discovered in the land up North. Not in the areas we have been, otherwise we would have already found them. To find something new, one must go to the place that is new. I would hope that an RPer over all others might at least acknowledge this.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Telluride - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 04:16 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:(06-09-2015, 04:06 PM)Telluride Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:53 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:35 PM)Telluride Wrote:(06-09-2015, 03:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: "People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them."
Inaccurate for some cases.
Try this version:
"Many people are annoyed that they may have to revisit old content, which they have already worked for, in order to access, and begin earnestly working towards, at least some of the new content, which they have paid for."
I don't think people have to revisit old content, if you're already beaten the MSQ, there is nothing to revisit. If anything they're giving us a helping hand by starting the classes at 30 instead of 1.
Is there a new zone or new dungeons for leveling 30-50 that I haven't seen yet?
I didn't see anything about new content for those levels. The MSQ is supposed to give more EXP, yes, but if I'm just picking up MCH at 30, where do I go to level to 50 that I haven't seen?
I mean, yes, but do you think every job after your first should start at 50 now? It's a different job, usually they start at one. I find it rather odd to complain about getting 30 levels free.
I was addressing your point about "nothing to revisit" by saying that yes, yes there IS old content to revisit, and it's the content that will get you from 30-50.
Nathan's going to pick up MCH at some point (after I check out the new bard stuff). I have to start it at 30. So, I gotta run TotoRak, Haukke, all those dungeons, do the existing Leves, and scrounge up FATEs. Just like I had to do to get MNK and DRG to 50. Like I will have to do if I ever want WAR above 32 on him.
That is precisely being forced to do old content to get MCH to where it can operate in Ishgard, unless SE has a new zone or such awaiting us for our level 30 pleasures, and yet it still denies giving the new classes to people without doing the MSQ, which is one of the points in this thread.
I appreciate that having the new classes begin at 50 will flood the level 50 instances with people who can't play their class specifically because it WAS born yesterday.
Why not have an option? It seems reasonable to me to have the new class trainers accessible in, say, Coerthas, when I can sneak up there and learn 'em somewhere between 30 and 40, and continue the MSQ as the new class but on my first character. That is really isn't much different than playing, say, a Bard to 30, then leveling up Monk to from 1-50 to see the rest of the game.
I'm not complaining about 30 free levels. I'm pointing out that new players AND old players still can't have the classes without at least a minimum of forced old content. SE is saying that we're not worthy of the new classes until we do the MSQ, and when we do it, we STILL have to go back and regrind. Please go back and read Chachanji's posts in this thread - he's already laid this out for us.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - BroodingFicus - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 04:21 PM)Riordyn Ashentyr Wrote:(06-09-2015, 04:12 PM)Naunet Wrote:I doubt that you are taking into account the lore-wise justification of going into Ishgard. I personally love how the FFXIV developers stick to their guns, and as far as I've made it, following the MSQ has allowed things to progress in an established timeline. Instead of playing other games where entire sections are subverted or never truly explored, the game takes you along and touches each area.(06-09-2015, 03:06 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I think this is a much more reasonable argument. I do think they should have made them like Ninjas. The only issue is that all the class trainers (from what I understand) are in the new areas, and the MSQ needs to be finished to unlock them. Rather than deal with that they just made it 50.
Then why are you arguing? Because that is exactly what we've been asking for - the jobs to be accessible once you've reached level 30 on a class. It's ridiculously easy for SE to plop NPC trainers in Coerthas outside of Ishgard.
So some classes are locked eh? Perhaps that is because Ishgard itself will remain virtually locked with our adventurers being special snowflakes who get to come in. Until we see how Square Enix will introduce this, I find this "Shortcut the MSQ" to be a bit disturbing. New forces are being discovered in the land up North. Not in the areas we have been, otherwise we would have already found them. To find something new, one must go to the place that is new. I would hope that an RPer over all others might at least acknowledge this.
No one is asking square to break their lore or subvert the MSQ. As has been said here already, moving the job quest givers outside the state of Ishgard does not have to be a huge violation of existing plot lines. At 30 a quest giver appears. Why? Any number of reasons. Thus far most of the job quest givers have been out on their own on some very specific mission where we happened to come across them. Not in a guild somewhere. Most of the jobs are technically off limits rp wise for exactly that reason. We became (insert most jobs) through very special circumstances that technically cannot be replicated by the general masses. The same could have been done here. When you really look at it, people are bothered by the fact that FFXIV is not sticking to its guns and has changed the way they did things in a way that negatively effects many individuals.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Cogito - 06-09-2015
Holy crap.
26 pages?!
What did I do.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Telluride - 06-09-2015
(06-09-2015, 04:31 PM)BroodingFicus Wrote: No one is asking square to break their lore or subvert the MSQ. As has been said here already, moving the job quest givers outside the state of Ishgard does not have to be a huge violation of existing plot lines. At 30 a quest giver appears. Why? Any number of reasons. Thus far most of the job quest givers have been out on their own on some very specific mission where we happened to come across them. Not in a guild somewhere. Most of the jobs are technically off limits rp wise for exactly that reason. We became (insert most jobs) through very special circumstances that technically cannot be replicated by the general masses. The same could have been done here. When you really look at it, people are bothered by the fact that FFXIV is not sticking to its guns and has changed the way they did things in a way that negatively effects many individuals.
Besides, putting all three classes in Ishgard is not required for the story. It is not even in accord with the Lore that we are being given now.
Why can't Cid teach us what being a Machinist is? Gosh, we only have the best damn Garlean tech on the planet as one of our own best buddies! And what about all those Limsan gunners?
Why can't we learn Dark Knight from one of those disgruntled warriors who, according to SE's very lore, leave their cities and families behind to come fight dragons and seek justice, and we might meet one on the other side of the Stone Vigil? It makes as much sense as every single other job story.
And you can't deny that a perfect place for an Astrologian is in the Observatory... in Coerthas.
The decision to stuff the new classes in Ishgard is absolutely NOT required by the game lore. Not one bit. It was a design decision, and while they will HAVE lore to back it up, whatever they have made up to support that decision is just as arbitrary as a lot of their other decisions. FF has great lore, but SE is willing to break their own lore very readily for design purposes.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Cato - 06-09-2015
No MMO is ever going to be custom tailored to everybody's individual tastes. Surely there's plenty of stuff that everybody in this thread loves about the game to justify any of the perceived inconveniences which, incidentally are perks in the eyes of others?
I would have thought more role-players would approve of the developers not retconning huge swathes of lore to justify having new content pop up everywhere. I stopped bothering with WoW due to how poorly the lore was handled. Those who really want convenience above all else would likely be happier there - or with any of the other numerous MMO's that don't put much focus on their ongoing stories.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Aaron - 06-09-2015
And truth be told a lot of this seems as if people when they get the class will go around constantly making it known they're a AST DRK MCH or something and constantly looking for fight rp just to do it.
In all honesty the class makes up less of a character than the personality imo. You could be a WHM and still be one of the most edgy people in existence. With every cut you inflict on your self sweet succor heals the party.
Or something like that.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Warren Castille - 06-09-2015
Just a couple of shotgun points to bring up, in no particular order:
-Since this thread was created I leveled 2 alts to 2.55 content. Nobody knows who they are because I made sure to do it on my own, without riding reputation or friends for help.
-I'm pretty sure every expansion in WoW made me replay the entire series of expansions if I started a new character. I made a monk? I have to replay Cata/BC/Wrath/Panda/Warlords to get current. Unless I shell out real cash, by the by.
-Until recently, if someone wanted to play DK and was new to the game, they had to start at 1, hit 55, then redo everything.
-People here seem to be intentionally ignoring the newspost where Yoshi said exp and gear rewards were being streamlined to alleviate the 2.1-2.55 bore. New players will likely be level 51 or 52 upon hitting 3.0's content.
-New players won't be bothered by having to redo content because they'll be doing it for the first time
-New players who want to play new classes should be used to the MMO design of "Nope, do the boring grind first."
-If they're not, they won't buy the expansion.
-Seriously, you could have had multiple brand new classes to 50 and waiting for fantasia (included with the expansion!) by now