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+--- Thread: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" (/showthread.php?tid=10020)
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Gegenji - 02-09-2015
It's also a matter that even actors find playing the villain more fun than the hero. Heroes tend to be cut from the same cloth, especially in film. The nice guy, the good guy - Superman is a good example. It's only in the past, what, twenty years or so that the antihero and the grittier heroic types came to the fore? I don't know the specifics.
Meanwhile, villains can come from all walks. You can have your crazies, your power hungries, your "the world is diseased" types, so on and so forth. My personal favorite type of villain is the one that... you can kinda agree with. You don't approve at all with what they're doing, but you can totally see their reasoning for doing it.
Second is probably the one written so well that you find yourself hating them without even knowing it.
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Sounsyy - 02-09-2015
(02-09-2015, 03:46 PM)Gegenji Wrote: My personal favorite type of villain is the one that... you can kinda agree with. You don't approve at all with what they're doing, but you can totally see their reasoning for doing it.
![[Image: cool-motive-still-murder.gif]](http://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/cool-motive-still-murder.gif)
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Caspar - 02-10-2015
I think this is a birdwalk, but my favorite villain is the one who is one solely by virtue of being on the 'losing side' of history. Though, I do like plain old crazies too, especially if they have a sympathetic or tragic reason for being a villain that doesn't do much to make them less hated.
On the note of power, I have been more or less flexible about it. The way I see it, if I'm playing my character as competent, losing constantly would damage what I've built up for her, but at the same time, she needs to lose crushingly once in a while in order to develop the way I intended. The idea isn't so much losing or winning in an rp fight because it's all fictional and you get nothing but entertainment from it. I just want to write a fun, engaging scene, and hopefully advance the development of both characters. I think most players too are fine with winning or losing if, like previously mentioned, you're not just grandstanding and minimizing their role in the scene.
This is something I often have to consider, since I do tend to play strong characters who are experts at something. I'm really fond of the cloistered prodigy type who was born with innate talent, but is lacking severely in other areas. It's an archetype I'm often pressured to play by others or want to play myself.
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Seriphyn - 02-10-2015
Fantastic postings :o
Nothing much to add at this time other than I've gone through and read the postings, really good stuff. Reflecting, I have begun to look at Kale's martial weaknesses (a brand of hubris) as something naturally begotten of the character, not something purely for the sake of balancing.
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - SicketySix - 02-10-2015
If we really want to delve into this matter of trying to find a realistic balance between our characters then we should discuss what is or isn't possible in say a Rogedyn vs Lalafell (I'm sure I misspelled both of those.) because let's face it, a midget warrior who doesn't barely come to the shins of his opponent is not going to beat him. Their swords are the equivalent to a small pocket-knife, and their bows, given their small sizes would not hardly be capable of a killshot, much less even penetrating basic armor.
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Inessa Hara - 02-10-2015
If we are being realistic, a Roe would crush a lalafell in martial combat easily unless the Lalafell was using Aether to fortify and enhance the physical qualities of their body.
Magic does play a roll in enhanced combat in the game and world lore. Magic can also be made into a realistic combat experience as well, despite how far fetched that sounds.
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Warren Castille - 02-10-2015
It's come up before.
While not quite on the level of housing or White Mages, it's one of the contested things we all agree to disagree on. Mostly.
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - SicketySix - 02-10-2015
(02-10-2015, 11:19 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's come up before.
While not quite on the level of housing or White Mages, it's one of the contested things we all agree to disagree on. Mostly.
Damn I missed that discussion!
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Gegenji - 02-10-2015
(02-10-2015, 11:19 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's come up before.
While not quite on the level of housing or White Mages, it's one of the contested things we all agree to disagree on. Mostly.
I had a feeling that would be linked the moment someone brought up Lalafighting.
Personally, I don't think it's quite as one-sided as one might think, and due to an aforementioned reason - an unknown in a combat situation - rather than a matter of physical strength. While soldiers and such may have been trained to fight opponents both larger than them (Amal'jaa, for example) and smaller (Lalafell, maybe irate Sylphs?), it's still going to be something that will likely throw someone off.
I mean, seriously, you're trying to fight a guy who's likely only coming up to your knee. You're going to have to greatly adjust your attack angles to hit them if they were just standing still, let alone darting around and making a nuisance of themselves. Misstep and you could find your momentum used against you as you stumble face-first down to their level. At which point a knife to the eye or something is going to hurt like hell no matter whose hand it's in.
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - SicketySix - 02-10-2015
I understand the agree to disagree comment because I'd argue that the roe would just punt them across the desert like a football
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Gegenji - 02-10-2015
(02-10-2015, 11:32 AM)A'mon Vespar Wrote: I understand the agree to disagree comment because I'd argue that the roe would just punt them across the desert like a football
Again, hitting a moving target that might not let said Roe make the kick. Not saying it isn't a valid tactic, but it's kinda like saying "My female character would beat a male character just by kicking them in the junk."
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Sounsyy - 02-10-2015
(02-10-2015, 11:15 AM)Amon Vespar Wrote: let's face it, a midget warrior who doesn't barely come to the shins of his opponent is not going to beat him.
Borderlands Series does not agree with your assessment of short people.
![[Image: sepcoverblfull.jpg]](https://www.xboxachievements.com/images/news/sepcoverblfull.jpg)
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - SicketySix - 02-10-2015
(02-10-2015, 11:36 AM)Gegenji Wrote:Fair point, though I still believe that most often then not, in a Row setting, the odds are heavily against the Lalafell.(02-10-2015, 11:32 AM)A'mon Vespar Wrote: I understand the agree to disagree comment because I'd argue that the roe would just punt them across the desert like a football
Again, hitting a moving target that might not let said Roe make the kick. Not saying it isn't a valid tactic, but it's kinda like saying "My female character would beat a male character just by kicking them in the junk."
But then again, as we all know this isn't real life, it's fantasy. Our characters are only as deadly as we allow them to be.
Ignore me, I just like starting controversial discussions haha
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Gegenji - 02-10-2015
(02-10-2015, 11:40 AM)A'mon Vespar Wrote:(02-10-2015, 11:36 AM)Gegenji Wrote:Fair point, though I still believe that most often then not, in a Row setting, the odds are heavily against the Lalafell.(02-10-2015, 11:32 AM)A'mon Vespar Wrote: I understand the agree to disagree comment because I'd argue that the roe would just punt them across the desert like a football
Again, hitting a moving target that might not let said Roe make the kick. Not saying it isn't a valid tactic, but it's kinda like saying "My female character would beat a male character just by kicking them in the junk."
But then again, as we all know this isn't real life, it's fantasy. Our characters are only as deadly as we allow them to be.
Ignore me, I just like starting controversial discussions haha
Nothing overtly controversial. Just highly debatable, given the setting and plenty of Lalafell serving in the military alongside the taller races.
Also, I'd have to refute the "Row" setting - if by that you mean a bar room brawl sort of situation. Those are usually violent, chaotic affairs. Who better to navigate them than someone small, wiry, fast, or any combination of the three compared to a large, burly bloke that has to force his way past people?
It also becomes a matter of skill in the character, which could extend to a match between any of the races. A Lalafell pirate well-rehearsed in the ways of the bar room brawl might have quite the advantage over a Roegadyn merchant who had one too many and crossed a line.
In a generic standoff between a Roe and Lala of equal skill, both equally rested, focused, and geared in a featureless combat ring with no tricks? Reach and general muscle mass would likely mean that the Roe could win due to his biological differences (as he very well might against a Midlander or Miqo'te, possibly a Highlander or Elezen as well). But how often are you going to see such a perfect setup like that?
Any number of differences could turn the fight in the other's favor - whether they be Lala, Miqo'te, Elezen, or Hyur. The Lala vs. Roe debate is just size difference taken to the extreme - the ultimate IG David and Goliath situation. Yet even in that story, wasn't it David that won?
RE: Expectations and balancing of "master fighters/mages" - Melkire - 02-10-2015
(02-10-2015, 11:57 AM)Gegenji Wrote: The Lala vs. Roe debate is just size difference taken to the extreme - the ultimate IG David and Goliath situation. Yet even in that story, wasn't it David that won?
Therein lies the irony of the tale. Depending on the translation, David either brained Goliath with a heavy stone from his sling, or else the thrown stone caught in Goliath's greave, causing him to stumble to his knees in time for David to cut off his head. Either way, size had nothing to do with it. The most-frequently cited example of a small man felling a large man ultimately fails to assert that the small man can win in a direct conflict - instead, he changes the game, disabling his foe from afar before finishing him.