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+--- Thread: Showing and Bowing to Authority (/showthread.php?tid=10062)
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Jana - 02-12-2015
![[Image: 21jqc05.png]](http://i37.tinypic.com/21jqc05.png)
Jana's dealt with characters who, correctly, tell her she has no arresting power as a Flame. But that doesn't mean she can't beat them up before calling for Brass Blades over linkpearl.
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Kellach Woods - 02-12-2015
(02-11-2015, 07:15 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: As for the bit about the Elementals not doing anything to the Poachers in Southern Shroud... very interesting lore tidbit was released that Duskwights (and presumably native Keepers as well) are not beholden to the Pact of Gelmorra. Hence why the Gridanians are so prejudiced against those two races. But in 1.0 the Elementals were seen interacting with the Gridanians a lot more than they are seen now. In 1.0 you saw your fair share of incredibly pissed off Elementals seeking to exact their justice against somebody.
I don't think this is pact related - Otherwise anyone can traipse around in the Shroud, do whatever they wish, without fearing the Elementals.
Unless what you mean is that the Elementals could just not care about the Keepers' poaching (I've not seen Duskwights... anywhere quite frankly, other than Dzemael and the two archaeologists trying to show that Duskwights are good peeps honest in South Shroud) and that the Wailers are using the pact as an excuse to just trample over what they view as excessive hunting.
* * *
As far as IC peoples saying they're from an OOC group enforcing the law, I don't think I've ever encountered someone like this here, but in previous games I've never had a positive interaction with anyone pretending to be that, so I'm in no rush to get involved in that kind of RP.
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Berrod Armstrong - 02-12-2015
This thread makes me want to roll a trembly, wimpy cop (Blade? Yellowjacket? Wailer?) who bursts into tears two sentences into confrontation (and maybe runs away or retreats into a corner). I'll find a way to name him Phillip. I don't even know why.Â
I'll totally make him a big dude, too. Real tough looking.Â
/SLAPS SELF
ALTITIS STAND DOWN.
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Desu Nee - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 08:39 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: This thread makes me want to roll a trembly, wimpy cop (Blade? Yellowjacket? Wailer?) who bursts into tears two sentences into confrontation (and maybe runs away or retreats into a corner). I'll find a way to name him Phillip. I don't even know why.ÂScooby Doo pls.
I'll totally make him a big dude, too. Real tough looking.Â
/SLAPS SELF
ALTITIS STAND DOWN.
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Sounsyy - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 08:29 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: I don't think this is pact related - Otherwise anyone can traipse around in the Shroud, do whatever they wish, without fearing the Elementals.
Well here's the link to the Fernehalwes Interview on Gelmorra. To me, it seems that Duskwight are excepted from the Pact because they actively chose not to accept the Elementals offer. It wasn't until they were allowed to come to the surface without being forced under the same laws as the Gridanians (cuz they weren't Gridanians) that they actually came up. Then of course the Gridanians made sure the Duskwight could never return to Gelmorra...
So all that aside, I think the Pact still applies to outsiders entering the forest, as its the Gridanian's task to protect the Wood from all outside sources. That's part of the Pact. So Greenwrath will still be brought to bear against say... a group of Ul'dahn mercenaries who enter the Wood posing as traders but are actually poaching moogles for their skins. (Yes, that was the 1.0 LNC storyline.)
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Gegenji - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 10:23 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: So Greenwrath will still be brought to bear against say... a group of Ul'dahn mercenaries who enter the Wood posing as traders but are actually poaching moogles for their skins. (Yes, that was the 1.0 LNC storyline.)
So why is the Greenwrath (a concept I still don't fully understand) brought against those poachers and not against the others? Also, would said Greenwrath wrought because the acts of foreigners be brought upon said foreigners or the the folks for Gridania for not properly dealing with the issue? The latter could explain the more... secular and close-knit nature of Gridania.
It also would give the Gridanian authorities a little more clout with trying to get foreigners in line. It sounds like boogeyman talk but... saying you have to obey them or the elements themselves will rise up to smite you (or them, but the offender doesn't need to know that...) could be quite persuasive.
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Sounsyy - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 10:36 AM)Gegenji Wrote: So why is the Greenwrath (a concept I still don't fully understand) brought against those poachers and not against the others? Also, would said Greenwrath wrought because the acts of foreigners be brought upon said foreigners or the the folks for Gridania for not properly dealing with the issue? The latter could explain the more... secular and close-knit nature of Gridania.
That's a really good question... one I've got no clue on. The best I can figure is that (while not explicitly stated in the link I posted, since it's specifically attuned to Duskwights) the Elementals have a similar arrangement with Keepers as they do with the Duskwights who valued their freedom over surface/city life. But we don't have any evidence that the Keepers ever lived in Gelmorra (though it is possible) so it may also be that the Elementals turn a blind eye on those races prejudiced and tortured by the Gridanians in their pursuit of a Utopian Twelveswood.
I can answer the Greenwrath thing. So the moment any person sets foot within the Hedge (a magical barrier around the Twelveswood borders) they begin accruing something called "Woodsin," which is basically exactly what it sounds like. Now, once inside the Wood, say you do something like kill an antelope without permission from the Elementals. That's more Woodsin heaped upon your soul. Now, to Nature, this Woodsin is actually palpable and a lot of Woodsin will actually start driving nearby flora and fauna mad. So the very Wood will come alive and try to kill you to silence your Woodsin.
If you've done an act so damnable that it awakens an Elemental, that is evoking "Greenwrath" upon yourself and it doesn't just put you in danger... it puts everyone in the area in danger. And until the Elemental's fury is quelled, it will destroy everything and everyone in its path, regardless of nationality or purpose. Oftentimes, as recompense for the perpetrators actions, they will take their soul and temper the body to become a thrall for the Wood, called a "Wildling." These Wildlings wander the Wood for all eternity and even in death, their ghosts are not released from the Wood. See video below of Greenwrath:
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Gegenji - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 11:10 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: I can answer the Greenwrath thing. So the moment any person sets foot within the Hedge (a magical barrier around the Twelveswood borders) they begin accruing something called "Woodsin," which is basically exactly what it sounds like. Now, once inside the Wood, say you do something like kill an antelope without permission from the Elementals. That's more Woodsin heaped upon your soul. Now, to Nature, this Woodsin is actually palpable and a lot of Woodsin will actually start driving nearby flora and fauna mad. So the very Wood will come alive and try to kill you to silence your Woodsin.
So by passing the Hedge, you're effectively agreeing to the Pact (unless you're a Duskwight or one of the poachers because "reasons"?) whether you like it or not? Or is the Pact and the Woodsin acclimation two separate things?
And, to keep it vaguely on topic, would you think that "preventing Woodsin" or - more likely - "preventing Greenwrath" would be enough of a reason for a Wailer or God's Bow to step in? And how far would such a reason allow them to act? Would a God's Bow be allowed to slay a poacher under the reason of "preventing Greenwrath"?
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Sounsyy - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 11:29 AM)Gegenji Wrote: So by passing the Hedge, you're effectively agreeing to the Pact (unless you're a Duskwight or one of the poachers because "reasons"?) whether you like it or not? Or is the Pact and the Woodsin acclimation two separate things?
And, to keep it vaguely on topic, would you think that "preventing Woodsin" or - more likely - "preventing Greenwrath" would be enough of a reason for a Wailer or God's Bow to step in? And how far would such a reason allow them to act? Would a God's Bow be allowed to slay a poacher under the reason of "preventing Greenwrath"?
That's the gist yeah, if you pass the Hedge into the Wood, you are consenting to Gridanian law or the Pact. That's why in 1.0 there were not a lot of people who would do this willingly. Like trade caravans from other nations came heavily guarded and were met at the Hedge by Wood Wailers and were personally escorted to Gridania. In the 1.0 ARC questline, there's an interesting segment where a contingent of Ishgardian Holy Knights are leaving the Twelveswood with a bunch of captive heretics the Gridanians had turned over to them. When your character crosses their path, they immediately go for their weapons, but the Knight Captain stands them down and looks around at the Wood and warns them not to draw their weapons because they were guests in the Wood.
And back on topic, yes, a Wood Wailer or Gods Quivermen would most definitely use excessive or lethal force to prevent Greenwrath. A good example is the White Rams in North Shroud who kill Ixal on sight because they were banished from the Wood and most of the time are here to cut down trees (another damnable act per the Pact). Or in the Lv15 Gridanian MSQ (where the Ascian shows up) the Wood Wailers and Gods Quiver slaughter a scouting party of Ixal who are too near one of the Hedgetrees. Cuz, like the cutscenes show, it's not just the perpetrator who's in danger when the Greenwrath is awoken, but everyone. The WHM questline for instance, both 1.0 and 2.0's (with slight variations) have the Player Character attempt to prevent the angered Elementals of the Wood from leveling the entire forest, Gridania with it.
So would a Wood Wailer kill you for poaching... probably not. But burning a tree, chopping down a Hedgetree, or doing something equally damaging to the Wood may earn you a swift death by arrow/spear.
Also! Interesting tidbit from the recent Coeurlclaw Moogle Delivery Quest was that in order to be initiated into the Coeurlclaw Poachers, you have to kill a Wood Wailer... So I think that may inspire a great deal of prejudice when it comes to the way Gridanians deal with poachers in general. Even if not all poachers are inherently dangerous, I'm sure the Coeurlclaws give every poacher a very very bad name.
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Gegenji - 02-12-2015
So Duskwights, along with the Couerlclaws and their ilk, just don't accumulate Woodsin then? That seems... ripe for abuse. I mean, would a Duskwight be able to cut down a Hedgetree without consequence due to being exempt from the Pact? Or do they still do that, but perhaps at a lesser degree or on fewer occasions?
It sounds quite a bit like a sort of bizarre Elemental form of diplomatic immunity. Which... is also a solid topic for a thread like this: can folks claim diplomatic immunity? If they can, who can make the claim and what sort of protection does that give them against authority figures of other nations? Obviously a Gridanian diplomat couldn't haul off and murder an Ul'dahn merchant (or maybe he could, Ul'dah and all), but what things might they be able to do over the average citizen?
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Sounsyy - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 12:02 PM)Gegenji Wrote: So Duskwights, along with the Couerlclaws and their ilk, just don't accumulate Woodsin then? That seems... ripe for abuse. I mean, would a Duskwight be able to cut down a Hedgetree without consequence due to being exempt from the Pact? Or do they still do that, but perhaps at a lesser degree or on fewer occasions?
Your guess is as good as mine. My personal hope is that eventually SE will release lore or a questline or something about the Gelmorrans and the Duskwight and explain some of the intricacies of the Pact of Gelmorra. But honestly, it looks like the lore team is trying to sweep most of Gridanian history under the rug. (Maybe there's a Gridanian Arbiters of Truth league trying to hush up Gelmorra LOL) Like... in 2.0 there's no mention of Wildlings. Only very scant mentions of Woodsin, and I think Greenwrath is only brought up like twice. Once in the MSQ dealing with the Ala Mhigans in Quarrymill and once in the WHM questline. And you never see an Elemental anymore. There's the whole "Elementals were weakened in the Calamity" deal, which is understandable, since they are beings of the planet's aether... but jeez, they've been around since Creation, you'd think they could handle themselves since this is definitely not the planet's first Calamity. (Is it obvious I don't like 2.0's decimation of lore?)
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Berrod Armstrong - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 12:13 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:I'm hoping that they're just obscuring it/holding on tight to use as the focus of a patch/expansion.(02-12-2015, 12:02 PM)Gegenji Wrote: So Duskwights, along with the Couerlclaws and their ilk, just don't accumulate Woodsin then? That seems... ripe for abuse. I mean, would a Duskwight be able to cut down a Hedgetree without consequence due to being exempt from the Pact? Or do they still do that, but perhaps at a lesser degree or on fewer occasions?
Your guess is as good as mine. My personal hope is that eventually SE will release lore or a questline or something about the Gelmorrans and the Duskwight and explain some of the intricacies of the Pact of Gelmorra. But honestly, it looks like the lore team is trying to sweep most of Gridanian history under the rug. (Maybe there's a Gridanian Arbiters of Truth league trying to hush up Gelmorra LOL) Like... in 2.0 there's no mention of Wildlings. Only very scant mentions of Woodsin, and I think Greenwrath is only brought up like twice. Once in the MSQ dealing with the Ala Mhigans in Quarrymill and once in the WHM questline. And you never see an Elemental anymore. There's the whole "Elementals were weakened in the Calamity" deal, which is understandable, since they are beings of the planet's aether... but jeez, they've been around since Creation, you'd think they could handle themselves since this is definitely not the planet's first Calamity. (Is it obvious I don't like 2.0's decimation of lore?)
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Harmonixer - 02-12-2015
Oh wow, this game is full of cool bits of lore that I wouldn't even have known about if it weren't for Sounsyy's posts. Really, this forum in general. People ask good questions and good discussions come up from it. The Woodsin bit is so cool, if terrifying.
On the subject of Authority, and the main topic:
It's been suggested earlier but I think it bears repeating to a certain degree. It may be easier to solicit your services as opposed to applying them directly to the people in question. I don't mind it so much myself, but people have their own ideas on how things are and how it applies to their hyper powered characters. It's so difficult to get someone to respect another without a spending some time sending out OOC tells.
I imagine the most effective way to get around this is to build your reputation through spreading the word out as often and as widely as you can. Since it's community based, as RP is- you'll need a lot of feedback from outside sources. Having canned macros for /tell agreements and the like is how I've seen it done. It can work, and community feedback is very helpful for this sort of thing.
Appearance is huge, and presentation is so key here. You have a very difficult task, needing to seem imposing beyond brawn. Speech, mannerisms and the ability to provide exact answers couldn't be more important here. The longer you speak, the less likely someone is to listen. So concise yet entertaining.
When I played WoW for a while, years back one of my favorite memories was this fellow that used to play a gnome in the Deeprun Tram. For those that don't know, it's a underground railway that connects two major cities, crafted by gnomes and dwarves I believe. Anyway, it's just as much a public mode of transportation as we have in life- so it's not exactly the cleanest. In game there's crushed cups and cans and paper everywhere on the ground, generally dirty and not well kept. Overflowing trashcans and rats.
This gnome was dressed in what could only have been regarded as a uniform and had the title akin to -The Conductor-. I had been on my way to another RP meet and I encountered him somewhat ICly. He caught me off guard rather.
"Excuse me sir..."
'Hmm?'
"You dropped this." -opens a trade window with me, it's some gray trash loot-
'Huh? OH' -by then, I had seen his title and caught on to what he was doing-
"I work hard to keep this place operational! You could do much to at least clean up your mess!"
'Of course sir, how careless of me.'
-we complete the trade and I apologize icly again, he grumbles off and continues to wander about the place talking to players-
I didn't see him again after that, to memory at least. I felt his approach was worth mentioning. It didn't require a tell, but I was already in character and while I wasn't exactly littering icly, it was still something very engaging and interesting I felt.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, find the niche and the rest will work for itself I feel.
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - Gegenji - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 12:33 PM)Harmonixer Wrote: It's been suggested earlier but I think it bears repeating to a certain degree. It may be easier to solicit your services as opposed to applying them directly to the people in question. I don't mind it so much myself, but people have their own ideas on how things are and how it applies to their hyper powered characters. It's so difficult to get someone to respect another without a spending some time sending out OOC tells.
Well, Judge should be good in that regard, then! And awesome story about the Gnome!
It got mentioned on and off in here, but this seems to be the case with "official" authority figures as well - like the Blades and the 'Sworn, yes? That common courtesy means that you should send one of the people involved a /tell and see if they want an authority figure stepping in before doing so, right? Rather than just stepping in and trying to show your authority as the Law.
So how does one handle the situation when they turn you away, or it's less "IC conflict" and more like the aforementioned guy who godmoded killing some Blades and then bragging about it? Is it simply a matter of shrugging and moving on, since it's not your RP anymore by that point (in the case of the former) or you can't feasibly actually affect anything (in the case of the latter)? That answer almost seems too... simple if true, if that makes sense.
You'd figure that, as a lawman, it should be in your duty to step in and resolve an issue that would - ICly - require your attentions. On the other, imposing on other peoples' RP.
RE: Showing and Bowing to Authority - SicketySix - 02-12-2015
(02-12-2015, 12:52 PM)Gegenji Wrote:I don't mind if a lawful person steps into my RP, but if, and like anyone, try to dictate with how my RP is going without consulting me about it privately, or refuses to play along, usually leads to them being on the blacklist. Don't have to worry about them if you can't seem them....(02-12-2015, 12:33 PM)Harmonixer Wrote: It's been suggested earlier but I think it bears repeating to a certain degree. It may be easier to solicit your services as opposed to applying them directly to the people in question. I don't mind it so much myself, but people have their own ideas on how things are and how it applies to their hyper powered characters. It's so difficult to get someone to respect another without a spending some time sending out OOC tells.
Well, Judge should be good in that regard, then! And awesome story about the Gnome!
It got mentioned on and off in here, but this seems to be the case with "official" authority figures as well - like the Blades and the 'Sworn, yes? That common courtesy means that you should send one of the people involved a /tell and see if they want an authority figure stepping in before doing so, right? Rather than just stepping in and trying to show your authority as the Law.
So how does one handle the situation when they turn you away, or it's less "IC conflict" and more like the aforementioned guy who godmoded killing some Blades and then bragging about it? Is it simply a matter of shrugging and moving on, since it's not your RP anymore by that point (in the case of the former) or you can't feasibly actually affect anything (in the case of the latter)? That answer almost seems too... simple if true, if that makes sense.
You'd figure that, as a lawman, it should be in your duty to step in and resolve an issue that would - ICly - require your attentions. On the other, imposing on other peoples' RP.