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+--- Thread: Cliques and RP Etiquette (/showthread.php?tid=10229)
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Nara'to - 02-22-2015
I've literally been around people who were by themselves emoting, which means to me that they're looking. Â Sadly when I try doing the same back every attempt I've made has been ignored.
I just don't get it. Â RP on this game is starting to feel like it's an exclusive club or something that doesn't allow others in ._.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Cato - 02-22-2015
I'm not going to beat around the bush and I'll likely stir up a fair bit of controversy with this post but I feel it's well worth stating this outright: A lot of role-players on this site love to present themselves as being open to role-play, friendly and fun loving people and yet in-game they're incredibly arrogant, needlessly exclusive and have an allergy to anyone who doesn't fawn over their every word.
Not every role-player is a bad apple and it is possible to find great role-play within the FFXIV community but not enough is done to allow fresh blood to get involved outside of pre-planned events and Free Company membership.
Then there's the ridiculous idea and commonly held belief that every last little detail needs to be discussed in advanced. In almost every thread you'll see people spew out the idea that 'OOC communication is important' and yet when push comes to shove many of those stating it don't respond to prompts IC or OOC from anyone who does approach them in-game.
My advice? Don't let it drag you down. Like-minded role-players do exist and there's room for everybody, it just takes a bit of effort and you'll likely have to wade through a fair bit of arrogance and bloated egos before you carve out a nice little group of people to interact with who actually want to role-play and not just treat outsiders like dirt.
It can be a pretty major culture shock to try and get involved in role-play in this community if you've come over from certain other MMO's that aren't nearly as 'exclusive' in terms of role-play. If you see my character around, however, everybody is more than welcome to approach me and set something up! I love getting out of cities rather than just hanging around in the same old locations day in, day out.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Aya - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 04:11 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Then there's the ridiculous idea and commonly held belief that every last little detail needs to be discussed in advanced. In almost every thread you'll see people spew out the idea that 'OOC communication is important' and yet when push comes to shove many of those stating it don't respond to prompts IC or OOC from anyone who does approach them in-game.I think you misunderstood this
The advice was to whisper someone OOCly to see if RP was welcome, or if something was missed in chat scroll. This is not only reasonable, its also polite! Some people do like to have things plotted out, but the vast majority of casual RP (especially) is entirely spontaneous. People are just trying to offer useful advice for someone having trouble breaking into that sort of thing, and I do think its terrific advice! I'm sure I've missed a lot of things like this in the past.. chat scroll is a rough thing, and even if its moving slowly sometimes it difficult (or not really desirable) to read everything that's going by!
I never ignore anyone trying to interact with me intentionally, but I'm sure its happened :-X
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - FreelanceWizard - 02-22-2015
So, I realize I'm in duty a lot (what can I say, I love instances, and I thus do LS RP a lot) and I'm basically never at taverns just hanging out, but please, if you see L'yhta out in the field, feel free to strike up a conversation. I can't guarantee you'll always get the response you want ICly, but I'll at least acknowledge you ICly -- and if I don't, feel free to give me an OOC poke. It's possible I'm AFK and the AFK status hasn't updated correctly, or I'm hammered with tells, or something else, but I will respond. I promise!
If you want to set something up, just drop me a tell. I actually prefer just setting up a premise for characters to interact and seeing where it goes from there, rather than planning out the scene.This is true even when my character is with a group of people, but you also need to consider two things: one, she's usually very focused on what she's doing, and two, she's often quite imperceptive generally. If you want to get her attention, you need to... get her attention.
I generally try to emote back to people who are emoting around me "fishing," but if all you do is emote listening to her when she's facing away from you, she won't notice you're there. If you emote drinking or eating near her, she's not going to bother you unless there's something especially interesting that catches her eye. I don't mind adjusting her behavior a little if you drop me a tell, but I need something to work with IC too in order to be true to who she is.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Seye Qhesu - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 04:22 AM)Aya Wrote:I believe this is best. Whispering someone to get their attention. Not to be rude obviously. I will stand around and tab out of game to watch my shows or just read the forums. Often I will miss people posting to me since well, if I stand there emoting to myself for about 30 minutes and no one bites I am going to find something else to do. Or I will often park myself and walk to my kitchen to make something to eat.(02-22-2015, 04:11 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Then there's the ridiculous idea and commonly held belief that every last little detail needs to be discussed in advanced. In almost every thread you'll see people spew out the idea that 'OOC communication is important' and yet when push comes to shove many of those stating it don't respond to prompts IC or OOC from anyone who does approach them in-game.I think you misunderstood this
The advice was to whisper someone OOCly to see if RP was welcome, or if something was missed in chat scroll. This is not only reasonable, its also polite! Some people do like to have things plotted out, but the vast majority of casual RP (especially) is entirely spontaneous. People are just trying to offer useful advice for someone having trouble breaking into that sort of thing, and I do think its terrific advice! I'm sure I've missed a lot of things like this in the past.. chat scroll is a rough thing, and even if its moving slowly sometimes it difficult (or not really desirable) to read everything that's going by!
I never ignore anyone trying to interact with me intentionally, but I'm sure its happened :-X
The Afk tag isn't instant and half the time I forget to turn it on before I go so I have probably scared people away. I also have my LS in another window due to how spammy it can be and will tab to it and miss the normal chat.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Cato - 02-22-2015
I don't think anybody is going to hold a grudge over someone who is semi-afk or outright afk missing an emote or two. It happens, especially if the location is busy. I've seen people actively role-playing, however, who couldn't possibly have missed someone walking up to their characters and emoting something unless they're deliberately doing it.
Nobody is obligated to interact with anybody else, of course, but OOC communication isn't to everybody's tastes either. Back when I role-played in WoW random interaction just happened on Argent Dawn EU. There was not lengthy song and dance to go through before people were drawn into the fold and anyone role-playing out in the open was automatically assumed to be up for random role-play.
If, for whatever reason, they weren't? Then they'd be the one to send a polite message stating that it's a private affair and they'd usually make it a point to arrange some interaction at a later date as a gesture of good faith.
Thus that is what I was getting at in terms of being a bit of a culture shock for many role-players, especially if they've come over to FFXIV from other MMO's.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Tiergan - 02-22-2015
(02-21-2015, 07:43 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: He explicitly stated this has happened when the chat logs weren't surging with activity.
Whoops! I missed that. In that case - yeah, that is some incredibly bad form. :/
On the otherhand, if they are going to flagrantly ignore someone who is obviously trying to initiate RP with them without so much as a quick look their way to acknowledge they exist - they probably weren't the kind of RPers you'd want tl hang about to begin with.
I wish I could offer better advice on how to rustle up more random RP, but to be honest, I am super shy and actually have difficulty approaching folks for random RP unless I am on a specific character or have a plan in mind. Most of the RP friendships my character has made outside my FC are people he met at server events because when something special happens, its pretty easy to thrust a bunch of strangers together and have them bond as they go through shenanigans.
OP - while I'm not able to play as much as I used to due to real life being a huge pain, feel free to toss me a message on these forums on what days/times you are usually free. If my schedule matches up, I'll hop on Leilani Leilai and we can be each other's RP wingperson. Leilani is the most outgoing, cheerful, and excitable character I have and is pretty much the only character I have that I don't feel sort of awkward approaching random people with - so hopefully between the two of us we can shake things up until RP falls out.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Hyakki - 02-22-2015
(02-21-2015, 07:35 PM)Tiergan Wrote: If they say no - then you can silently judge them for having private RP in the middle of a public, open area instead of meeting up at an FC house or a more a place more secluded. ( Because in my mind, it's just common sense to not RP in a giant public hub full of RPers if you don't want to get approached by other RPers. )
I enjoy being in busy areas and people-watching but I'm shy and panic when strangers approach me. Even with friends it makes me uncomfortable. I don't think I should have to remove myself from these places just becuase I don't take well to walkups.
I had two unpleasant experiences earlier this evening that further put me off on acknowledging walk-ups. In both instances, the groups I was with humored these players. Both times these players had a 'their way or no way' mindset and since they didn't get their way, they were going to do their damnedest to ruin it for everyone.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Rosamund - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 04:41 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Nobody is obligated to interact with anybody else, of course, but OOC communication isn't to everybody's tastes either. Back when I role-played in WoW random interaction just happened on Argent Dawn EU. There was not lengthy song and dance to go through before people were drawn into the fold and anyone role-playing out in the open was automatically assumed to be up for random role-play.
I was also on AD EU and yes, if you were RPing in public, it was pretty much given that you were open for random RP and the onus was on you to explain otherwise if and when you were approached. It seems alien to me for people to RP in a very public place yet refuse to engage in public RP...
I'm not sure what the solution is here. I would like to hope that most of the cases of people being ignored are down to the simple problem of having missed the approach. If that's not the case, well, I would move on and try again. Perhaps try another area altogether if that particular one seems rather insular for whatever reason.
One thing I can say is that, if you see me RPing out in public and approach me, I will absolutely respond. If I happen to be afk, I'll whisper you when I get back and apologise. If I don't respond at all then that means I somehow missed it entirely so a whisper to get my ferret-like attention would be appreciated!
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Hihimi - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 09:08 AM)Inarah Wrote:Wyrmrest Accord (NA) Veteran here, I agree with all of this. I've only had ONE person say "This is a private rp, butt out." to me in MMO Roleplay. Ever.(02-22-2015, 04:41 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Nobody is obligated to interact with anybody else, of course, but OOC communication isn't to everybody's tastes either. Back when I role-played in WoW random interaction just happened on Argent Dawn EU. There was not lengthy song and dance to go through before people were drawn into the fold and anyone role-playing out in the open was automatically assumed to be up for random role-play.
I was also on AD EU and yes, if you were RPing in public, it was pretty much given that you were open for random RP and the onus was on you to explain otherwise if and when you were approached. It seems alien to me for people to RP in a very public place yet refuse to engage in public RP...
I'm not sure what the solution is here. I would like to hope that most of the cases of people being ignored are down to the simple problem of having missed the approach. If that's not the case, well, I would move on and try again. Perhaps try another area altogether if that particular one seems rather insular for whatever reason.
One thing I can say is that, if you see me RPing out in public and approach me, I will absolutely respond. If I happen to be afk, I'll whisper you when I get back and apologise. If I don't respond at all then that means I somehow missed it entirely so a whisper to get my ferret-like attention would be appreciated!
That being said, "cliques" are natural and going to form everywhere, so it's useless to try and stop people from making better friends with one person than another-it's just how personalities work. The unnatural thing is the prevention of the addition of new blood, which should be encouraged, not shunned. Please don't hate on someone for not being there as long as you have been; it's like hating on a baby for being a newborn.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Kirann - 02-22-2015
I am going to chime in here for a few , because I see a lot of great advice being given here but there are also a few things that perhaps I either missed or no one thought of.
Sometimes while Roleplaying I get a tell from a friend, sometimes more then one. I get distracted by it, so i check to see if the person I am Roleplaying with has posted. This goes as well for when I am sitting around with a larger group of people, same approach I am looking to see if they replied if not, I have a few seconds to maybe answer a question a friend asked, someone in my FC or one of the LS I am in .Â
Does it always happen no ? but I have done it so I know it can happen. The best advice though is a sending of a OOC tell/whisper to some in the group , to let them know you are trying to break in to the conversation. Do this and wait for several minutes. WHY might you ask ? Because sometimes people spend a minute or two typing a reply to a conversation going on. You might be trying to break in, but they are stuck waiting for a reply before they can even reply to yours.Â
Are their cliques , yes its natural actually. I tell people I am RPer friendly all the time, and if you see me and I am walking by or hanging out then attempt to interact.Â
I tend to hang back a bit from Large public area's because keeping up with the chat scrolling across my screen can be hectic at times. When that happens I do miss stuff. I wish there was a line break between peoples posts, that alone would make things better for me at least.Â
I will say if your having a hard time breaking in still , go to some of the RP events posted here on this website. Tavern night every Thursday has been an amazing event. There is also a date auction event  coming Saturday (shameless plug in because I am up for auction. ) , put yourself up for auction, it will get some interaction going, and let people know you are out there to Role-play .Â
just don't give up and you will find Role play.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - PandaSong - 02-22-2015
It really seems to depend on the people who are roleplaying. Some are ok with others jumping into their roleplay and others aren't. Personally I'm OK with a random person just joining in (as long as it fits the mood) to anything I'm roleplaying in public at the time. If I wanted something people couldn't bump into, well, I'd roleplay in private. As someone who has encountered a TON of cliques though (even amongst friends), I will usually send a private message first to see if it's ok to jump in.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Magellan - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 04:11 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I'm not going to beat around the bush and I'll likely stir up a fair bit of controversy with this post but I feel it's well worth stating this outright: A lot of role-players on this site love to present themselves as being open to role-play, friendly and fun loving people and yet in-game they're incredibly arrogant, needlessly exclusive and have an allergy to anyone who doesn't fawn over their every word.Though the wording is a bit strong, and I think you are guilty of sweeping generalizations, I'm glad you brought up a dissenting viewpoint. It's an idea with some merit, and one I've noticed myself. I would not say a lot of roleplayers, as you have, but I would certainly say some.
The issue is time. For awhile now I've thought parts of the rp community can be similar to that of the PvE endgame community. For players like me, who level slowly, and rarely touch endgame (if ever) even trying to get involved can be a hurdle. I come to the game so late, that those who have been doing it forever expect certain things: a high level of gear. A thorough comprehension of how the dungeon is run. And an ability to adapt when the situation goes bad. Quite honestly? They don't have time to hold my hand and teach a noob like me. They want fast, efficient, smooth runs, and it is well within their right to expect as much. I won't fault them for wanting to spend their time in game to their level of enjoyment.
Thankfully, there ARE those out there willing to take a new person under their wing, but they certainly aren't the majority. Not everyone LIKES helping others. We are all just human after all. Though I myself love to help out if able, I have flaws in other areas, so cannot get mad if someone else doesn't want to help me.
The same thing kind of happens in RP. When someone takes the time to stop PvEing... takes the time to step away from their kids, their job, or whatever else they might have going on to RP; they EXPECT a certain level of smoothness. Of efficiency, and of enjoyment. After all, enjoyment is the ultimate aim of RP. I'll tie this in here:Â
(02-22-2015, 08:23 AM)Mamushi Wrote: I had two unpleasant experiences earlier this evening that further put me off on acknowledging walk-ups. In both instances, the groups I was with humored these players. Both times these players had a 'their way or no way' mindset and since they didn't get their way, they were going to do their damnedest to ruin it for everyone.A lot of people have had extremely negative experiences trying to cater to others in RP, in trying to be inclusive, of opening up their characters to complete strangers who they don't know from Adam. Just like you irl, might ignore the stranger on the street who comes up to you and starts talking, because there isn't a level of trust there, so too, might this happen in RP. I once had a character almost get eaten by a cannibal, a complete stranger I decided to accept random RP with, and my character was in no position to keep this from happening. I had to put the kabosh on the whole scene, thereby making the entire thing moot. I have no problem retconning like that, but others do. *Shrug*
People get jaded. They don't want to embrace ever new rper that comes along, because they don't want to end up in scenes like the one I just mentioned. It's nothing personal, it's that their wariness of outsiders has grown over time. That's why, to me, OOC communication is so important, because it serves as an icebreaker, AND reminds others that yes, there is a human on the other side of the computer looking for enjoyment through RP as well.
However, as you yourself pointed out, no one is obligated to RP with anyone. If people want to RP in cliques, okay. No problem. It falls upon those who want a more open world environment then to make that happen. Establish events. Not big, hollywood produced events.... just a Shout in game 'Come RP at (X location)'. Or... as if often the case on these sites... I have seen 4 or 5 threads in the past week alone about people struggling to break into RP. I have to ask myself; have those people messaged each other on this site to set something up? You are clearly looking for RP, they are clearly looking for RP.... seems simple, yes?
One more thing I'll add is; it takes skill to incorporate a stranger or walk-up into an ongoing scene. A DM's skill. Not everyone has it. A lot of people are flat out bad at it. They aren't really ignoring you per se, but either they OOCly, or their character ICly, or perhaps both at the same time, lack the skill and confidence to juggle the conversation they are currently engaged in, along with this new conversation coming in. They aren't necessarily being rude, they may just be overwhelmed.
Long story short; there is no ONE reason why cliques and ignoring others happens in RP. There are lots of reasons. Some are legitimate, some are good, some are not. But my advice for those looking for RP and feeling shut out, is to look for others on this forum who have voiced the same thing, and schedule a meet-up! Also browse the linkshells and fc's forum. You can have up to 8 linkshells! That's a lot of opportunities to make contacts you might not make through random walk-up RP alone.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Verranicus - 02-22-2015
As someone trying to get back into RP after being distracted for a long while by real life stuff and then leveling all the classes to 50, I understand feeling frustrated by insular groups and cliques. Even in my current FC with friends I find it difficult to inject my character into ongoing plots or situations with people I barely know.
Not to say anyone is to blame for this but myself, I'm just not sure how to get past it.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - IvikBlack - 02-22-2015
I have a few objections, qualms, and suggestions. Please note, even if I disagree with you, I hold everyone here in the highest regard and mean no offense by it.
1) "Events are a good place to meet people."
I haven't found this to be generally accurate. As someone who has attended ~20 events in the last few months, the only one that resulted in me making more contacts for RP was the Starlight Ball. This is because most events are so focused on some kind of performative centerpiece that the participants in the event interact with each other very little and/or because of the aforementioned chatspam.
2) The Quicksand is the one place to consistently find RP and the community derides it.
Nearly every one of my positive interactions with people outside of my RP partner have started in the Quicksand. I generally can't find people anywhere else with any regularity. And yet the community makes fun of Quicksand RP constantly by mentioning the supposed rampant ERP there (it happens, I've seen the roots of it, but it's not anywhere near as constant as people say it is).
Because of this a lot of the more established people avoid the place, leaving RP noobs to interact with a smaller, less connected pool of people. And everyone there kind of feels like a pariah when they see the jokes flying even if they weren't there for anything having to do with ERP. It sucks.
3) The lack of a central RP hub is especially damaging to new people.
This site/open RP/every RP LS I've been in has tons of people I have never seen RP. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they do, which just tells you that I don't have access to the areas/events in which they choose to RP. That in and of itself makes you feel like you're excluded from the clique.
***
Events largely benefit people who are established. It gives them something novel to react to around friends they've already made. They're a point of diversity for their character. Those who are new are just looking to make those friends to begin with.
I think what's really needed is a strong, central RP hub that everyone agrees on. It would need to be a large enough area so that the problem of chat spam can be addressed spatially. Ideally there would be multiple buildings with different themes to include diverse people (bar only wouldn't work).
Sadly, I'm not sure if such a place even exists and doubly that people would support it.