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+--- Thread: Overpowered or underpowered characters? (/showthread.php?tid=10288)
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Kirann - 02-24-2015
(02-24-2015, 02:31 AM)Mitzer The Mighty Wrote: My preference is playing the underpowered trope character whose entire role is to bring people together and make the people who are stronger more noticeable. I enjoy the simple connections, the long journey, not entirely what is at the end of the road. That is just my interest. Not everyone is going to have the same interest. There is no right answer. It's all preference.
I enjoy playing the under powered troupe as well, sometimes not getting the meaning of things, while always trying to do her best. I have found it balances well with a lot of different RP groups , helps people bond , and makes for fun RP stories later on.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Zyrusticae - 02-25-2015
(02-24-2015, 02:21 AM)Iex Wrote: [...]This. Exactly this.
I will disagree that 'powerful' characters do not belong with common folk. Powerful does not mean disconnected from society. They may be heroes, rivals, and villains, but they are still people. Given that they aren't 'famous' or 'infamous' to the point the guards would take note, there is no reason a character can't take a day off and 'have a whiskey' with a merchant. The trope and archetype of the character should not take over the character, person before profession. Naturally... some extremes would prevent that... but in my experience those are normally player created NPCs that are used as major figures in RP.
[...]
There's nothing inherent about a "hero" or "villain" that says that they MUST be disconnected from society in some way. If anything, that just makes for a more boring story, as you lose any attachment to their 'human' (re: relatable) side. They may be extraordinary people, but they are still people.
(02-24-2015, 02:31 AM)Mitzer The Mighty Wrote: My question is simply what people like to play and why. Nothing more. I'm not interested in either example enough to invest more time than it's worth. I don't believe one is more important than the other, stated from the beginning both are integral to plot. If that managed to offend anyone I think they are reading into it with their own flavor. No need for insults over a simple topic. My only interest is what people like to roleplay and why. As someone who has rped multiple roles from both ends of the spectrum to balance out/ move story along I'm aware of how that works.The problem with your OP is that the first example is so terrible and so obviously biased that it taints the whole poll and the question of the topic itself. It says to me (whether you intended it or not) that a lot of your preference is caused by a complete lack of exposure to "overpowered" characters done well.
My preference is playing the underpowered trope character whose entire role is to bring people together and make the people who are stronger more noticeable. I enjoy the simple connections, the long journey, not entirely what is at the end of the road. That is just my interest. Not everyone is going to have the same interest. There is no right answer. It's all preference.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Gaspard - 02-25-2015
(02-24-2015, 02:21 AM)Iex Wrote: There are no 'Overpowered' or 'Underpowered' characters.
Characters exist that are different. The perception of a character's 'power' merely comes from RP (as many have stated). A character could be a demi-god, but if they are RPed well and appropriately for the situations they are in and works well with other characters, no one will care. A character could be entirely helpless, but still be fun to RP with despite the weakness.
There is a difference between, a new rper, a "bad" rper, and a character that seems strong or weak. When a character is RPed, the trick comes from rping the character appropriate for the situation and the folks around you. Sometimes some groups your character may need to more mundanely rped and sometimes the RP calls for some nice epic scenes. It all depends on the situation and players in the RP.
I will disagree that 'powerful' characters do not belong with common folk. Powerful does not mean disconnected from society. They may be heroes, rivals, and villains, but they are still people. Given that they aren't 'famous' or 'infamous' to the point the guards would take note, there is no reason a character can't take a day off and 'have a whiskey' with a merchant. The trope and archetype of the character should not take over the character, person before profession. Naturally... some extremes would prevent that... but in my experience those are normally player created NPCs that are used as major figures in RP.
There was a thread of similar discussion earlier but I realized... I can't find it anymore.
(02-25-2015, 01:49 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:(02-24-2015, 02:21 AM)Iex Wrote: [...]This. Exactly this.
I will disagree that 'powerful' characters do not belong with common folk. Powerful does not mean disconnected from society. They may be heroes, rivals, and villains, but they are still people. Given that they aren't 'famous' or 'infamous' to the point the guards would take note, there is no reason a character can't take a day off and 'have a whiskey' with a merchant. The trope and archetype of the character should not take over the character, person before profession. Naturally... some extremes would prevent that... but in my experience those are normally player created NPCs that are used as major figures in RP.
[...]
There's nothing inherent about a "hero" or "villain" that says that they MUST be disconnected from society in some way. If anything, that just makes for a more boring story, as you lose any attachment to their 'human' (re: relatable) side. They may be extraordinary people, but they are still people.Â
I never questioned that overpowered and extraordinary people aren't people, and ofcourse they'll be able to kick back once every now and then. And yes, not every hero/villain MUST be disconnected from society.Â
However, there 'are' class differences. You can compare it to Actors/Celebrities/CEO's of large companies, Sports Stars and what not. They, within their branch are in an upper echelon that they usually reside and surround themselves in. Do they branch out into other fields? sure, for an hour a week perhaps. Sometimes a bit more. But the majority of their time is in their field, in their craft, honing their skill or making use of it. Chances are that you, as a common person, will 'never' just stumble over President Obama and your Local Wal Mart, Will never shout at Oprah for cutting of your parking space, and so on.
Characters of an elite proficiency usually are restrained towards the social circle that goes with it, unless they've fallen from that circle (and are, therein, drifters).Â
Anyway, whichever way you twist and turn it, my point in regards to 'social isolation' with power was aimed specifically at the extreme example. The overpowered chosen one, the Hydealyn Atom bomb, the one-hit-kill wonder. Those are figures that, while they don't 'have' to be socially isolated, it still makes little to no sense for them to just 'hang around a bar' for consecutive days on end because they're 'bored'.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Cato - 02-25-2015
The biggest problem with powerful characters is that many role-players seek to embrace all the perks and none of the drawbacks that accompany such a role. An experienced soldier would realistically spend most of their time fighting their foes and would be exhausted during what little free time they actually have to piece together something resembling a social life.
Yet because of how frequently instant teleportation is embraced that eliminates the 'distance' drawback for many. You'll see people fighting in La Noscea one minute and then teleporting to Gridania shortly afterwards.
So what other drawbacks does that leave us with? Well, anyone who has actually been to a real battlefield will agree that it isn't something you just get over. It affects one's ability to connect with their friends and family due to the trauma that arises as a result of injuring and killing others for a living.
...and yet that is rarely exploited as a drawback either since the majority of powerful characters happen to be role-played as social butterflies who somehow manage to juggle everything at once.
Putting aside the mental trauma there's also the risk of physical trauma which, again, so rarely ends up being embraced as a realistic drawback. Instant healing is often embraced, eliminating much of the danger and potential for scarring. Thankfully some role-players are brave enough to go down the route of allowing their character to bear some lasting damage but it seems to be fairly rare from what I've seen in-game.
In short, I have no issue with powerful characters...assuming they're not just created with the intention of wanking off their creator's ego. If you're going to put your character on a pedestal above everybody else's then the least that can be done is to exploit some realistic drawbacks that are actually drawbacks and not just vague cop outs like 'he is too nice'.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Dimona - 02-25-2015
I believe that the most compelling characters for the sake of role-play experiences are those that fit most naturally in the given setting. Any character with her own strengths and weaknesses can be both compelling and interesting so long as those strengths and weaknesses fall in line with what is normal for the Universe. I find myself okay with a certain amount of distance from the game's lore, but some liberties bug me when they go too far. Sue behavior is real. There seem to be some role-players in every community who forget that they are but one of many and view themselves as the all-important, all-powerful center of the Universe. That just makes me roll my eyes and I often do what I can to keep clear of such people. They usually make it pretty easy to handwave in-character anyway.
If I have to vote for one, I prefer underpowered to overpowered, but to be curt, I prefer average. Taking average characters into big adventures is a lot more interesting and exciting to me than taking larger-than-life characters.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - CrimsonMars - 02-25-2015
I usually try to be 'in-between' actually. My main character is fairly strong, but I wouldn't want to call her 'overpowered,' She has her strengths and weaknesses just like everyone else, and is slowly but surely learning as she goes. I would say she is capable of fighting level 35, (and maybe even 40 if she's lucky) enemies if we're going by level here. Any higher and she'll probably need some help or just back off entirely.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Cercil - 02-25-2015
I always play a bit of both, on extreme scales as well. Or in multiple shades of grey, depending on the lore. I think this is less about just "Overpowered or Underpowered" more than it is how these kinds of characters are written.
(Sadly, in FFXIV terms, my sub ran out and school has choked up my time from playing, but I still do lurk here quite a bit).
Overpowered characters are subjective depending on where you place them and how they are crafted. But I feel many RPers, when they see Overpowered, they think some perfect warrior type who knows everything - which, by the way, is what the definition mostly pertains too. But then that brings it's own problems, because just being Overpowered doesn't make a character bad in any way if it's done correctly. And I notice many RPers never take the personalities of characters into consideration, as there could be a lot more than simply their abilities.Â
Sadly, after years of experience, we're kind of hardwired to see it that way. All of us have both cringeworthy and hilarious horror stories about it.
However, I agree with Gaspard's points and Graeham's, the reason why we tend to see Overpowered characters in a bad light is because all of the perks are reaped, but never the negatives. Many of the strongest characters, by the stereotype, are not afflicted by anything they do, let alone in a world like FFXIV's. And some of the Overpowered types are played a bit unrealistically, i.e Overpowered character hanging out in a place that isn't suiting for their rank/ability rank.Â
However, Underpowered characters can also be just as bland, because there isn't anything interesting with a clean slate that is talentless or unlikable. Just as there is none with a character who cannot be stopped.
But I believe that with the right kind of quality of writing, either of these types of characters can be pulled off, and that's why I play both. Both tropes of Overpowered and Underpowered characters, given the right settings and personality, can be greatly compelling and even enjoyable. Know the lore, and think of how to play your character, Overpowered or Underpowered.Â
Overpowered characters are great, especially if they're done right because if you have ever been with an Overpowered character, or played one (at least in my experience), there's a lot more to focus on than just their abilities. Even the greatest beings have faults.
Underpowered characters are also compelling to watch. It's kind of like cheering on the underdog. They grow on you.
Overall, in my opinion - I love and play both types of characters when there is more to focus on than just how many abilities they have, or how talentless they are. I want to make both types for FFXIV, when I know how to do so correctly.
And just as a last note, in case no one has mentioned it. A character cannot be Overpowered if all of the forces around that character are just as equally powerful, so that it evens out. Same whole deal with the Mary/Gary sue thing. And vice versa for Underpowered characters.
TL;DR: Both types of characters are great in my opinion, but they have to be written with skill and not just focus on all of the positives or negatives. A.K.A character balancing. I RP both kinds of characters.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Parvacake - 02-25-2015
(02-25-2015, 08:55 PM)Cercil Wrote: TL;DR: Both types of characters are great in my opinion, but they have to be written with skill and not just focus on all of the positives or negatives. A.K.A character balancing. I RP both kinds of characters.^^^^^^^^^ Pretty much my thoughts on it. If you can write it well, have at it!
I was in a worgen oriented guild in WoW for a while where there was a main antagonist that was meant to give everyone trouble. People in the guild all acknowledged he was supposed to be powerful for the sake of the story and the abilities he possessed so it made it a lot of fun! Even though he was only like level 71 when the level cap at the time was 85.
I usually play underpowered characters myself. Reason being (to put it bluntly) is that I'd rather not have people throwing a bitch fit if my character happens to be their better when you look at it from a logical combative stance, which has been my experience more then once in the past. It's made me avoid most forms of combat RP altogether save with those I feel more comfortable with.
It's easier sometimes to have a character who just loses and there's no arguments then have a character that gets the upperhand and someone gets butt hurt about it.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Mitzer The Mighty - 02-25-2015
(02-25-2015, 02:30 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: The biggest problem with powerful characters is that many role-players seek to embrace all the perks and none of the drawbacks that accompany such a role. An experienced soldier would realistically spend most of their time fighting their foes and would be exhausted during what little free time they actually have to piece together something resembling a social life.(Disclaimer, my typing may be off, not feeling well. If it's super incoherent I'll edit it later)
Yet because of how frequently instant teleportation is embraced that eliminates the 'distance' drawback for many. You'll see people fighting in La Noscea one minute and then teleporting to Gridania shortly afterwards.
So what other drawbacks does that leave us with? Well, anyone who has actually been to a real battlefield will agree that it isn't something you just get over. It affects one's ability to connect with their friends and family due to the trauma that arises as a result of injuring and killing others for a living.
...and yet that is rarely exploited as a drawback either since the majority of powerful characters happen to be role-played as social butterflies who somehow manage to juggle everything at once.
Putting aside the mental trauma there's also the risk of physical trauma which, again, so rarely ends up being embraced as a realistic drawback. Instant healing is often embraced, eliminating much of the danger and potential for scarring. Thankfully some role-players are brave enough to go down the route of allowing their character to bear some lasting damage but it seems to be fairly rare from what I've seen in-game.
In short, I have no issue with powerful characters...assuming they're not just created with the intention of wanking off their creator's ego. If you're going to put your character on a pedestal above everybody else's then the least that can be done is to exploit some realistic drawbacks that are actually drawbacks and not just vague cop outs like 'he is too nice'.
Just have to say that is a beautiful example of how an overpowered character can really be worked well into the world of Final Fantasy.
I had a character years ago not from the world of Final Fantasy who was what you would consider higher in the power department. He was created to help a friend who had an undead underground storyline. Most people were playing Blade-like vampires that ate npcs and had all of the god perks of said vamprism, even removing the negatives of the disease by use of magic, enchanted jewelry, or half breed or what-have-you.
I really don't care for vampires, but he was a friend so I designed a Human.. since, there were NONE being roleplayed. I got inspiration from Father Anderson from Hellsing, mixed with the insane reverend from Half-Life's Ravenholm. He was a military strategist suffering from PTSD. He used IEDs, bowguns, whatever his money could afford him from check to check in order to keep the undead back. Alcohol abuse doesn't make the best marksman. I balanced his ability to get things done when a mini nuke was requested by the story writer, when the other characters got the hint they can't rampage and eat every human in the city without consequence it created a balance. My friend was the official OP and would not be able to be beaten by mine, but this was a mutual understanding and gave all parties reason to work together instead of soloing npcs all day. Eventually it let roleplayers who were too afraid to join in actually pick living characters, which picked the story up from being a dying forum to one that had to be split up for being so huge. It's that sort of teamwork that moves stories along.
My favorite character was a guy who was a mummy with a chain smoking habit that would light himself on fire at inopportune times. His character was so hilarious it cut back a lot of the serious player's tensions. I try to strive to be more like him.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Dis - 03-02-2015
I am a Voidsent Potato. Â
In all honesty, I'd say I relate somewhere between Adventurer 1 and Adventurer 2. Â One of my characters is frighteningly strong (my main), while some of my other characters are painfully average, and I enjoy them all equally. Â I don't view characters in terms of 'power' as much as I do personality, and will.
An "underpowered" character with a strong will can beat out an overpowered character in terms of the type of individual I'd rather play with, if they present their story well. Â At the same time, a world full of average joe's is what we live in, and if I really wanted to deal with that, I'd go outside. Â I love RP for the diversity in characters, the strong ones, the weaker ones, and the ones striving to go from one side of the table to the other. Â
I've got characters that range from the top of the spectrum to the bottom, and really have no issues accepting similar characters from others. Â
I do understand what people mean when they refer to people only showing off the perks of their stronger characters. Â Glioca, for example, after she separated from her ex-wife, went on a training binge. Â She lost the curvy figure she had to muscle and being too thin, spent all of her time exhausted and staggering around, and was so out of it from fatigue that she got swiped in the face during a fight with a dragon - something that never would have happened to her before, because she has great situational awareness. Â
She could have healed that wound, and made sure it barely scarred, but she wanted to keep it as a mark that she herself was not infallible. Â She was still subject to the rules of the world, despite how strong she was. Â She could make mistakes, be careless. Â She spent a month or more after her hardcore binge recovering, and was exceptionally weak, physically, until she started taking better care of herself.Â
I like to see the weak side of strong characters every now and again, if only because it reminds me that these characters have a more human side to them, out of their scope of power.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Madda - 03-03-2015
Some say Madda is a void potato.Â
Madda was just cursed to always say Madda instead of the "bad words."
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Gegenji - 03-03-2015
(03-03-2015, 11:01 AM)Madda Wrote: Some say Madda is a void potato.Â
Madda was just cursed to always say Madda instead of the "bad words."
Why would you avoid potatoes? They're delicious.
On a more serious note, do we have a contextual baseline in game of the "general" strength of adventurers? Obviously the average power level will vary with who you're playing with, but is there any IG information on what the "average" adventurer could do? Or the average enlisted soldier?
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Hihimi - 03-03-2015
(03-03-2015, 11:11 AM)Gegenji Wrote:Void potatoes are fun though.(03-03-2015, 11:01 AM)Madda Wrote: Some say Madda is a void potato.Â
Madda was just cursed to always say Madda instead of the "bad words."
Why would you avoid potatoes? They're delicious.
On a more serious note, do we have a contextual baseline in game of the "general" strength of adventurers? Obviously the average power level will vary with who you're playing with, but is there any IG information on what the "average" adventurer could do? Or the average enlisted soldier?
Um, I think it'd be similar to soldiers in real life. Except instead of guns/knives, it's magic swords, and instead of grenades/flamethrowers, it's magic spells.
Healing makes this a bit tricky, but I say powerful Dedicated healers could undo damage at the same rate a grenade does damage--we just couldn't restore anything dead to life. Other self-healing abilities would probably not function as efficiently, as the user probably isn't specialized to heal, but to harm, which are two entirely different knowledge sets when it comes to magic.
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Hyrist - 03-04-2015
I play both, and enjoy playing both.
But I try not to think of a character as 'under-powered' or 'overpowered' to do so removes definition from a character and starts throwing conversations about role playing into an 'us vs them' mentality that I just don't support.
What boils down to is how well the story is played.Â
A person with no particularly great traits using quick wits to conquer a difficult situation.
A person of great skill who struggles internally with the weight of responsibility, and the dreaded feeling of isolation that sometimes comes with being set apart.
Or even someone who was once great, or headed down a great path but wound up facing the ruination of all that they worked hard for.
All of these are good stories to tell, just tell them well and be respectful towards one another. It's really that simple. The biggest problems I see when it comes to the concept of under and over powered is how people treat one another with it. How an overpowered character played well can still be treated with scorn, or how an under-powered character gets manhandled by someone who abuses their character's traits.
These situations can be resolved with being on the level with each other and solving problems OOCly. Communication, Cooperation and Consent are the cornerstones of good RP everything else is just a matter of tastes.
I just happen to like a bit of variety in mine. Everything from the dark and serious to the absolute slap-stick ridiculous, to the simple and down to earth types. They're all good if you find the right people to do them. And what makes Final Fantasy such a great backdrop to RP with is that it often contains all of them. We really have a great game and community here. If I can give some advice I'd say lean on that a bit and let yourself try some things outside your normal comfort zone - you might find yourself finding enjoying RP all over again.
(Also. I picked Voidsent Potato. Twice-baked with scallions, a touch of virgin olive oil and garlic with a tea spoon of Alfredo sauce in the mash mix. >.> )
RE: Overpowered or underpowered characters? - Caspar - 03-04-2015
(03-03-2015, 11:01 AM)Madda Wrote: Some say Madda is a void potato.ÂThis one would love to know what the 'bad words' you speak of are.
Madda was just cursed to always say Madda instead of the "bad words."