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+--- Thread: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') (/showthread.php?tid=11074)
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Warren Castille - 04-14-2015
(04-14-2015, 08:15 AM)Aaron Wrote: Just rewatched the scene with Thancred and Yugiri and this raises a question for those who feel against being like the MCs with a burning passion. To avoid animosity I want to stress this is to no one in particular.Â
If Thancred is a Rogue (Which he is.) And he say, cuts through steel at one point with a little knife.
Is it suddenly off limits for a Rogue to do that without being Thancred?
Raubaughns (failed so hard at spelling) is a Highlander right? He kicked a pillar like a football.
Would it /really/ be awkward if say (hope he doesn't mind me using his character) Berrod opened a chakra and did the same thing? Id understand going wtf if Aaron did that because he's half Raus size but I wouldn't see anything weird if a known powerful Highlander like Berrod did it.
Im curious to the replies.
I'll bite (to no one's surprise).
A lot of these questions have to be answered personally. Weapons cutting through steel? Some people will not bat an eye, others will wonder why anyone bothers wearing armor. I'm of the opinion that those scenes are done for the spectacle of the fight - these characters are also Main Characters so they should be allowed to also do crazy bullshit. That's likely the most clear dividing line though: As roleplayers, are we also the main character?
Raubahn kicks a pillar, breaking it clean off and using it as a projectile. Could Berrod do it? I don't know, is Berrod on Raubahn's "level" so to speak? Thancred cut through armor with knives - is Aaron on Thancred's level? It's kind of a polarizing discussion. Most people I know are firmly decided on one or the other; You don't get a lot of instances of people waffling on how superheroic their characters are. You've got the folks going "yes, I am playing Devil May Cry all the time" and you've got the folks going "No, leave me and my flock of sheep alone, this winter has been a hard one."
Both are equally correct ways to interpret things.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Caspar - 04-14-2015
(04-14-2015, 06:35 AM)Imo Wrote: Thing that makes me scratch my head: people demanding that you only play characters with realistic, down-to-earth abilities in Final Fantasy.I wouldn't really say that it's specifically Japanese. Many superhero comics do this too. There are a lot of handwaved, secondary powers, for instance, in a lot of superhero abilities, such as the Flash not burning to a crisp and being able to actually see when he uses superspeed. I dislike the assertion that anything superhuman is "Japanese" or "anime," because having watched a variety of anime and played a variety of Japanese games, i can't feel that this is a constant about them.
Another thing that makes me scratch my head: people who give spellcasters free pass to do anything because magic, but demand that warrior types be limited by real world physics.
I play all of Imogene's paladin abilities as IC - all of those flashing lights accompanying high level sword techniques, the ability to get stomped on by a huge dragon and survive, and such. This is how the game envisions a high level character, and I stick to it. Also, very little of that is magic - most of it is because powerful heroes are simply that good. I don't think Raubahn's show of power is him using aether, either - at least not in the way mages or monks do. Chalking up all physics-breaking abilities as magic is a very western approach, that ignores the fact that this is a Japanese game - and in Japanese stories, characters whose skill lets them perform supernaturally amazing feats, not because of magic but because they're just that good, are very common.
If anyone wants to play a more mundane, realistic character, I am perfectly okay with this. Just don't demand that others do so as well.
I think of things like heroes from old legends, where superhuman abilities are treated as part of why they're heroic. They don't need to be a person who can save the world, but I think it's okay for them to be a larger than life figure who has unique powers or talents few others possess.
But yeah, it's undefined what is magic and what isn't. That's why I tried to use it sparingly, only really bringing aether into the picture where it can lessen suspension of disbelief. I'm certain I'll be forced to use it given that a lot of people can't seem to accept physically strong Lalas, lol. XD
And don't mind the people touting caster superiority. It's sort of unrelated, but that attitude reminds me of those folks who loved D&D 3.5 because it was a paradise for casters where other classes could do little but lick their boots. I have hated magic casters ever since I was introduced to that awful game system. It's one thing I still can't be objective about.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - allgivenover - 04-14-2015
(04-14-2015, 06:35 AM)Imo Wrote: Thing that makes me scratch my head: people demanding that you only play characters with realistic, down-to-earth abilities in Final Fantasy.
This is because the original version of the game was much more "low fantasy" than the direction it's taken since A Realm Reborn. A lot of 1.0 players like myself had that lingering impression and I was well into 2.0 before I realized that there'd been a dramatic shift.
At this point it's apparent that aether gives skilled people superpowers. 2.55 cut-scenes and the Dragoons in the Heavensward trailer confirm it. It's actually going against the lore to argue that characters can't accomplish superhuman feats with the right skill, training, and experience.
EDIT: This doesn't mean "low fantasy, low power RP" is wrong. There's plenty of low-powered people in the setting and characters portrayed by Rpers, myself being one of them. It's just wrong to insist that no one should be able to do these things.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - V'aleera - 04-14-2015
(04-14-2015, 01:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: This is because the original version of the game was much more "low fantasy" than the direction it's taken since A Realm Reborn.We're talking about the same 1.0 that has Yda literally punching bullets out of the air, right?
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - allgivenover - 04-14-2015
(04-14-2015, 01:47 PM)Intaki Wrote:(04-14-2015, 01:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: This is because the original version of the game was much more "low fantasy" than the direction it's taken since A Realm Reborn.We're talking about the same 1.0 that has Yda literally punching bullets out of the air, right?
I did type "much more low fantasy than the direction it's taken since a Realm Reborn", not "had no fantastical elements whatsoever."
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Warren Castille - 04-14-2015
(04-14-2015, 01:47 PM)Intaki Wrote:(04-14-2015, 01:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: This is because the original version of the game was much more "low fantasy" than the direction it's taken since A Realm Reborn.We're talking about the same 1.0 that has Yda literally punching bullets out of the air, right?
The Scions were established as being a lot more capable than Random Schlub Adventurer to begin with. 2.0 starts with you WIELDING MAGIC ARMOR IN FRONT OF THE PROTOCRYSTAL. 1.0 opened with the world ending, and you walking down a street. There wasn't any indication it'd be any different than any other MMO with powerful characters - The NPC kills the Lich King, not you.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - allgivenover - 04-14-2015
(04-14-2015, 01:51 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: The NPC kills the Lich King, not you.
Gawd that killed any desire to follow WoW's plot for me.
Also, there must always be a Lich King.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Warren Castille - 04-14-2015
(04-14-2015, 02:03 PM)allgivenover Wrote:(04-14-2015, 01:51 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: The NPC kills the Lich King, not you.
Gawd that killed any desire to follow WoW's plot for me.
Also, there must always be a Lich King.
It's kind of a running joke in MMOs. FFXI was a bit better in letting you also be present for big events, but the hero basically always was whatever heroine got featured in the expansion. It wasn't ever about you, the player. It was about you watching them.
XIV spits directly into the eyeball of that, though we've got no idea what the original vision of the arc was going to be.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Imo - 04-15-2015
(04-14-2015, 07:22 AM)Val Wrote: I try not to knock people for doing that. However, I also recognize that a lot of the characters doing super flashy things in Final Fantasy games are the main characters--of which I will stress again that we are not. As for being stomped on by a dragon and how the game envisions a high level character, I think it's best to separate game mechanics and RP. Otherwise, your character never gets tired and they can run forever and so on and so forth.
Correction: you are not. And that's perfectly okay. I, however, play the game with the assumption that Imogene is the main character of her own story. And I play her on the power level of a Final Fantasy party member.
(04-14-2015, 01:18 PM)Caspar Wrote: And don't mind the people touting caster superiority. It's sort of unrelated, but that attitude reminds me of those folks who loved D&D 3.5 because it was a paradise for casters where other classes could do little but lick their boots. I have hated magic casters ever since I was introduced to that awful game system. It's one thing I still can't be objective about.
As someone very familiar with DND, quoted for truth. In fact, DND players were partially what prompted me to write this, because I see this "magic can do anything, non-mages are limited by RL physics" attitude among them way too often.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Val - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 04:17 AM)Imo Wrote:(04-14-2015, 07:22 AM)Val Wrote: I try not to knock people for doing that. However, I also recognize that a lot of the characters doing super flashy things in Final Fantasy games are the main characters--of which I will stress again that we are not. As for being stomped on by a dragon and how the game envisions a high level character, I think it's best to separate game mechanics and RP. Otherwise, your character never gets tired and they can run forever and so on and so forth.
Correction: you are not. And that's perfectly okay. I, however, play the game with the assumption that Imogene is the main character of her own story. And I play her on the power level of a Final Fantasy party member.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree. When everyone is a special snowflake, no one is a special snowflake
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Warren Castille - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 05:24 AM)Val Wrote:(04-15-2015, 04:17 AM)Imo Wrote:(04-14-2015, 07:22 AM)Val Wrote: I try not to knock people for doing that. However, I also recognize that a lot of the characters doing super flashy things in Final Fantasy games are the main characters--of which I will stress again that we are not. As for being stomped on by a dragon and how the game envisions a high level character, I think it's best to separate game mechanics and RP. Otherwise, your character never gets tired and they can run forever and so on and so forth.
Correction: you are not. And that's perfectly okay. I, however, play the game with the assumption that Imogene is the main character of her own story. And I play her on the power level of a Final Fantasy party member.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree. When everyone is a special snowflake, no one is a special snowflake
No capes.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Aaron - 04-15-2015
Val has a point. If everyone is op technically no one is op.
Lol what I don't agree to us the whole "everyone should be equal" thing.
No one is equal, even in real life. Some people are born naturally superior to others. Some are born naturally weaker. Others worked for their power. Others lost their power.Â
If everyone was really supposed to be equal we should all look exactly the same right? Because some people look much better than others XD
Theres a difference between making your character op and making them weak.
Take for example Ali. Hes popular and stronger than most people. Yet pretty sure there's people out there who are peasants that would whoop Ali's ass in a scrap.
Same applies here. A lot of people have the echo. But even some who don't are still strong.
Su 're your character might not be in the level of the WoL and take on Midsgardsormr.Â
But then again your character could probably be more powerful than Thancred in a physical fight.
Point is as long as no one assumes your going to DBZ levels it's fine to make your character stronger or weaker than others. I for one am perfectly ok with people being stronger than Aaron. One because Aaron already has a reputation for being formidable by the public lol and B because I actually LIKE when Aaron loses yet manages to seriously injure his opponent over winning completely.
It's one of the reasons I IC still brag about fighting Caex, Berrod and others at the grindstone.Â
Sure Aaron lost those fights but he did enough damage to the person to earn their respect. I feel that adds more depth than "Oh yeah he beat so and so."
Anyway wrapping up. Long as you and the other person aren't inherently godmode. Be as unique or powerful/weak as you like. But someone in the end will need to win lol
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Warren Castille - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 08:53 AM)Aaron Wrote: Val has a point. If everyone is op technically no one is op.
Lol what I don't agree to us the whole "everyone should be equal" thing.
No one is equal, even in real life. Some people are born naturally superior to others. Some are born naturally weaker. Others worked for their power. Others lost their power.Â
If everyone was really supposed to be equal we should all look exactly the same right? Because some people look much better than others XD
Theres a difference between making your character op and making them weak.
Take for example Ali. Hes popular and stronger than most people. Yet pretty sure there's people out there who are peasants that would whoop Ali's ass in a scrap.
Same applies here. A lot of people have the echo. But even some who don't are still strong.
Su 're your character might not be in the level of the WoL and take on Midsgardsormr.Â
But then again your character could probably be more powerful than Thancred in a physical fight.
Point is as long as no one assumes your going to DBZ levels it's fine to make your character stronger or weaker than others. I for one am perfectly ok with people being stronger than Aaron. One because Aaron already has a reputation for being formidable by the public lol and B because I actually LIKE when Aaron loses yet manages to seriously injure his opponent over winning completely.
It's one of the reasons I IC still brag about fighting Caex, Berrod and others at the grindstone.Â
Sure Aaron lost those fights but he did enough damage to the person to earn their respect. I feel that adds more depth than "Oh yeah he beat so and so."
Anyway wrapping up. Long as you and the other person aren't inherently godmode. Be as unique or powerful/weak as you like. But someone in the end will need to win lol
You are absolutely correct. That's why Goliath destroyed David in a one-sided affair.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Zyrusticae - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 05:24 AM)Val Wrote: Then we'll have to agree to disagree. When everyone is a special snowflake, no one is a special snowflakeThere are people who aren't special snowflakes.
They're called NPCs.
RE: Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP') - Warren Castille - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 11:40 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote:(04-15-2015, 05:24 AM)Val Wrote: Then we'll have to agree to disagree. When everyone is a special snowflake, no one is a special snowflakeThere are people who aren't special snowflakes.
They're called NPCs.
But that's simply not true. The Scions are all NPCs. Raubahn and Ilberd? Also NPCs. Gaius? NPC. Bahamut? NPC. Yugiri? NPC.
It's perfectly possible to play someone without needing to borrow the tier of power that the WoL offers.