(06-22-2015, 03:03 PM)Septha Wrote: I did some number crunching today by comparing a level 50 WHM to a level 50 AST (not SCH because I suck at SCH). Turns out that AST does better in long fights due to it's efficiency and it's use of buffs. WHM is still better at burst healing however, so they tend to do much better in short fights.

...

Sure, their shields are good but not as good as SCH from what I've seen. Their buffs do make them very useful however. Personally having them as a secondary healer would depend on the static and what they have player skill wise.

(06-22-2015, 02:26 PM)Melkire Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 02:04 PM)mongi291 Wrote: That pretty much applies for every tank now.
Or, even better, wait until we get crafted accessories and make accessories with both VIT and STR.

I haven't hopped into HW yet but I've been hearing folks in linkshells advocating VIT or maybe even PIE for DRK. The former given that consensus seems to be that it's a squishier tank than PLD or WAR, the latter given its constant need for MP.

(06-22-2015, 12:23 PM)Manari Wrote: I don't have Heavensward yet, but I was concerned about what they did to NIN?  I heard they were going to add a bunch of positional requirements on their moves.  Is this true?  If so, if we really have to juggle positional stuff along with mudras and our combos on top of it, why not just be a monk?  I'm just wondering how bad it is.

(06-22-2015, 12:43 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: Only one other person in this thread even mentioned Machinist. I knew we were unpopular, but damn, that much?

(06-22-2015, 04:09 PM)Leggerless Wrote: Yep. Haven't got into HW just yet, but many sources are ambivalent.

A Machinist is like a ninja; they are good if played well and terrible if played incorrectly. At this stage, there are more of the latter present. Over time, the amount of people who know how to work with Machinist will increase and the class will seem... well, not as shitty. Like ninjas

Edit: Also, if anyone knows the base skill speed of a level 60 ninja right now, I would love to know it.

(06-22-2015, 04:29 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 04:09 PM)Leggerless Wrote: Yep. Haven't got into HW just yet, but many sources are ambivalent.

A Machinist is like a ninja; they are good if played well and terrible if played incorrectly. At this stage, there are more of the latter present. Over time, the amount of people who know how to work with Machinist will increase and the class will seem... well, not as shitty. Like ninjas

Edit: Also, if anyone knows the base skill speed of a level 60 ninja right now, I would love to know it.

NIN was actually OP right off the bat. MCH is the complete opposite situation: they're always terrible, even when played completely 100% optimally.

High MCH DPS runs in the 600-650 range at level 59 and i142. Meanwhile, this BLM is doing 977 DPS at 60 and i159. As you probably well know, those 17 ilvls (and one job level) are NOT going to explain the raw difference in DPS. The job is simply borked.

I think the most obvious problem is that even at our peak burst we're only doing sub-par damage, and then during the rest of the time we're slaves to the RNG as we pray for procs to use our slightly-more-damaging skills... and our skills have really, REALLY bad potencies to begin with. BRD also has low potencies but compensates with lots of crits and the bloodletter proc which completely changes how much damage they output at 50 (though that damage is still obviously sub-par next to melee DPS and caster jobs). Their Wanderer's Minuet skills are also straight-up superior to MCH's Gauss Barrel skills, something I find quite laughable as it's an extremely straightforward comparison and there is no excuse for this discrepancy.

This is not okay:

Black Mage


Machinist

(06-22-2015, 04:35 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: You have no idea what MCH 'played optimally' looks like, and neither does anyone else at this point. So maybe just calm down and a wait a few weeks and see what the numbers end up being.

(06-22-2015, 04:58 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:

(06-22-2015, 04:35 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: You have no idea what MCH 'played optimally' looks like, and neither does anyone else at this point. So maybe just calm down and a wait a few weeks and see what the numbers end up being.

Really?

It's not complicated or even particularly difficult. Even NIN's "optimized" rotation only grants it roughly 30 DPS over the rotations people were doing at the start (assuming the player is competent and not completely neglecting obvious class features like you see in so many Crystal Tower parties *sigh*). This isn't going to MAGICALLY CHANGE just because someone figured out a slightly more optimal way to use the tools they've been given.

I'm tired of people making excuses. Warrior did not magically improve over time, it only improved after Square Enix patched it. Likewise with Dragoon (and BLM, and SMN, etc).

And, look, you have hundreds of very competent players trying all sorts of ideas and combinations with these classes. These things get sussed out in days, not weeks. It's been long enough to know quite a bit more than the general gist of how these classes work. If nothing's been figured out now, nothing is going to change in another month unless Square Enix makes that change.

(06-22-2015, 04:48 PM)Verad Wrote: As a NIN, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing with two separate aggro-dump skills. Somebody give me ideas that don't involve taking the tank's aggro to troll an annoying healer.