Hydaelyn Role-Players
Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Printable Version

+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? (/showthread.php?tid=12533)

Pages: 1 2 3 4

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Shuck - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 03:58 AM)Zedrick Pendragon Wrote: I never called anyone elitist or mean. Close minded but I've welcomed every single opinion. Even if it didn't agree with my own. I have been civil and read everyone ones Opinion, and didn't like Tancred's first post because it was short, and didn't offer insight his second was an opinion on not liking "from another world" aspect. He didn't come at me with credible difficulties, or supportive fact based reasoning as to why it's an ill advised recommendation. It was simply "I just don't like it. So it's ridiculous." His Superman comment is merely a backpedaling statement. Cause clearly if I got the " ol' thumbs up" as you claim Tancred we wouldn't need a debate on right or wrong good idea or bad. I'd simply be.... "Right on go for it."

No...no, no, Tancred isn't at fault for people showing up and telling you "Hey, bruh. Probably don't." People express their own viewpoints all the time, it's not like he's turned this all against you, or...whatever it is you're getting at.

What are you getting at, by the way?

(07-11-2015, 03:58 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: No one. That's why 40% of our RP is magical girl RP and Sailor Moon fanfiic.

My point exactly.

(07-11-2015, 03:59 AM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: Speaking of Vana'diel and other lands, if these lands have no influence on Eorzea at all, why are bits and pieces of Vana'diel mentioned here and there in FFXIV items?  I don't recall where, but I think at one point is was almost theorized that Eorzea was an alternate version of some kind of weird transitioned AU of Vana'diel as a way of connecting them.  Final Fantasy is notorious for alternate versions of a world, world skipping, connecting games, and other similar links between titles in the franchise. 

Because it's a franchise, and they leverage familiarity and references to make fans happy. The Lightning crossover event is pretty prime there. This, however, was highlighted as something special, and we were shown the precise extent of it. It doesn't mean that Cocoon and Eorzea are the same place.

(07-11-2015, 03:58 AM)Zedrick Pendragon Wrote: Make some sense maybe?

Certainly. What can I clarify for you? Also, is english your first language? If not, I can use fewer metaphors. Here, let's try this:

Dimension hopping for no good reason just makes your reader not want to read any further/not want to invest in what you're writing. Is there some gravely important reason, other than your unfamiliarity with the setting, that your story needs a character from another world?

If there isn't, then I would suggest you scrap the idea, google a few things about the setting you'll be playing in, and start from there. If there is, please, share with us.

On physics and back pats: Yo, seeking people who agree with whatever it is you do at all times is brain poison. We only get to be right after being wrong a million and one times, and adjusting to it. We learn through failure, and that means experiencing it in it's entirety, not running to the nearest friendly face and trying to ignore information we don't like.

Let me know if I can be any more clear. I'm being sincere here, I want you to fully understand what I'm attempting to convey.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Paradox - 07-11-2015

Warren basically has the right of it. Some will refuse to Rp outright with you, which is fine for them. Others will accept your character's story gladly, and react accordingly. Still others will have their characters react with 'you're mad', or something such as that, but not refuse RP. It takes all kinds. If someone doesn't like your idea, move on, find someone who does. That's what it comes down to. I won't say no ideas are bad, but this one's fairly par for the course as plausible in this kind of fantasy setting. I've seen actual really bad ideas, oh gods help me. D:

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Warren Castille - 07-11-2015

I guess what I'm trying to point out, and am failing to do so:

Your FFXI OC = My Marvel Comics OC = Someone's WWE OC = Someone's FFXIII OC = Someone's GoT OC = Someone RPing Dave Mustaine = Someone's Akira OC = Someone's DBZ OC = Someone's Kingdom Hearts OC.

As soon as you go "why can't I RP from another world?" you open up every single other world ever, across all of time/space.



...don't do that.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Shuck - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 04:11 AM)Arklonn Sargonnai Wrote: Warren basically has the right of it. Some will refuse to Rp outright with you, which is fine for them. Others will accept your character's story gladly, and react accordingly. Still others will have their characters react with 'you're mad', or something such as that, but not refuse RP. It takes all kinds. If someone doesn't like your idea, move on, find someone who does. That's what it comes down to. I won't say no ideas are bad, but this one's fairly par for the course as plausible in this kind of fantasy setting. I've seen actual really bad ideas, oh gods help me. D:

Really? You wouldn't throw in a "maybe try to understand a differing perspective in order to get a better handle on what might not work with your writing"? Not at all? Not even for the benefit of gradually improving in ability regarding a hobby you enjoy?

Also, this being "par for the course" (as it...isn't. It really isn't.) doesn't mean it's a good idea. Or that it's plausible. Given that the previous crossovers have been big, crazy events where everyone in the world knew about it, and was confused.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Uther - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 03:58 AM)Zedrick Pendragon Wrote: I never called anyone elitist or mean. Close minded but I've welcomed every single opinion. Even if it didn't agree with my own. I have been civil and read everyone ones Opinion, and didn't like Tancred's first post because it was short, and didn't offer insight his second was an opinion on not liking "from another world" aspect. He didn't come at me with credible difficulties, or supportive fact based reasoning as to why it's an ill advised recommendation. It was simply "I just don't like it. So it's ridiculous." His Superman comment is merely a backpedaling statement. Cause clearly if I got the " ol' thumbs up" as you claim Tancred we wouldn't need a debate on right or wrong good idea or bad. I'd simply be.... "Right on go for it."

You called me a close-minded buffoon. You don't really get to say you welcomed everyone's opinion when you jumped on me for disagreeing with you. That's not how this works. The problem with telling people these things on the internet is that everything you've said is still here to scroll up to.

Do I like it? No. I still think it is a terrible, terrible idea and I'll never like it. So there goes "merely backpedaling."

All I'm saying with the Superman argument, is that I can't stop you and I'm not worried about your personal enjoyment so do whatever you want. You paid for this game. It is yours to play as you choose.

I don't know why you're trying to make me your enemy for disagreeing with you. Or why, given the implied audience of the quoted post, you're trying to ridicule me in front of the rest of the thread.

And while we're at it, since I made that comment about how everyone can scroll up earlier, might as well be fair: Yes, I spoke in generalizations. Yes, I could've been more polite. But I needed to adequately get my opinion across without another pampering "It'll be hard!" response. And from my experience (MAYBE NOT YOURS HURHUR) those generalizations are fairly accurate.

Do what you want. Play the game how you want. But if you were going to play the game how you wanted to begin with anyway and you think I'm close minded for my opinion, why did you even put up this thread to begin with?

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Zedrick Pendragon - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 04:07 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(07-11-2015, 03:59 AM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote:
(07-11-2015, 03:50 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(07-11-2015, 02:16 AM)Zedrick Pendragon Wrote: Anyone else have any thoughts on this subject?

If you can rationalize being a stranger in a strange land with no history, no backstory, and no attachment to the XIV story then nothing is stopping you.

THESE ARE THINGS YOU SHOULDN'T IGNORE THOUGH. Galka are NOT Roegadyan, and Vana'diel is NOT Eorzea.

There's nothing to stop you from being a legacy-character, but I would ask what purpose being one would serve? Vana'diel and its history would just isolate you more from general RP.

The thing is that he doesn't want to ignore those things.  He wants his character to experience learning about these things from an IC perspective.  It actually offers up a lot of play for those who are willing to see his character as strange, odd, or otherwise queer because of his opinions, views, and beliefs on the world, or on the flip side of that, because he should know things, and instead knows so little.  That puts out a lot of starting points for RP and actually gives a lot of plot hooks that people could get into.  Hell, just generalized RP, walk-ups with a lot of 'Hi, how are ya' could be interesting if his character isn't familiar with local customs. 

Speaking of Vana'diel and other lands, if these lands have no influence on Eorzea at all, why are bits and pieces of Vana'diel mentioned here and there in FFXIV items?  I don't recall where, but I think at one point is was almost theorized that Eorzea was an alternate version of some kind of weird transitioned AU of Vana'diel as a way of connecting them.  Final Fantasy is notorious for alternate versions of a world, world skipping, connecting games, and other similar links between titles in the franchise. 

It hits a point where the argument begins to boil down to "Yes, you can do this, and you can even make this seem plausible and interesting, but it means I'll have to make more effort to figure out how my character would react to someone being so different, so don't do it so I don't have to try and interact with you."

Allow me to begin by saying you're completely correct: There's nothing wrong (and in some respects, you're benefitted) with being an off-worlder.

You are, of course, completely ignorant of the world you're roleplaying in. That's not necessarily bad! Some folks are patient enough to put up with someone showing up and not knowing any better. Some folks, of course, are also liable to not give a single fuck as to your world-hopping backstory. None of the XI lore carries over in an overt way - The races aren't the same, the world isn't the same, and everything you know is wrong.

As mentioned earlier, you FFXI character is as-believable as someone RPing Captain America or Jon Snow in FFXIV. They know nothing, ain't from around here and don't know better.

No one will stop you from playing such a character, but you might find some folks unwilling to RP with you. These aren't the same thing, after all.
See people keep saying that it's no different then RPing as Captain America, or Jon Snow when that is completely wrong.

If Captain America saw a Chocobo he'd be like "HOLY HELL, THAT'S A BIG CHICKEN." There are Chocobo's in Final Fantasy XI, just like there is a Garuda, Shiva, Titan. These things translate into Familiarity for a Character like mine. Just like the Job classes, Moogles' and Airship. These are all things this Character would perceive as relatively familiar. The setting is different.

Galka are not Rogaedyn, but they share Familiar characteristics. Even though there's a stranger world in front of him there's a familiarity to it that wouldn't completely through the Eorzean inhabitants for a loop. They might think "HOLY CRAP WHY IS HE TRYING TO SHAKE TITAN'S HAND!!!" Cause in XI Titan was summon able and not a Primal. RPing as Cap or Superman or Jon Snow isn't the same. There would be ALOT my character doesn't understand.... But there's still things that would be Familiar to him, unlike Cap, or Jon Snow.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Sin - 07-11-2015

I don't understand this thread.

Are you telling us that you don't understand why people don't like and won't rp with your concept?

Or are you asking us to explain why people don't like and won't rp with your concept?

If the first one, yeah, it's tough. Good luck trying to find people out there who think that's cool and interesting like you do. They're out there, you're just going to have to do a deeper search and be patient.

If you're asking, then Shuck's responses have been pretty spot on, and make quite a bit of sense to me. Read them over a couple times or ask him questions about it and maybe he or someone else can explain, but it's pretty simple.

A good portion of roleplayers enjoy well-written characters. Cross-world travelers in a setting where cross-world traveling is not common screams poorly written character.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Warren Castille - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 04:16 AM)Shuck Wrote: Really? You wouldn't throw in a "maybe try to understand a differing perspective in order to get a better handle on what might not work with your writing"? Not at all? Not even for the benefit of gradually improving in ability regarding a hobby you enjoy?

Please make time to RP with my keyblade dualwielding Saiyan who is the child of Goku and Rinoa, come into this world via a portal opening by Sephiroth.

It's as plausible as anything else.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Paradox - 07-11-2015

Quote:Dimension hopping for no good reason just makes your reader not want to read any further/not want to invest in what you're writing. Is there some gravely important reason, other than your unfamiliarity with the setting, that your story needs a character from another world?



My major problem with this response is basically that the one who decides it's a good reason is the player themselves. There is no one specific 'reader' to speak of in a roleplay community, so again this is a sweeping generalization that doesn't really apply to everyone. It may be a gravely important reason to the player of that character. Whether anyone else agrees it is or not is on them, but it's not up to them to judge its importance, just their reaction to it. We're talking about varied interactions with multiple individuals, not some dime store novel.



Quote:Really? You wouldn't throw in a "maybe try to understand a differing perspective in order to get a better handle on what might not work with your writing"? Not at all? Not even for the benefit of gradually improving in ability regarding a hobby you enjoy?



It is neither my duty nor my responsibility to impress upon others anything. The OP asked a question, and I gave the responses I thought that supported his idea from what I've seen within the game and with what I know about the universe itself. Considering that every response you've given at this juncture has absolutely no intent on having a different perspective other than 'this is bad, don't do it', I honestly also don't see how you could speak on trying to make anyone have said different perspective, on what might work or otherwise.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Dis - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 04:07 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Allow me to begin by saying you're completely correct: There's nothing wrong (and in some respects, you're benefitted) with being an off-worlder.

You are, of course, completely ignorant of the world you're roleplaying in. That's not necessarily bad! Some folks are patient enough to put up with someone showing up and not knowing any better. Some folks, of course, are also liable to not give a single fuck as to your world-hopping backstory. None of the XI lore carries over in an overt way - The races aren't the same, the world isn't the same, and everything you know is wrong.

As mentioned earlier, you FFXI character is as-believable as someone RPing Captain America or Jon Snow in FFXIV. They know nothing, ain't from around here and don't know better.

No one will stop you from playing such a character, but you might find some folks unwilling to RP with you. These aren't the same thing, after all.

I think there's a large difference in someone from a similar world (XI and XIV) and someone from a world so drastically different (Earth, or whatever the GoT world is called, I don't watch it). 

I never played XI personally, so I can't attest to how similar they are, but the races are in some aspects similar and yet different. There'd be a much smaller period of adjustment, I would think, in being someone from XI as opposed to someone from Earth, for example.  I don't think there's a specific problem with pulling in someone from a similar Final Fantasy world if you can find a reasonably plausible method of getting them here.  For Glioca, for example in the world she was last on, died.  She died and went into the Void (that world had a void similar to XIV's concept of it), her host died, she took over her host after being spit out of the Void, and poof! Eorzean with mixed memories (not a zombie)!

You could technically play Captain America, but that's a more extreme example of someone playing a world-traveling character.  In this instance, we're talking about things that are roughly aligned along the same general axis.  A fantasy world with similar and in some cases shared elements (Moogles, Chocobo, Cactaur, similar races, similar foods in some instances, etc).  Another Final Fantasy world.  This makes things much simpler as opposed to much more difficult. 

I have plenty of characters I'd love to make into characters here, and in those cases, I'd rewrite their history to make them be from XIV and have similar backstory elements, rather than porting them wholesale into the world.  But there are some characters where that kind of rewrite doesn't feel right, or like it does that particular character justice. 

Allowing someone to play someone from a similar world doesn't mean we have to accept someone from all different types of worlds.  And for the record, if someone played a WWE character in XIV, I imagine them becoming a showmanship gladiator in Ul'dah pretty damn fast, I'm just sayin'. 

The point is that we can't technically allow someone to be anything.  They have the right to RP what they want.  All we can do is point them in the right direction of people who are willing to role-play with that type of character, and ourselves say 'I respect this idea, but I don't want to interact with that type of character, I'm sorry.'  And that's not what we're doing in this thread.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Warren Castille - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 04:22 AM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: I think there's a large difference in someone from a similar world (XI and XIV) and someone from a world so drastically different (Earth, or whatever the GoT world is called, I don't watch it). 

I never played XI personally, so I can't attest to how similar they are, but the races are in some aspects similar and yet different.

As someone who did play XI, a lot, I can go on record as saying Vana'diel has as much in common with Eorzea as <insert whatever fantasy world you want right here>.

Aside from the races looking sort of similar, there's nothing at all that repeats from XI to XIV. That's why I was pointing out that XI is as admissible as Marvel and WWE and DC and Whatever are.

Someone from XI might have seen a Chocobo, but someone from Middle Earth might be more familiar with giant chickens too. It doesn't work too great when you get down to it.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - OttoVann - 07-11-2015

The flip-side to the shitpost arguments being thrown around about keySaiyans, is that to me, there is something wrong with a dogged pursuit of playing the mundane, and being mad when everyone also ins't mundane alongside you. The RPC has a big problem with this and its general "meta". Be mundane, OR ELSE you get this thread in so many words.

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Paradox - 07-11-2015

Quote:XI is as admissible as Marvel and WWE and DC and Whatever are.



Personally I'd find it kind of awesome in its own way if someone was doing a gladiator arena RP, and SCSA walked out onto the sands, with Good ol' JR announcing at ringside. Heh. Would I take it seriously? No, no. But damn it'd be fun to watch.


Thinking about it, there was someone on Balmung named Stone'Cold Steve'Austin at one point I think, saw him /sh. But that's really not on topic.


RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Zedrick Pendragon - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 04:16 AM)Tancred Wrote:
(07-11-2015, 03:58 AM)Zedrick Pendragon Wrote: I never called anyone elitist or mean. Close minded but I've welcomed every single opinion. Even if it didn't agree with my own. I have been civil and read everyone ones Opinion, and didn't like Tancred's first post because it was short, and didn't offer insight his second was an opinion on not liking "from another world" aspect. He didn't come at me with credible difficulties, or supportive fact based reasoning as to why it's an ill advised recommendation. It was simply "I just don't like it. So it's ridiculous." His Superman comment is merely a backpedaling statement. Cause clearly if I got the " ol' thumbs up" as you claim Tancred we wouldn't need a debate on right or wrong good idea or bad. I'd simply be.... "Right on go for it."

You called me a close-minded buffoon. You don't really get to say you welcomed everyone's opinion when you jumped on me for disagreeing with you. That's not how this works. The problem with telling people these things on the internet is that everything you've said is still here to scroll up to.

Do I like it? No. I still think it is a terrible, terrible idea and I'll never like it. So there goes "merely backpedaling."

All I'm saying with the Superman argument, is that I can't stop you and I'm not worried about your personal enjoyment so do whatever you want. You paid for this game. It is yours to play as you choose.

I don't know why you're trying to make me your enemy for disagreeing with you. Or why, given the implied audience of the quoted post, you're trying to ridicule me in front of the rest of the thread.

And while we're at it, since I made that comment about how everyone can scroll up earlier, might as well be fair: Yes, I spoke in generalizations. Yes, I could've been more polite. But I needed to adequately get my opinion across without another pampering "It'll be hard!" response. And from my experience (MAYBE NOT YOURS HURHUR) those generalizations are fairly accurate.

Do what you want. Play the game how you want. But if you were going to play the game how you wanted to begin with anyway and you think I'm close minded for my opinion, why did you even put up this thread to begin with?
As mush as you try to argue that "I don't like it" is a credible reason for posting an opinion you are a troll. I didn't ask for babying, I'm clearly stating plausibility of my Character coming from FFXI and how it's not so far fetched as everyone makes it seem.

Everyone else is blowing it out of proportion stating the reason's why I should is because it's stupid. I want a good reason as to why a back story like this isn't Plausible. Which none of they Nay Sayers have been able to achieve. I'm not looking to be special, or be the time travelling world hopping hero. Understand that his displacement where a sheer acident and he's just a displaced man trying to figure out where, when and how of it all. To see if there's any possibility of getting home.

The fact that no one can prove to me why this isn't Plausible beyond the "It's two different games" and the "It's just plain dumb" Doesn't deter me from my course. In fact it merely strength's my resolve that this is a plausible and interesting storyline. There are very striking similarities between both games that would allow for this to be possible and not overtly out of place. So again why wouldn't this back story work?

RE: Why can't my Character be from FFXI? - Sin - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 04:22 AM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: The point is that we can't technically allow someone to be anything.  They have the right to RP what they want.  All we can do is point them in the right direction of people who are willing to role-play with that type of character, and ourselves say 'I respect this idea, but I don't want to interact with that type of character, I'm sorry.'  And that's not what we're doing in this thread.

Na, that's not all we can do.

Particularly not in a thread where the OP asked us for thoughts. In a thread where the OP continually remarks that he doesn't understand why people don't want to rp out his concept or why he's being denied access to certain FC's because of it.

In this case, we can do something else... we can inform the OP as to the reason for why some people are going to shy away from that concept.

If the OP seeks genuine understanding then this method is very practical, and effective.