(12-23-2013, 03:00 PM)ansemaru Wrote: From an out-of-universe perspective: Seeker gender politics are kind of messed up from what we've seen of them, and things are skewed in favor of dude Seekers. It's also what we're given to work with in terms of canon lore. The one in-game example of a Nunh is decidedly the leader of his tribe politically and culturally, and though his position isn't secure and has as much to do with respect from his followers as it does with his having defeated the previous Nunh, he's still living in what appears to be for all intents and purposes a society where the Nunh is the leader and the only ones who have a shot at being the leader are the Tias.

In-character, we've got complete freedom to either accept or challenge the norms of Seeker (and Keeper) society, and that'd probably be pretty interesting. There's a lot of room for conflict between the matriarchal Keepers and the patriarchal Seekers, considering most raised in the respective societies would have an opinion about which group is in the right in terms of how things are run. It'd be especially interesting for characters who come from a Seeker parent and a Keeper parent! For that matter, are there Miqo'te who defect from their tribe to live with the other one, rather than take to the city and abandon traditional societal norms? Seeker women who want a shot at authority and seek to join up with Keeper clans, or Keeper men who take up the 'Tia' name and try to challenge a Nunh so they can be in charge of their own tribe?

And like has been said, there is a lot of space to play Nunhs in various ways. U'odh is the one canon example, and he's very much a standard tribal patriarch figure. That's an option. If you feel inclined, you could play a Nunh who took his position because he wants to have kids, or because he wants an excuse to sleep around and flaunt it to others. You could play a Nunh who doesn't care at all for the breeding bit of his role, and just wants to improve things for his tribe by being a good leader- or even views siring children as a distasteful duty, rather than a benefit of being a Nunh. You could play a Nunh from a Seeker tribe where the women hold the real power, and the Nunh is just the fellow they decided was the best option to have kids with when the time comes. You can play it as creepy or non-creepy as you want to, in the end. It's just important to keep in mind that flagging yourself in such a position is going to invite opinions, and the way you RP a Nunh is going to invite opinions as well. If you play a womanizer or a scumbag Nunh, people will react like they typically do to figures of authority who are scumbags or womanizers. There are going to be people who are critical of the entire system on which Seeker society operates. It's not your job to convince them that Seeker society is awesome and great and they should love it, but you can try if you feel compelled. Conflict breeds interesting RP.

(12-23-2013, 05:51 PM)Jomoru Wrote: You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

(12-23-2013, 07:03 PM)Naunet Wrote:

(12-23-2013, 05:51 PM)Jomoru Wrote: You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

(12-23-2013, 08:01 PM)MizoreYukii Wrote: I understood that a Nunh sired children with many women, but I didn't know why they were required to. A simple "strong male chosen by the females to breed strong children" (...)

(12-23-2013, 08:30 PM)Ckayah Tia Wrote: I don't think anyone's taking whacks at you, Mizore. I think largely the issue is that Miqo'te obviously have a pretty distinct culture from the rest of Eorzea, but there is very little canon information about what that culture is outside of basic family structure.

(12-23-2013, 07:50 PM)Jomoru Wrote:

(12-23-2013, 07:03 PM)Naunet Wrote:

(12-23-2013, 05:51 PM)Jomoru Wrote: You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

I am not talking about monogamy. I am talking about the real power of the position. Lack of holding official or even unofficial leadership of the grouping doesn't change the fact that he has power over determining the future generation. 

This can easily lead to all sorts of horrific abuses. Saying "Well he doesn't officially lead the tribe" doesn't matter then.

(12-23-2013, 08:39 PM)Naihir Wrote:

(12-23-2013, 08:30 PM)Ckayah Tia Wrote: I don't think anyone's taking whacks at you, Mizore. I think largely the issue is that Miqo'te obviously have a pretty distinct culture from the rest of Eorzea, but there is very little canon information about what that culture is outside of basic family structure.

This is correct. I Just wanted people who are new, and possibly reading the thread that Nunhs are not pimps at all. They do not force any female to do as they wish. The structure of the soceity is all based off of favour. I get irritated because people cannot put aside their own personal cultural views to even accept the terms of FFXIV offical lore. So they slander it and insult those who do roleplay it as it was written.

yes - a lot is left in the dark so a lot of common courtesy head cannon needs to be involved but if we look at human socities especially those of the pacific islands we can find similar cultural structures. Its not an alien society - people need to stop treating it as something vile because it clearly isn't.

TLDR version:
Yo dawg, go take a Anthropology 101 paper! Human variety! cultural difference, Yo, peace G!

(12-23-2013, 08:39 PM)Naihir Wrote: Edit:
Also, miqo'te would go extinct without this social structure as the ratio to males and females is VERY off. I think it is 1:15, if I counted the NPCs in forgotten springs correctly.

(12-23-2013, 09:52 PM)Knahli Wrote: Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

(12-23-2013, 10:10 PM)MizoreYukii Wrote:

(12-23-2013, 09:52 PM)K Wrote: Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

I see it now, but it certainly felt that way. The purpose of my asking for lore is to avoid any misleading information by word of mouth, as well as a chance to finally create my character, as I've felt I've hit a wall with her until I could gather more information.

But I can see how my joke started the debate. I haven't been on the forums for months as I always forgot to get on, and I haven't been focusing on playing FF until now, but I bet if I had gotten on I would have known about the debate and either worded the joke better or avoid it altogether. >_< I just wanted to understand the race better since they don't provide much in game or on the main website. That, or I missed it somehow?

Either way, the lore and insight in this thread will help me create my character better. I'm new to RP and FF in general, so I want to make her the best way I can without looking like an idiot. Or insulting anyone. o_o

(12-23-2013, 10:18 PM)Knahli Wrote:

(12-23-2013, 10:10 PM)MizoreYukii Wrote:

(12-23-2013, 09:52 PM)K Wrote: Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

I see it now, but it certainly felt that way. The purpose of my asking for lore is to avoid any misleading information by word of mouth, as well as a chance to finally create my character, as I've felt I've hit a wall with her until I could gather more information.

But I can see how my joke started the debate. I haven't been on the forums for months as I always forgot to get on, and I haven't been focusing on playing FF until now, but I bet if I had gotten on I would have known about the debate and either worded the joke better or avoid it altogether. >_< I just wanted to understand the race better since they don't provide much in game or on the main website. That, or I missed it somehow?

Either way, the lore and insight in this thread will help me create my character better. I'm new to RP and FF in general, so I want to make her the best way I can without looking like an idiot. Or insulting anyone. o_o

The debate would have happened either way, I'm sure. No need to worry yourself over it ^^ ;  People are just afraid to let those opinions slip by for the previously mentioned reasons(I say opinion since it was unclear if you were joking... as is the case with sensitive topics, ahah).

In any case, there's no glorified lore that you must adhere to. You don't need to adhere to any for that matter. If you choose a Seeker/Keeper name though then just be sure to find some connection as to why your character followed tribal naming conventions and you're sorted. Anything else is totally up to you.

(12-23-2013, 10:23 PM)MizoreYukii Wrote: And it wasn't an opinion. I knew I didn't word what I said properly, but I thought it didn't matter.