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+--- Thread: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified (/showthread.php?tid=7076)
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Elisea Renyven - 05-03-2014
One thing I can point out. People seem to think they have to fly solo. You put what you get into an FC and game. If you want something, you work as a team to get it. In the old days of UO, DAOC, etc you had to learn to work as a team, survive as a team. It's because of those days I'm sad many missed out on. If you want to strive for greatness, you got to work together. There are some who'd rather not help or do things as a team, that's great. But to me an MMO is a team sport, a team game, you have your social aspects, RP, and PVE. To acquire goals, you gotta do it as a team. I think Square really drives it home that team is important. You can fly solo but its not as fun.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - synaesthetic - 05-03-2014
What does group content have to do with personal housing? That's solo content. They're two completely separate entities.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Elisea Renyven - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 03:57 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: What does group content have to do with personal housing? That's solo content. They're two completely separate entities.
I'm not going to start an argument over it, ma'am. Groups can help each other raise money for personal housing. Or you can make 2 million in no time solo. There are options, like this game has tons of options. While its not perfect, its better than most mmos out there.
Anyway, going to bow out of this thread as its turning too negative and don't like seeing arguments.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - synaesthetic - 05-03-2014
That makes no sense at all, though. If you have one person raising money you have a goal of 850,000. If you have two, then you have a goal of twice that... which means that the grinding time the two of you have to spend is... exactly the same.
Unless the other person doesn't have any interest in having a house and is totally okay with giving you all their gil... unlikely to say the least.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - allgivenover - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 03:53 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: Classy.
You whiteknights do realize that most of us who complain a lot do so because we're unwilling to accept a second-rate experience. If you just take everything a company--which exists purely to generate profit by the way--does or says as the best thing since sliced bread, they're going to keep giving you less and less until they find a point where you won't tolerate less anymore.
Then they'll hover right above that tolerance threshold.
Square's goal with FFXIV, like any MMO developer, is to spend the least amount of money possible while making the most amount of money possible. That means they spend a considerable amount of effort trying to determine the bare minimum of content and fluff that the players will still pay for.
Ya'll are making this real fuckin' easy on them.
Be a discerning consumer. Be picky as hell. Don't ever be satisfied. Be as hard to please as possible.
Whiteknights kill games.
You're absolutely right, that's why you should direct your complaint posts here where your opinion might have an effect on the product you enjoy(?).
I like A Realm Reborn, it isn't a perfect game, but I like it. I come here to read about RP (and story posts), if I wanted to read about how terrible each addition to the game allegedly is I'd go to the official forums where such whining about not having everything handed to the players simply because they pay a monthly sub can be found in abundance. All of your griping here does nothing to change the game and only serves to annoy myself and others.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Zhavi - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 03:53 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: Classy.
You whiteknights do realize that most of us who complain a lot do so because we're unwilling to accept a second-rate experience. If you just take everything a company--which exists purely to generate profit by the way--does or says as the best thing since sliced bread, they're going to keep giving you less and less until they find a point where you won't tolerate less anymore.
Then they'll hover right above that tolerance threshold.
Square's goal with FFXIV, like any MMO developer, is to spend the least amount of money possible while making the most amount of money possible. That means they spend a considerable amount of effort trying to determine the bare minimum of content and fluff that the players will still pay for.
Ya'll are making this real fuckin' easy on them.
Be a discerning consumer. Be picky as hell. Don't ever be satisfied. Be as hard to please as possible.
Whiteknights kill games.
While I have points I agree and disagree with on both sides of the fence here, this reminded me of something -- namely, beta for FFXIV 1.0. At the end of the beta I can remember people begging square to not let it go live as it was. There were tons of posts with well thought out complaints, listing alternatives, listing workarounds, giving examples as to why certain things wouldn't work well once it went live. The whole time there were people who told them that it wasn't bad, to not discuss what they didn't like, that they weren't being constructive. It was because of Square's responses (and, in some cases, total lack of response) to those posts that I held off from preordering the game. I wanted to see if they would change things once it went live. I held out hope that, you know, it was beta and things would change.
Aaaaand it didn't. Reviews and commentary from friends proved to me that the core things that had made the game not as fun as I wanted (looking back I don't remember a whole lot. . .but I do remember the menu being really unnecessarily convoluted). So I didn't buy the game. I stayed way the hell away from it.
There is a line between constructive and non-constructive posting, but pretty much . . .what's wrong with pointing out ways of doing things that you don't like? As long as it doesn't devolve into just saying 'this sucks, square sucks, the whole game sucks,' what's wrong with wanting to share your disappointment with something? I mean, yeah, when you're enthusiastic about something it's kind of a let down to see someone who is upset about it, but is unhappiness with something any less a legitimate feeling to have then happiness?
I mean, if it's just a dislike of the way someone phrases something, then just say that. But nicely. Even unhappy people respond to politeness (case in point: everyone says there's major griefing in LoL, but 9 times out of 10 in my games it was diffuseable with humor or by just making the person feel like their opinion mattered).
In any case, whether or not I'll be able to pay for housing isn't too make or break for me. In actuality, seeing if people will let me have Zhi infect their characters' homes with fleas or lice is becoming rather a pleasing prospect. Muahahahaha.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Naunet - 05-03-2014
Not sure I should post again at risk of offending others' sensibilities (...).
The price actually doesn't bother me so much as the level 50 requirement. Gil I can get and transfer to RP alts when necessary. Levels... not so much. At least on rp alts I don't really feel the loss of glamour too much because I just use them for rp, so I can just swap out gear sets instead of costuming (even though I'm super annoyed at the gear type and ilvl restrictions *grumble*). But being completely blocked from what would be a fun, rp-related investment... is seriously disappointing. I want to be able to enjoy the game's fluff content as much as I enjoy running dungeons with my friends... I don't think that's too much to ask.
Mod note: Excised the text in "(...)" as it references posts removed from the thread.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Zhavi - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 04:47 PM)Naunet Wrote: Not sure I should post again at risk of offending others' sensibilities (though I really would appreciate it if a mod would edit those earlier posts, because they honestly really hurt my feelings...).
The price actually doesn't bother me so much as the level 50 requirement. Gil I can get and transfer to RP alts when necessary. Levels... not so much. At least on rp alts I don't really feel the loss of glamour too much because I just use them for rp, so I can just swap out gear sets instead of costuming (even though I'm super annoyed at the gear type and ilvl restrictions *grumble*). But being completely blocked from what would be a fun, rp-related investment... is seriously disappointing. I want to be able to enjoy the game's fluff content as much as I enjoy running dungeons with my friends... I don't think that's too much to ask.
I wonder if the reason they have that on there is to add specific end-game value to the game? I suppose they might look at it from a 'if new players are using this from level 10 onwards, they might be tired of it by the time they hit 50, and therefore will stop playing faster' perspective. Especially if they're still running the game with the preference that people not play alts, even if that means they're not getting a couple extra dollars per month.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Twinflame - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 04:58 PM)Zhavi Wrote:(05-03-2014, 04:47 PM)Naunet Wrote: Not sure I should post again at risk of offending others' sensibilities (though I really would appreciate it if a mod would edit those earlier posts, because they honestly really hurt my feelings...).
The price actually doesn't bother me so much as the level 50 requirement. Gil I can get and transfer to RP alts when necessary. Levels... not so much. At least on rp alts I don't really feel the loss of glamour too much because I just use them for rp, so I can just swap out gear sets instead of costuming (even though I'm super annoyed at the gear type and ilvl restrictions *grumble*). But being completely blocked from what would be a fun, rp-related investment... is seriously disappointing. I want to be able to enjoy the game's fluff content as much as I enjoy running dungeons with my friends... I don't think that's too much to ask.
I wonder if the reason they have that on there is to add specific end-game value to the game? Â I suppose they might look at it from a 'if new players are using this from level 10 onwards, they might be tired of it by the time they hit 50, and therefore will stop playing faster' perspective. Â Especially if they're still running the game with the preference that people not play alts, even if that means they're not getting a couple extra dollars per month.
From my perspective it's probably more that they don't want everyone to have a house. Remember that Yoshi was concerned that if he lowered the price on FC Housing, all the FCs might actually buy houses? Like, the content might actually get used? I think he's worried about server space and being able to run enough instances of the housing neighborhoods in order for everyone to have their own houses. Much less everyone have houses on their alts.
I think that this problem, just like so many others the game has, goes back to not investing in servers of sufficient number, power and size.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Naunet - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 04:58 PM)Zhavi Wrote: I wonder if the reason they have that on there is to add specific end-game value to the game? Â I suppose they might look at it from a 'if new players are using this from level 10 onwards, they might be tired of it by the time they hit 50, and therefore will stop playing faster' perspective. Â Especially if they're still running the game with the preference that people not play alts, even if that means they're not getting a couple extra dollars per month.
You can prevent people from getting "tired of it" by baking the experience into the entire game. Put in various housing items and upgrades for people to work for as they level (e.g. from various GC ranks, from completing certain side quests or particularly momentous story turns, as themed drops from dungeons, rewards for achievements) and in endgame (e.g.... everything I listed prior, plus stuff from all the endgame content we already have). That way it is a constantly evolving experience, and there are constantly new stretch goals to work towards. Suddenly the feature becomes fun and engaging and long-lived rather than, "Well I'll grind to 50 and grind X amount of gold and then I'm pretty much done."
As for the alt thing, I remain baffled as to why they would prefer people pay them less money every month.
(05-03-2014, 05:05 PM)Twinflame Wrote: I think that this problem, just like so many others the game has, goes back to not investing in servers of sufficient number, power and size.
This is likely the crux of it, yes.
Mod note: Deleted the last paragraph because it references excised posts.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Zhavi - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 05:05 PM)Twinflame Wrote: From my perspective it's probably more that they don't want everyone to have a house. Remember that Yoshi was concerned that if he lowered the price on FC Housing, all the FCs might actually buy houses? Like, the content might actually get used? I think he's worried about server space and being able to run enough instances of the housing neighborhoods in order for everyone to have their own houses. Much less everyone have houses on their alts.
I think that this problem, just like so many others the game has, goes back to not investing in servers of sufficient number, power and size.
Oh, eesh, I didn't actually know that. I errr. . .don't really pay much attention to what the developers say, overall. I just picked up the game a few months ago, too. Still! That's an interesting point and makes a lot of sense. If only I could be a fly on the wall. . .
(05-03-2014, 05:12 PM)Naunet Wrote: You can prevent people from getting "tired of it" by baking the experience into the entire game. Put in various housing items and upgrades for people to work for as they level (e.g. from various GC ranks, from completing certain side quests or particularly momentous story turns, as themed drops from dungeons, rewards for achievements) and in endgame (e.g.... everything I listed prior, plus stuff from all the endgame content we already have). That way it is a constantly evolving experience, and there are constantly new stretch goals to work towards. Suddenly the feature becomes fun and engaging and long-lived rather than, "Well I'll grind to 50 and grind X amount of gold and then I'm pretty much done."
Even assuming this is a problem after Twinflame's post (his really does make a lot of sense to me, but then again I really know almost nothing about development), it maybe could be a matter of the content team being inefficient or slow to the point that they don't have enough of that extra stuff ready for the initial launch? In the games I've played it does seem like initially (for things added on after the release of the game) there will be a high barrier to entry that gradually gets reduced over time as the game ages and other stuff is added.
It's kinda like the whole thing with Doublefine. You know, they asked for x amount of money, got more than they needed, decided to upgrade the game. Several months later they run out of money, eventually leading to them needing to split the game in two to help ensure that they could even finish the thing. Watching the pieces of the documentary (which I still need to finish) was certainly very interesting from that perspective, with all of their teams, where they spent their time (and how much time certain stages took) and costs and whatnot.
As for the alts -- yeah, I couldn't tell you. I have absolutely no insight into what their internal goals are and where they're looking to make longterm profits. I just like to think that there must be a reason, because in times like these I would just prefer to be an ignorant optimist -- picking my battles of despairing of what looks like stupidity from an outside perspective, as it were.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - FreelanceWizard - 05-03-2014
Okay. The personal attacks stop, right now.
I have removed from this thread (not deleted, mind you, but put elsewhere; my policy is not to delete things -- like it or not, that's what it is) the off-topic posts. I believe I've preserved most of the context of the thread; note that I largely don't edit individual posts unless there's a legal matter, so if your entire post got excised and you've lost context, I apologize.
Consider this the final warning for this thread. I will begin suspending posting privileges for those who continue to make personal attacks here. Like someone's opinions or not, like someone's overall stance on the game or not, but it is not necessary or acceptable to rip into people personally about that.
As a side note, the mods are not on this site 24/7/365. We do not have a paid community team and mod staff monitoring every single thread every single minute. Please remember that we are volunteers and it takes some time for us to see a problem, determine the response, and react accordingly. It's not helpful to put snide commentary in the comment field about the quality of moderation when you report posts, and doing that itself can be grounds for a warning, suspension, or ban.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - ArmachiA - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 03:53 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: Classy.
You whiteknights do realize that most of us who complain a lot do so because we're unwilling to accept a second-rate experience. If you just take everything a company--which exists purely to generate profit by the way--does or says as the best thing since sliced bread, they're going to keep giving you less and less until they find a point where you won't tolerate less anymore.
Ya'll are making this real fuckin' easy on them.
Whiteknights kill games.
There's no need for this, No one is white knighting. Hostility doesn't breed healthy discussion.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Kailia - 05-03-2014
(05-03-2014, 05:48 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:(05-03-2014, 03:53 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: Classy.
You whiteknights do realize that most of us who complain a lot do so because we're unwilling to accept a second-rate experience. If you just take everything a company--which exists purely to generate profit by the way--does or says as the best thing since sliced bread, they're going to keep giving you less and less until they find a point where you won't tolerate less anymore.
Ya'll are making this real fuckin' easy on them.
Whiteknights kill games.
There's no need for this, No one is white knighting. Hostility doesn't breed healthy discussion.
I'm actually inclined to agree. I've been keeping my tone pretty respectful. I agree with SE adding obstacles to overcome to get a rather cool reward at the end. But being called a whiteknight for it, came off as rude.
RE: Peronal Housing costs potentially specified - Maril - 05-03-2014
What I do for my FC, and have been doing ever since we started saving up for a FC house, is to - along with other fc members who're interested in the moneymaking aspect of the game - to collect information about what things are good to grind right now, down to the point where I'd time how much I got from a certain type of mob-farm and figure out what it sold for afterwards. It's helped a lot of my members a lot to know exactly when and where they should go for something, to make a relatively quick profit out of the "I've 30 minutes and nothing to do" situations. I'd encourage other FC leaders with time to spare to do the same, because even though it wont get people to instantly have all of the gil ever, if you get them used to doing a little every day it'll land them in a better position for when the darn thing actually launches.Â
I do not consider making money in XIV to be difficult, but rather it's gated by how much time you put into it. Which sort of is the case for anything in an mmorpg, the more you do something the better you get at it/the more you get out of it. Crafting for profit is my downtime in between RP, aside from a dungeon and a set of dailies per day and after having spent a lot of time leveling up all but two crafts I'm now finally at a point where I can nestle on a pile of a million gil. One of the biggest ways you can see that I'm that kind of player (or whatever you call it) is by asking me how many atmas I've collected.. (One. I have one atma. It is my atma. There may be many like it, but this one is mine). I could have poured my heart and soul into getting my ilevel 100 weapon and probably have that by now-ish but.. Anyways. This is turning into a ramble. I'm not saying that everyone should give up stuff to go farm or craft but more.. illustrate the whole thing about time.Â
Anyways. If there's anything I can really say about making gil is to do your challenge log. It's the best way ever to coincidentally get 35k a week guaranteed. After that, do dailies and maintain ventures (you get 6 ventures per day from dailies) and hope to god they wont come back with fish and a broken off window.Â
And if you love doing the same thing over and over, consider becoming a shard-pusher.. Wind and lightning on Balmung especially. I just bought 1k lightning ones for what I'd call half and arm and then some, because I'm too lazy to go out and get my own shards.
I hope that the housing is going to be worth the effort people put into it, with enough freedom to get creative. And I hope they release more items as well, I'd love to have a tent in my garden with like a fireplace in front of it, and host "camp outs". That is if they come with gardens.