+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Cliques and RP Etiquette (/showthread.php?tid=10229)
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Tiergan - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 08:23 AM)Mamushi Wrote:(02-21-2015, 07:35 PM)Tiergan Wrote: If they say no - then you can silently judge them for having private RP in the middle of a public, open area instead of meeting up at an FC house or a more a place more secluded. ( Because in my mind, it's just common sense to not RP in a giant public hub full of RPers if you don't want to get approached by other RPers. )
I enjoy being in busy areas and people-watching but I'm shy and panic when strangers approach me. Even with friends it makes me uncomfortable. I don't think I should have to remove myself from these places just becuase I don't take well to walkups.
I had two unpleasant experiences earlier this evening that further put me off on acknowledging walk-ups. In both instances, the groups I was with humored these players. Both times these players had a 'their way or no way' mindset and since they didn't get their way, they were going to do their damnedest to ruin it for everyone.
Ahhh, I didn't think of it from that perspective. In that case, this is just extra reason why poking someone with a tell OOC is probably the best bet if someone's not really receiving a response.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Verranicus - 02-22-2015
I'd go as far as to say the Quicksand -is- the most central RP hub. It just doesn't suit my or my characters tastes with the whole 'loud bar full of flirty 20-somethings' atmosphere. Still, it's there.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - TheLastCandle - 02-22-2015
I'm perfectly fine with people joining in my RP, and my character will respond in kind as long as it feels natural. Like Magellan mentioned earlier in the thread, in "real life" you'll be hard pressed to find someone just.. walking up to two people out on the street having a conversation and saying, "HI. HI, MY NAME IS ROBERT AND I COULDN'T HELP BUT OVERHEAR YOU SAYING YOU LIKE X THING I LIKE." I mean, it could happen, but it would probably be seen as a bit weird in any sort of setting that's not intended to be a social gathering of some sort.
Walk-up RP can be tricky, and I think making it feel natural takes a certain level of social skills that some people generally lack. And that's okay. That's why it never hurts for there to be OOC communication.
Regarding the Quicksand, I admit I do avoid it, but it's less about some perceived notion that everyone there is looking for ERP and more about the fact that my character very rarely has reason to be in Ul'dah.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Gaspard - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 04:41 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I don't think anybody is going to hold a grudge over someone who is semi-afk or outright afk missing an emote or two. It happens, especially if the location is busy. I've seen people actively role-playing, however, who couldn't possibly have missed someone walking up to their characters and emoting something unless they're deliberately doing it.
Nobody is obligated to interact with anybody else, of course, but OOC communication isn't to everybody's tastes either. Back when I role-played in WoW random interaction just happened on Argent Dawn EU. There was not lengthy song and dance to go through before people were drawn into the fold and anyone role-playing out in the open was automatically assumed to be up for random role-play.
If, for whatever reason, they weren't? Then they'd be the one to send a polite message stating that it's a private affair and they'd usually make it a point to arrange some interaction at a later date as a gesture of good faith.
Thus that is what I was getting at in terms of being a bit of a culture shock for many role-players, especially if they've come over to FFXIV from other MMO's.
Time for my 50 gil,
I've followed your posts so far, and whlie I understand where you're coming from with 80 percent of your posts, (I shared similar believes in the past), there's however one thing that I think you should be aware of in regards to "OOC communication not being to everyones taste"
I agree that initially, OOC communication can be distracting from mood and immersion if it is used to predetermine a majority of things that are to happen. Leaving things dynamic to a degree is never a bad thing, however;Â
You need to differentiate between the various styles of Roleplay and the situation at hand. A public Bar as such probably invites to various walk ups and talks, after all ; A bar is a public place. Still, even there you might have people talk business at a table, and expect to be undisturbed. Sure, you can just try to initiate 'Roleplay' by walking up, and if you're dealing with good roleplayers they'll handle it ICly.
Chances are just they'll handle it by Icly telling you to annoy some other patrons or get lost. Normal in IC aspect, but it may feel very rude to you as a player. It's not that they want to exclude you, don't wish to make you part of the play, but certain approaches simply do not work in certain scenarios, and expecting others to break character so you can keep your 100 percent immersion by not talking with others OOCly 'will' lead to such situations.
OOC communication in my opinion is important for the following reason; (and perhaps im a minority in this regard). Every Character as such usually has facets and bits to him that the player would like to see exposed or present. A bard is not a bard if he does not sing to groups, a Soldier is not a Soldier if he never fights for his country, A Villain is not a Villain if all he does is menial bar socializing. Helping others, and therein, yourself to enable people to play their characters as they're meant to be portrayed can be the most healthy RP environment you can be in, and that requires you to know who the character you're playing with is, what he does, how he does it, what the player behind the character looks for in Roleplay, and and and. All of this can only be covered in OOC.
A good example of this is if you read the RPC Wiki's of several characters. Often, they have rich, deep stories that saw their characters tackle meaningful fights, overarching scenarios and be part of more moving things. Fighting for their wives, rescuing those in need, and so on. Yet, once they hit the RP scene, you see absolutely nothing of that. They just sit around, chat, try to talk with people in bars, and that is all their RP revolves around. Socializing instead of pursuing your characters ambitions.
In the end, it is probably a difference in RP flavor. I personally enjoy the occational Social RP, but I aim to have my RP somewhat story driven. That includes that my character has from time to time do the things that he does, and that wont work unless I clearly work it through with those I wish to involve OOCly beforehand.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - sforze - 02-22-2015
There's a consistent theme I see brought up here, and I think it needs to be addressed outright so we can hopefully move on from it.
"Cliques are only natural, it's pointless to try to banish them"
This sentiment is really not the point of this thread. If that's the message you're taking from all of this, that was not my intent.
Cliques and friend-groups are obviously going to exist forever and nobody is trying to shut down groups of friends hanging out and preferring each other's company. That's crazy -- seriously, seriously crazy. Totally not what's going on here.
The request here is that in as much as I'm trying my best to be an active, communicative, and interesting roleplayer, there has to be some effort made on behalf of both sides to make it work. All the PMs and friendliness and understanding in the world doesn't make a difference if you can't get those who are pre-established to un-tunnel-vision a bit more. That's really it! You can keep your groups, you can keep preferring people you know and all that. I mean, I can't FORCE you to -- people who have robust connections and all that really don't have anything to lose if they don't feel like being a bit more inclusive, but I'm saying that from the perspective of someone still working to get their foot in the door...might be kinda nice, you know?
I'm not new to the game, nor am I new to RPing -- but I think Graeham hit it on the head that it's been some culture shock coming from the RP that I'm used to to a server of this size with this many pre-established groups and all that. I think Presidio also makes a good point in that I've seen a lot of people taking a dump on the Quicksand in the same hand that it's also trotted out as being one of the most active places to get RP for newbies. Just some food for thought.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Edvyn - 02-22-2015
the quicksand is a good place for newbies for the same reasons people dump on it tbh. anyone entering a RP community needs to see the server's worst as much as they need to see the server's best, and people from both extremes (but usually the former) frequent the quicksand. it's been the same deal for every rp hub in every mmo ever - the blue recluse in wow, that dumb bar in the ossan quarter in gw2, the horned god in tsw, club caprice in that dead mmo we don't talk about anymore i may or may not have been permanently banned from
it's all the same thing, there's nothing inherently wrong with these places, they're just places for everyone and everyone includes shit people
despite generally being a huge asshole to everyone i can safely say that i almost never ignore people who RP at me, no matter how terrible these people may seem. if they're newbies, they're probably going to get better with time and might even become good pals in the future. if they've been around ages and are set in their shitty ways, they're still likely to be fun to dick around with. the best way to deal with bad rp experiences is to laugh it off (at someone's expense).
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Kellach Woods - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 03:06 PM)sforze Wrote: I'm not new to the game, nor am I new to RPing -- but I think Graeham hit it on the head that it's been some culture shock coming from the RP that I'm used to to a server of this size with this many pre-established groups and all that. I think Presidio also makes a good point in that I've seen a lot of people taking a dump on the Quicksand in the same hand that it's also trotted out as being one of the most active places to get RP for newbies. Just some food for thought.
The reason I dump on it isn't because it sucks or anything, but rather because of the chatbox's limitations and its auto-scroll if you're trying to catch-up. If they fix that I have zero problems with the Quicksand.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Tiergan - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 02:45 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote: Walk-up RP can be tricky, and I think making it feel natural takes a certain level of social skills that some people generally lack. And that's okay. That's why it never hurts for there to be OOC communication.
THIS. I'll be the first person to admit that unless I'm on my bard, I am the most awkward penguin alive when it comes to trying to initiate a casual walk-up with someone. ;___; 3 out of 4 of my characters are just not the types to randomly approach people without a reason, so it's really tough. I have to invent hooks for myself and they don't always really work out too well without feeling awkward from a social-sense. Chatting with folks OOC always kind of helps me sort myself out - just to help myself feel less awkward and not to script out an entire interaction.
As for the Quicksand - for me there's a mix of reasons why I don't typically go there.
1) None of my characters except Leilani would really go to a bustling tavern for drinks. It would be pretty out of character for them unless they were invited by someone to share a drink or eat there. While they're not really loners, they're also not the personality type to go to a bar or they have backstory reasons why going to a tavern in Ul'dah specifically wouldn't be a great idea for them. (which is why it kinda bums me out that the Bismark or The Drowning Wench don't get used as often.)
2)
![[Image: 1409834574.jpg]](http://www.collegeokplease.com/uploads/2014-09-04/1409834574.jpg)
As I mentioned before, I am a huge shy dork. :V If I'm not on a character that is naturally outgoing and inquisitive, I feel UNIMAGINABLY awkward trying to plug myself into people's conversations or just walk up to others without coming off like a social cripple. I know that not a lot of people have had success with events, but I suppose I like them mainly because it really helps me when I have some built in context for why my character is around some people. I can springboard off of it and immediately engage folks.
3) Maybe it's not happening anymore, but was a period of time when people soliciting others for ERP got really, really, REALLY bad in the Quicksand. I don't mock Quicksand RP, because I have friends who enjoy going there to fish up random roleplay, but I'm kind of skittish of heading back. There were a ton of times where myself or others I know have gone there, gotten propositioned for ERP minutes into a conversation with a person. Some of my roe-lady friends have gotten asked repeatedly if they're secretly futas. (Wat.) It's also particularly bad if you're playing a miqo'te because lots of ERPers (who often wind up being miqo'te themselves) just kind of assume 99% of all people playing cats want to get their freak on. This has happened even when folks were blatantly playing characters who are basically still children.
I kept visiting here and there on various characters hoping for some random RP - but eventually it honestly felt like if you were in the Quicksand and you weren't looking for a hook-up, no one really wanted to have anything to do with you. It got to the point where at one time, I was really tempted to start a new thread on these forums advocating for a second RP hub in Limsa for people who just want to share a drink/chat with people and not have to worry that someone's going to try and get into someone's pants.
I understand that the there are plenty of people who go to the Quicksand not wanting ERP and that the ERP brigade is not there every single day at every single hour. However, when the majority of your experience is initiating an RP conversation with someone, getting excited that you've managed to strike up a decent conversation, only for it to suddenly veer towards cocks 5 minutes in -- it gets really, really discouraging.
Add the whole cripplingly-shy thing along with the not-really-IC-for-my-character thing and it was actually pretty distressing and uncomfortable for me to be there, more so when I was playing a female character instead of a male.
That said, I might head there with my bard in the future once my real life schedule is less of a clusterfuck to sort of dip my toe in the pool and see if things are a little better now.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Edvyn - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 03:46 PM)Tiergan Wrote:erpers are just part of the tavern rp ecosystem. where there are rpers, there will always be people who are only interested in textfucking. ive personally dealt with some huge creeps (NOT NAMING ANY NAMES YOU PROB. DON'T KNOW THEM) in this game, but they're nothing compared to shit i've seen in other games. the creeps in this game seem to at least grant the courtesy of chatting with you first before they ruin your day and make you feel ill.(02-22-2015, 02:45 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote: Walk-up RP can be tricky, and I think making it feel natural takes a certain level of social skills that some people generally lack. And that's okay. That's why it never hurts for there to be OOC communication.3) Maybe it's not happening anymore, but was a period of time when people soliciting others for ERP got really, really, REALLY bad in the Quicksand. Â I don't mock Quicksand RP, because I have friends who enjoy going there to fish up random roleplay, but I'm kind of skittish of heading back. There were a ton of times where myself or others I know have gone there, gotten propositioned for ERP minutes into a conversation with a person. Â Some of my roe-lady friends have gotten asked repeatedly if they're secretly futas. Â (Wat.) Â It's also particularly bad if you're playing a miqo'te because lots of ERPers (who often wind up being miqo'te themselves) just kind of assume 99% of all people playing cats want to get their freak on. Â This has happened even when folks were blatantly playing characters who are basically still children.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - IvikBlack - 02-22-2015
It seems generally agreed that the Quicksand is the main RP hub and that's a problem, so why not do it elsewhere? The Golden Saucer seems like the perfect place to RP given that it's going to be a social/casual mecca anyway.
Why don't we all plan to RP more publicly and do it there? It's supposed to be a very large space that's diverse and inclusive. I think that will solve this problem mostly.
The whole "I avoid low skill RPers" thing is a problem though. That's an attitude that will steer you away from new RPers and poor RPers alike. It will create an insular community. If too many people adhere to that it creates the very problem that this whole post is about.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Kage - 02-22-2015
I'm gonna reiterate what I've said before.
Possibilities for why people may not answer you when there is no visible fast chat scrolling:
Some people are so inundated with very chatty Linkshells that though you may not have seen the chat as fast-scrolling, theirs may be filled with text. They might be dealing with /tells or linkshells or fc chats. Try to contact them through a /tell because the default notification for /tells are purple text with a sound notification.
Another factor may just be tunnel visioning. Sometimes it's very easy to pay attention to the current group or persons that one is interacting with that they don't pay attention to other people emoting or directing conversation at them. They may be only checking what people they know may be saying etc. They're mostly just scanning for the text from the active known group. Again, sending a /tell just to ask "Hey I wanted to try and initiate some walk-up RP. Are you up for it? Did you miss it?" wouldn't hurt.
Alt+tabbing is very real so unless they already have an idea that you may have said something to them (tunnel visioning) they may not notice it either.
I have never had someone outright ignore a /tell unless they ended up being afk sooner or later. As someone who dual-screens and can only impart my own experience, it's very easy to miss something when they're not focused directly on the chat 100%
edit: It's really the same as for some social situations. If I'm in a crowded place like a convention floor or in a market, though it -is- public I don't actively scan the area around me for their conversations. So it's not easy to notice until they get your attention. In this game, emoting -to- someone is not as direct as getting up in someone's face and waving and saying hello versus sending them a /tell. Granted, you -could- get your character right up on someone else's and start waving and they might notice but they may see that more towards trolling until they see the accompanying text of your character's actions.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Edvyn - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 03:57 PM)Presidio Wrote: It seems generally agreed that the Quicksand is the main RP hub and that's a problem, so why not do it elsewhere?it won't
The Golden Saucer seems like the perfect place to RP given that it's going to be a social/casual mecca anyway.
Why don't we all plan to RP more publicly and do it there? It's supposed to be a very large space that's diverse and inclusive.
I think that will solve this problem.
if a new hub is declared, the people who made the quicksand a "problem" will simply move there. it's not like the place itself is responsible for its bad rep. there is nothing that can be done to stop people looking down upon main rp hubs, and it's not worth fussing over. people hate popular things. its cool to hate popular things. rp wherever you want to, but please don't delude yourself into thinking moving hubs will save rp or something. it won't. and that's perfectly fine.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Aya - 02-22-2015
The Quicksand is NOT a problem. Â I have spent more hours there than most people and there are moments of awkwardness and periodically someone propositions you, but these are relatively rare. Â It is one of the finest and most pleasant rp hubs I have encountered in any mmo.
Not that I expect or would want everyone to like it
Thinking its a problem though just seems like a most mistaken reading of the posts in this thread.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Val - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 04:17 PM)Aya Wrote: The Quicksand is NOT a problem. Â I have spent more hours there than most people and there are moments of awkwardness and periodically someone propositions you, but these are relatively rare. Â It is one of the finest and most pleasant rp hubs I have encountered in any mmo.
I think it depends on who you are, and the day. There have been times when I've gone to the Quicksand and emoted for hours to get nothing--especially if I'm on my alt. Val tends to get noticed or interacted with because people know him and he's a catboy.
My Midlanders? I even emoted one bumping into someone else, or spilling his drink on someone, or asking someone else questions--all different days--all ignored.
I don't necessarily think the Quicksand is a problem, as I know a bunch of people that go there and do get interaction. But I do think that it can be disheartening and incredibly annoying to try multiple days of the week and get nothing in return.
I will say I dislike how people seem to gravitate toward the Quicksand. It's so hard to find RP outside of it, and I wish there were. I'm hoping the Gold Saucer changes that, but it's also going to be a ridiculously huge lagfest with a ton of non-RPers unless they manage to instance it off like housing.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Kellach Woods - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 04:23 PM)Val Wrote: My Midlanders? I even emoted one bumping into someone else, or spilling his drink on someone, or asking someone else questions--all different days--all ignored.
Male midlander is Quicksand EX - you will NOT get RP.