(11-06-2015, 03:21 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:08 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: Someone just slut-shamed in this thread on the first page, calling a former guild member a "ho." And I see it from people I play with in-game all the time. It's casually accepted in our culture that we should describe women who have lots of sex as being "hos" or "sluts" who are somehow not doing the right thing (because we accept that sex is somehow shameful), but men who have lots of sex are just doing the man thing right.

Pretty sure the proper term for them is "man-ho" or "manslut."  I've heard those bandied around a lot, to.  But that's neither here nor there, I suppose.

Quote:I can also understand why the word "prostitute" is considered harmful to sex workers. It has harmful connotations. When people say the word or hear the word applied to a person, especially a woman, they're not thinking about good things. They're thinking about a "skanky whore" who is dishonest and a bad person who sells her body for money. The word prostitute has been loaded with negative connotations by our media, our law enforcement and our politicians.

When I hear the word, "prostitute," I think of a woman selling her body for money.  I don't think I've ever had the words "skanky whore" fly through my mind when reading the word or reading a story involving prostitutes, probably because both of those words contain emotion attached to them that would require emotional investment on my part to feel.  What I usually think when I hear about prostitutes getting arrested is, "I wonder how she got there?  I wonder why no one helped her?  I wonder if she's okay?"  This is primarily because I've never encountered a prostitute that wanted to be a prostitute.

Quote:The word prostitute is also often automatically assumed to apply to trans women, especially trans women of color. Even white trans women have to deal with this assumption, though. I can barely dress appropriately for hot weather without encountering at least one creeper per week who tries to get me to suck his cock behind a dumpster for money. I don't dare dress in an intentionally provocative manner unless I've got a bunch of friends with me.

I've never encountered this.  I am not trans, but quite a few of my friends are.  I'm going to have to ask them, but this has literally never come up in conversation or situation with any of them, and several I've been friends with for over a decade or near to a decade.

Quote:You may not accept the word as being a slur, and technically it isn't so in that you're correct, but it's absolutely loaded with negativity in all kinds of ways. If you don't think so, ask any random woman if they're a prostitute. Chances are they won' reply with a simple, "No, my occupation is..." response.

I would posit that what's loaded with negativity is the actual job, and sex in general.  Changing the word "prostitute" to something else won't dispel that negativity.  Or, rather, it will - until people figure out what the new word actually means.

(11-06-2015, 03:27 AM)PkThunda Wrote: First and foremost; sexworkers are not victims. Wondering why no one 'helped' them removes their bodily autonomy- for some it's the only job they can keep, due to disability, lack of well paying jobs in their community, or wanting to spend more time with their family. 
Sex-trafficking is a completely different beast; they are not sexworkers, but victims of a cruel practice that thrives where sexwork is criminalized. I can expand on this in PM if you'd like.

Secondly, sexworkers do not sell their bodies unless they are in on the black market's need for organs.
They sell time and the service of physical intimacy.

(11-06-2015, 03:28 AM)Shoshopu Wrote: Is it really that difficult to avoid using a word when you know someone (or a group of someones) in the community might be made uncomfortable by it? Harmed by it in their offline lives? In this case I think a more than reasonable argument has been made. It's not like OP was asking anyone to change how they think about sex workers or change how you RP it, but to just be mindful of it when discussing it OOC. Especially around other sex workers.

Or is this more of a principle of the matter thing, like "I don't feel like I should have to do this thing so I won't"?

(11-06-2015, 03:28 AM)Shoshopu Wrote: Is it really that difficult to avoid using a word when you know someone (or a group of someones) in the community might be made uncomfortable by it? Harmed by it in their offline lives? In this case I think a more than reasonable argument has been made. It's not like OP was asking anyone to change how they think about sex workers or change how you RP it, but to just be mindful of it when discussing it OOC. Especially around other sex workers.

Or is this more of a principle of the matter thing, like "I don't feel like I should have to do this thing so I won't"?

(11-06-2015, 03:28 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I've literally replied five or six times to you, and this is what you choose to nitpick about while ignoring everything else I've said?

Okay.  

(11-06-2015, 03:30 AM)PkThunda Wrote: I should add something important:

Sexworkers are allowed to reclaim the language if they want to. If you know a sexworker who is alright with you saying certain words in private, then go ahead! The issue comes up when in a public setting like a forum here.

(11-06-2015, 03:27 AM)PkThunda Wrote: First and foremost; sexworkers are not victims. Wondering why no one 'helped' them removes their bodily autonomy- for some it's the only job they can keep, due to disability, lack of well paying jobs in their community, or wanting to spend more time with their family. 
Sex-trafficking is a completely different beast; they are not sexworkers, but victims of a cruel practice that thrives where sexwork is criminalized. I can expand on this in PM if you'd like.

Secondly, sexworkers do not sell their bodies unless they are in on the black market's need for organs.
They sell time and the service of physical intimacy.

(11-06-2015, 03:32 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: I would argue they are often victims of poor socioeconomic conditions. As others have said, very few sex workers would choose that work over an equally well paid job that would fit their own particular needs.

(11-06-2015, 03:09 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: None of those terms are legal terms for an occupation. All of the terms I saw and recognized are used in a pejorative manner probably 99% of the time. I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

(11-06-2015, 03:34 AM)PkThunda Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:32 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: I would argue they are often victims of poor socioeconomic conditions. As others have said, very few sex workers would choose that work over an equally well paid job that would fit their own particular needs.

As are many minimum wage workers who hold 2-3 jobs they would rather not have.

(11-06-2015, 03:30 AM)PkThunda Wrote: I should add something important:

Sexworkers are allowed to reclaim the language if they want to. If you know a sexworker who is alright with you saying certain words in private, then go ahead! The issue comes up when in a public setting like a forum here.

(11-06-2015, 03:13 AM)PkThunda Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 03:09 AM)Gharen Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 02:21 AM)PkThunda Wrote: It is, however, not your say in which words should and should not be accepted.

Pk, personal crusade or not, sometimes people should take their own advice. And realize that not everyone will agree with you whether you like it or not. And sometimes it's just better to agree, to disagree.

As I said in my original post, no one has to agree to sexwork to be respectful of its members, and it is the say of the group that is being affected by said language to say whether or not it is harmful. The group is question is one I am part of, and know others who are also part of, who have been asking for a change.

(11-06-2015, 03:09 AM)Gharen Wrote: Pk, personal crusade or not, sometimes people should take their own advice. And realize that not everyone will agree with you whether you like it or not. And sometimes it's just better to agree, to disagree.