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Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Printable Version

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RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Aysun - 05-16-2013

I don't mind some deviation from what we've been given, my own character deviates a bit in some places, but when it becomes excessive I wonder: what's the point in playing a race if you don't like/want to play within their lore/traditions..?

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Nel Celestine - 05-16-2013

(05-16-2013, 05:31 PM)Rhynka Wrote: This right here is what I am afraid of. The reason I killed off my character and left WoW. A similar idea was being imposed on me, I felt violated OoC when a reasonable request to fade to black on the kinky bits was met with hostility. The guy in question was considered respectable by the community so instead of going against the grain I killed her off ICly. (Since the man acted like IC and OoC were one in the same.) My husband also wasn't happy with the way the guy acted like he owned me OoC as well with all the lewd comments over vent infront of others and threw a fit when my husband told him to back off. Since then we decided we do not want to engage with anything that enforces an idea remotely like that. I still want Rhynka to be mysterious, exotic and feral but I don't like the whole challenging the Nuhn system there.


The lore there doesn't state it was absolute fact for all Miqo'te everywhere.  You can change it to suit your needs to a degree if you want to run with the whole tribal idea and people won't / shouldn't come down on you with a lore hammer.  It could be really easily explained too.  Family members from your tribe decided they wanted to be together exclusively and so either A) left to form their own tribe B) managed to change the rules of their own tribe of C) any other method you can come up with.

As for your experience in WoW.  I'm terribly sorry for that experience you had.  At least know that here we are much more respectable about personal space and comfort zones for all types of Role Play.  Not everyone wants to deal with different things and we (should) respect each others choices and limits.

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Rhynka - 05-16-2013

(05-16-2013, 06:07 PM)Eva Wrote: I know it's a little off-topic but I felt compelled to respond:

While I'm not sorry that you left WoW and eventually found your way here, I am sorry that this happened and it sounds like a pretty lousy way to "enjoy" free time in a game and I certainly don't blame either of you for being upset about it.

I don't think there is anything in the lore to suggest that deviating from the nuhn system to an extent that you are comfortable with would be some great sin.  The "cultural norms" that S-E has provided are more like guidelines and in many instances can probably be regarded as traditional.  I think a lot of characters are more contemporary and Eorzea - being the melting pot it is - is a much more open-minded place and variations on these older ways of thinking are probably "the new normal" in a sense.  And I think your character may still be mysterious and exotic as you make her in spite of your/her preferences for handling that particular element of her story.  Your choices (and your husband's) are yours and no one should be able to take away from that, or from your enjoyment of the game or the RP experience.
Thank you very much! I am relieved that such deviations are welcome! I hope the ones I wrote on and came up with can enhance my role play with others! I don't mind conflict in RP, hope I didn't come off that way!

Thanks again! Heart

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Rhostel - 05-16-2013

(05-16-2013, 05:31 PM)Rhynka Wrote:
(03-19-2013, 11:39 AM)Rhostel Wrote: Don't forget, no one is nuhn forever. I'm sure the position changes hands enough to avoid truly excessive inbreeding.

Not to mention tribes might trade members for any number of reasons.
This right here is what I am afraid of. The reason I killed off my character and left WoW. A similar idea was being imposed on me, I felt violated OoC when a reasonable request to fade to black on the kinky bits was met with hostility. The guy in question was considered respectable by the community so instead of going against the grain I killed her off ICly. (Since the man acted like IC and OoC were one in the same.) My husband also wasn't happy with the way the guy acted like he owned me OoC as well with all the lewd comments over vent infront of others and threw a fit when my husband told him to back off. Since then we decided we do not want to engage with anything that enforces an idea remotely like that. I still want Rhynka to be mysterious, exotic and feral but I don't like the whole challenging the Nuhn system there.
I'm a bit confused. Not because of your concerns, they're totally valid and something you should act on as you're comfortable doing so. I just don't see any connection between your statement and my post you quoted. My comment was just about cultural norms, not how people should or even could be expected to play it out.

The Seeker clan system is not a healthy way of life for humans, and we shouldn't be overtly trying to engage in it. We should try to understand it, though, so we can see the cultural context for Seekers of the Sun, whether as players of them or of other races interacting with them. It's about background, things that may have happened in the past of a character, not about things that should play out except as something they might struggle to overcome. Even then, it shouldn't be about whether they will succeed, but about how they will.

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - allgivenover - 05-17-2013

Rhynka, I don't think the problem you ran into had anything to do with the lore. It just seems like you ran into an immature asshole who tried to break down the IC/OOC barrier.

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Blade - 05-17-2013

(05-16-2013, 09:21 PM)Rhostel Wrote: It's about background, things that may have happened in the past of a character, not about things that should play out except as something they might struggle to overcome.

This, underscored a few times.

Adventurers as a whole tend to give up a lot of their previous lives. While I think its important to factor in the lore and try to incorporate it into your character as much as possible, realize that the lore isn't describing the end all be all of what your character can be doing today.

Adventurers as a whole are sort of a class among themselves, and are frequently referred to as such by NPCs. They don't necessarily follow all the cultural norms due to their lifestyle. They may not may much respects to a given tribe, and some may have taken up the adventuring lifestyle specifically to get away from what restrictions there may have already been in place.

So in the end... I'd say make the lore important in your backstory. But it doesn't have to determine what is important to your character in this stage of their life.

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Momoji Momochi - 05-18-2013

Hmm, I've been reading some posts here inferring that Sunseeker men have what is essentially a harem, but I have a different perspective on their society. While the naming conventions for Sunseekers certainly do play favorites with male names, their society is overwhelmingly female, meaning almost all functions of society are run by women. Furthermore, the naming convention states that men are either known as Nahn or Tia, meaning their sole recognized contribution to society is their ability to reproduce. It doesn't matter if they are particularly good at athletics, scholarly pursuits, or hunting: These are all secondary to whether or not he is judged fit for siring children.

Since Nahn are chosen by combat, the relationship between men and women in Sunseeker society is not based upon love, but physical ability. To make matters worse, the women have to compete with one another just to be with the Nahn. While I know that their society is based on the behavior of lions, Sunseekers are an intelligent, sentient race and not a bunch of non-sentient predatory cats.

Here is a scary thought: Some of the men may not want to risk their lives fighting one another and attempt to run away. However, the women are trained hunters and the men are few in number, making them valuable regardless of being Tia or Nahn. What do you think the likelihood would be of a male sunseeker escaping to one of the city states while being pursued by huntresses of the same tribe? What if another tribe caught wind of the runaway men and sent their own huntresses to retrieve them?

My point is, men are a trophy object in Miqo'te society, not the other way around. So anyone thinking you got a harem by being a male miqo'te, think again. Tongue
___________________
P.S. I'm not saying anyone has to rewrite their character backstory. If you have a harem, you have a harem! I'm just stating my viewpoint on their society, since I find it can make for a very good backstory for why a male miqo'te might leave their tribe.

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - allgivenover - 05-18-2013

You're right in that there's no reason to conclude that Seeker males actively possess a harem, but I don't see where you're getting that the females have to compete with one another to be with a Nuhn, or that men are simply trophy objects in Seeker society (though that may be the case with Keepers, who are described as being "highly matriarchal").

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Momoji Momochi - 05-18-2013

(05-18-2013, 05:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: You're right in that there's no reason to conclude that Seeker males actively possess a harem, but I don't see where you're getting that the females have to compete with one another to be with a Nuhn, or that men are simply trophy objects in Seeker society (though that may be the case with Keepers, who are described as being "highly matriarchal").

I'm just over thinking things and some of my story ideas for my character ended up bleeding into the post. Yeah, there is no reason to believe that the women compete for the male or that the male is considered a trophy piece. Its more of my take on what could go horribly wrong in such a society as the Seekers' own.

Please forgive me if I start to go off into purely speculative territory. I have a very active imagination when it comes to back stories. Big Grin

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Moonfire - 05-19-2013

From what I have read here:
http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Miqo%27te

The males nuhn don't necessarily have a harem but they are the breeding male and thus that implies that they breed more then one female. It doesn't say how the females the nuhn breeds to are chosen. It could differ by tribe or be the males choice, females choice, etc. Also it doesn't specify that the challenge for nuhn is strictly a physical challenge. The nuhn thing only effects breeding so females could essentially love and be in a relationship with a specific tia, just that breeding is for the Nuhn for the strength of the tribe the tia would allow the Nuhn his breeding rights. Kind of like a King in medieval times having his way with females under order of the law. That's how I see it anyway.

RE: Miqo'te Culture Discussion/Speculation! - Grike - 06-14-2013

Must...reply...to...thread

I'm sorry, I know this thread has probably been beaten like a dead horse but I can't help it, I have to throw out my own ideas. It'll be long, it'll be nerdy, and it might even be a complete waste of time but that's never stopped me before so here we go. 

Ahem.

Lets look at this logically. The makers of the Realm Reborn are not pulling this Lore out of their asses. Most of our questions could probably be answered by looking at tribes in the real world. From what I can tell Seeker culture is a mix of bushmen tribes and a lion pride while Keeper is more jungle tribes and a parade of elephants.

Questions Posed:
  • How do Seekers, and Keepers for that matter, keep their gene pools diverse with such a small amount of breeding males? This seems... problematic from a genetic and longevity standpoint. (Not to mention we're probably going to have a few Seekers bragging about their 50 women harems and beating their chests about it... ._.)

I have two theories. 
One: Like in a pride of lions, when a young male reaches a certain age he is driven out of the pride. As for the female offspring, by the time they're ready to mate the alpha male has usually been replaced by a stronger, younger contender. This still doesn't mean interbreeding doesn't happen, but it's rare. And hopefully the Seekers are intelligent enough to avoid it.

Two: From what little I know of tribal culture (I'm certainly no expert) who your parents were is very important. It's almost like a cast system for societal expectations. If you're father was a good hunter - you were going to be a good hunter. If someone was a bad person, then the tribe would know to look out for their children because they would probably be bad too (which worked in a way if the dad was 'bad' because of a hereditary mental illness.) But anyway, my point is, because of this your lineage is very important. In other words you would know who was related to you and who wasn't. Incest could be that hard to avoid. 

Personally I think it would be a mix of the two. Males are described as being more territorial so it's no surprise that many would leave the tribe. And because the position of Nuhn is decided by strength, the Nuhn's would probably be replaced often enough to provide a sizable gene pool. 
  • How much freedom do nuhn have, anyway? What about nuhn of the Keepers? ARE there nuhn within the Keepers, or is there a more '"nuclear family" situation?

I think this goes back to the whole lions and tiger thing. Though, Honestly I think Keeper culture would be closer to elephants. Females would live in groups; taking care of the young, while the males would pop up every now and again to do the dirty deed. 

Seekers would probably have as much responsibility as the male lion. He doesn't have to hunt but it's his responsibility to patrol a tribes territory and protect them from any threats.
  • I find it interesting that nuhn are rarely in leadership roles, and I wonder what that means. Are men rarely considered for leadership altogether, or are the nuhns' duties considered to be too much with the added responsibility of leadership (*gigglesnort*)? 

Again, this goes back to tribal culture. Above all hunters are usually paramount - they are what keeps the tribe going. In lion prides females are the ones that hunt while a male's job is to protect the pride from any threats and patrol territory. 
  • Is there tension or animosity between the Seekers and Keepers? How did their schism arise?

I don't think so simply because they don't live near each other. They don't have to fight for resources or territory so why fight at all? Though I'm sure they think the other is 'weird' I doubt they have any real animosity for each other. 

  • From how nuhn gain their status through battle, we can assume that physical strength and skill is valued among Miqo'te. Does this permeate other facets of their cultures? I can almost imagine they might have holidays with events like the Highland games!

That I would love to see. I could imagine hunting something dangerous would be a tradition for both clans. Like maybe to reach adulthood you have to successfully hunt something on your own. 
  • What does Miqo'te art look like? I would be so ecstatic to know! The only thing I can glean from the lore they gave us, is that it would probably include their totems as well as their gods and the sun/moon.

I like Cassandra's idea - though it seems more appropriate for Keepers then Seekers. Seeker art would probably be more simplified, I think. 

Whew, alright, I'm done. I could say a whole lot more but I'm sure people are getting tired of the massive wall of text. lol. Anyway, this is all just speculation. When it comes down to it I think The Seeker tribe would be a lot like a lion pride and the bushmen of southern Africa. Keepers would be more like an elephant parade and a jungle tribe...

Hope I didn't bore you guys too much!