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+--- Thread: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" (/showthread.php?tid=19618)
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Berrod Armstrong - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 08:12 AM)Oswin Wrote:This.(06-08-2017, 12:34 AM)Sylentmana Wrote: Imagine each server as an apartment. Balmung is an apartment that houses a particular group of people who have formed into a community of sorts within the building. This community attracts the attention of others who wish to join, but there's a problem. The apartment has become full. Sure, you can still bribe the landlord to let you in, but by this point people are sleeping in the halls.
Now, those that can't get in or can't pay the bribe decide to build their own apartment next door. Unfortunately, their on they're own as the city refuses to help and there are no contractors available. So these people, faced with an extremely difficult and daunting task, go next door to the overpopulated apartment to ask for people in their shared community to give of some of their time to come over and help them build.
The people of Balmung Apartments smile and say "We support your endeavors" but refuse to actually leave for a bit to help with the construction. "We don't have time," they say. "We're to busy doing what we want to do. Our fun comes first." On and on it goes like this for months with the same lines, putting themselves first instead. "Don't blame us," they say. "Its not our fault the apartments are full. Its not our fault that we would rather spend our time on ourselves."
Now, Balmung Apartments are so full that people are sleeping on the porches and hanging from the gutters. Meanwhile, the neighbors over on Mateus Lots do their best to build themselves a home. Its a shame so few are willing to help.
TL;DR
Mateus: Hey guys. Could some of you donate a few hours each week to help us build a second RP communtiy for those who can't get into Balmung?
Balmung: Here's some lip service of support, but fuck you, we got ours. Do it yourself.
So... look. I'm one of those Balmung people that transferred over to Mateus to help get settled and promote community growth. How's it going?
I'm going to lay down some fucking data here, since the conceived notion that Mateus isn't growing or isn't becoming more active is 100% incorrect.
The Mateus RP Hub has grown so much that events are happening daily. They aren't just spur of the moment activities either, there are planned out events happening constantly where it used to be weekly or bi-weekly.Â
The RPM, the RP linkshell of Mateus, is getting ready to open it's 3rd linkshell. That means we are quickly hitting 250 active players. This is a mains only linkshell.Â
Mateus itself has grown by over 700 characters in the last three months alone and is the second fastest growing server behind Cactuar. You know something about Cactuar? It's the largest open server on NA. Mateus is the smallest even after the 700 people. Hell, Mateus has gained 16% of it's total population in the last 3 months alone. This doesn't include anyone under 35.
Between my poll and Leggerless's poll, over 400 people have given their vote to support Mateus. With the RPM/RP Hub growth coupled with server populations flourishing it is plainly obvious that not only are people rolling on Mateus there are also transfers (such as I) going to bring Mateus up.Â
Your notion that you think so few are willing to help is wrong when data and events say the opposite. If you feel like more should be done pick up the slack yourself and help build up Mateus.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - LiadansWhisper - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 08:55 AM)Sylentmana Wrote: And yes, by the very nature of being involved in a community, you are obligated to help those who ask for it. That's the point of a community; to be there for each other when they need it.
Actually, no one is obligated to do anything in pixel pretends fun times other than what makes them happy.
They are not obligated to help anyone, and they for damn sure aren't obligated to ignore real life obligations (which are actual obligations) to spend extra time or money on someone else's endeavor just because some random dude on the internet says so.
Quote:I think this will also be my last post on the issue. I've said my peace.
Okay. Bye.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Meishali - 06-08-2017
[Modshali] As with all discussions, keep it civil. Nudges can turn into full punches, and jabs, actual spears. Keep your snark at bay and express yourself respectfully, even if you think the person you're talking to is an absolute idiot, or a rude frick. No need to let it show, and no need it to say it. No lines have been crossed yet, so let's keep the thread clean, bois. OP is a good chap, don't do this to them because an internet pretendyman has a different opinion. [/Modshali]
I personally joined Balmung two years ago, about the same time I joined this forum. I was convinced at the time there were several servers with RP communities and picked one that felt like a good start.Â
Back then, you could create characters on the server at relatively early EU times without issue. Honestly, if I knew it would devolve into such a thing reading all these horrible string of comments and threads, I might've gone with the community of frenchies I avoided for so long on Ragnarok (EU).
Gegenji post covers it all, so I won't repeat the very good, well-expressed points they made earlier.
I have two old friends from WoW who were devastated when they saw Balmung on lockout. We were supposed to play together, but it was just hell.
There is very little we can do - as players. Square Enix should actually help us fix. And they will at least try, through free transfers, among other things. The incoming jump potions may also encourage people to try other servers for themselves, and I know it will definitely do it for me.Â
This is my personal decision, as I'm sure a lower-pop server can be less exhausting, and I've always had a thing for fresh starts, new characters, and new friends. I'm a natural when it comes to seeking out LSes, communities and RP groups, so I know it will not be difficult nor hard for me to hop on a new server, but it is not the case of anyone. I know people who dread at the idea of 'starting over' or who have social anxiety and even just reaching out online is hard for them.
I don't think it is good to be immediately offended when people ask for help either - and in the same way, people are sadly not 'obligated' de facto to help, even if, it's a community called FFXIV Roleplayers and not Balmung Roleplayers.
Most people who are on Balmung will, sadly, not care or look the other way, and they may take asks for helps as guilt-tripping rounds lmao. It shows as much on this thread, and the others. And honestly, it's fine, and completely understandable. I wouldn't even consider it if it weren't for jump-potions myself, it's my home, I got my FCs, my hundreds of RP contacts, life's good.
If you don't want to move, it's all right. If you want to move, it's all right. If you don't want to help by making RP active on other servers, it's all right. If you want to help by making RP active on other servers, it's all right. You paid ur game. U decide.
My suggestion, and only idea, is to make pop-up RP nights for all these lower-pop servers as dailies, in zones accessible at level 1-20. Leveling a character 15 to have access to all cities goes in a flash. If anything, it'd allow people to test the waters with a really minimal effort. I know what you think ('muh glamours'), it's fine, really.
TL;DR: If you can check out other servers, it's cool. If you can't/don't want to, it's cool. Please do not blame players and entire servers for this whole discourse, but turn to SE.
If they gave us a RP tag, it means they know we exist. Surely, they could do more for us regarding that issue.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Sig - 06-08-2017
A few observations before work (I wish I could respond to things in detail but just don't have the time):
(1) The OP should have paid $18 and joined Balmung months ago. It is unreasonable for people to cast an $18 transfer fee as an insurmountable or objectionable barrier. Eighteen dollars is a paltry sum of money (a couple pints of beers; two hours worth of work at minimum wage; a night at the movies; a birthday gift from a distant friend, etc.), and the return on that tiny investment [at least 4 hours of entertainment; likely /hundreds/ of hours of entertainment] is enormous.
(2) I cringe every time I read vague allegations about how RP is impossible to find on Balmung or how someone needs connections to find RP on Balmung. That isn't the case. It is extremely easy to find RP on Balmung because it is everywhere, and RPers are generally extremely supportive of new comers. If you can't find RP on Balmung, you're actually less likely to find it elsewhere - especially the style/content you enjoy - and should consider trying a little harder.
(3) RP should be consolidated on one server. It doesn't matter where that server is. We're a small community and need to stick together to make sure RP remains frequent and diverse.Â
(4) The hyperbole about Maetus being the new promised land of RP is colored with so much self-interest that it makes me sad. Maetus likely began as a tiny enclave of RPers who deliberately chose to break off from Balmung for purely person reasons. Perhaps they thought there were too many futas in the Quicksand. Maybe they wanted housing. Who knows. But they made a decision not to participate in the greater RP community where 80%+ of RPers roleplay.Â
When SE locked server transfers, 5-10 Maetus RPers did a terrific job of orchestrating an effort to promote their server -- not just as a place where people can RP if they can't access the greater community on Balmung, but as the next "unofficial" RP server. Some of those users cite erroneous statistics purporting that Balmung is completely unsustainable, or failed to see that there are many ways to preserve a central RP hub and deal with a population problem. They did this out of a desire to grow their small RP community. What they do not understand or value is that RPers /need/ to be consolidated in one central community to ensure the long-term viability of the RP community as a whole, and that their efforts would naturally fragment multiple RP communities.
Now, there are three camps of people on Maetus: (1) people who left Balmung for personal reasons; (2) the "let me make an alt and show support" crowd; and (3) new players who cannot access Balmung. This isn't a mass exodus. At most there are 100-200 active RPers (many who can't access the centralized RP hub and will likely do so when they can), and a legion of alts of people who do value RPing on a centralized RP hub who are there to show support. Most RPers have no intention of leaving Balmung, even to play around on alts. They know the value of a large centralized RP hub, and believe that the transfer restrictions will be lifted. When this happens, most will gravitate towards the central RP hub again.
(5) The best thing that could happen would be for Maetus (or another small server) to be designated as an official RP server by SE, and for all RPers to transfer to that server. RPers should be working towards this goal. But, most are very comfortable on Balmung (for good reason), and others labor under the misbelief that an alternative unofficial server designation would work. Splintering the community never works.
(6) Servers are dumb artificial barriers that only divide people and serve no purpose.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Flynn Rosenberg - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 09:46 AM)Sig Wrote: A few observations before work (I wish I could respond to things in detail but just don't have the time):No.
(1) The OP should have paid $18 and joined Balmung months ago.
(06-08-2017, 09:46 AM)Sig Wrote: (2) I cringe every time I read vague allegations about how RP is impossible to find on Balmung or how someone needs connections to find RP on Balmung. That isn't the case. It is extremely easy to find RP on Balmung because it is everywhere, and RPers are generally extremely supportive of new comers. If you can't find RP on Balmung, you're actually less likely to find it elsewhere - especially the style/content you enjoy - and should consider trying a little harder.ÂConnections exist because not everyone shares the same RP taste.
(06-08-2017, 09:46 AM)Sig Wrote: (3) RP should be consolidated on one server. It doesn't matter where that server is.No. And PING. DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE WORLD.
The rest, we don't need to repeat ourselves over this again.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Meishali - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 09:46 AM)Sig Wrote: (3) RP should be consolidated on one server. It doesn't matter where that server is. We're a small community and need to stick together to make sure RP remains frequent and diverse.Â
(4) The hyperbole about Maetus being the new promised land of RP is colored with so much self-interest that it makes me sad. Maetus likely began as a tiny enclave of RPers who deliberately chose to break off from Balmung for purely person reasons. Perhaps they thought there were too many futas in the Quicksand. Maybe they wanted housing. Who knows. But they made a decision not to participate in the greater RP community where 80%+ of RPers roleplay.Â
When SE locked server transfers, 5-10 Maetus RPers did a terrific job of orchestrated a concerted effort to promote their server -- not just as a place where people can RP if they can't access the greater community on Balmung, but as the next "unofficial" RP server. Some of those users cite erroneous statistics purporting that Balmung is completely unsustainable, or failed to see that there are many ways to preserve a central RP hub and deal with a population problem. They did this out of a desire to grow their small RP community. What they do not understand or value is that RPers /need/ to be consolidated in one central community to ensure the long-term viability of the RP community as a whole. [...]
Sig, RP can not be consolidated on one server. People are already RPing in different places. OP did not transfer back then, and it was their choice not to, and I do not think they're complaining about not RPing on Balmung.
You can also not say Balmung is 'greater'. Nobody knows if it's 'the best'. Greater in the amount of Roefutas lurking about the Quicksand, maybe. I'm not judging! But it's all numbers, and while, of course, it is HUGE in terms of playerbase, it's still locked right now - we're not talking about what should have been, but about what is happening now, and honestly I'm thrilled to know there are other worlds than Balmung thriving.
I do not think you can blame people making accessible new RP communities while one of the legacy servers nearly everyone (who isn't in) regrets not being in is on lockdown.
To me, it is like a full LS. If it is full, make another one. You can not tell people to go to the other linkshell, or that they should've joined it earlier. It is unfair, uncouth, and uncalled for. The issue is the lack of space. Not the lack of will to roleplay, nor the people building new communities. The very prospect of roleplayers having several other caches is exciting to me.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - ArmachiA - 06-08-2017
Man, this was supposed to simple, guys.
Balmung locked and we were all supposed to come together and put people somewhere else - temporary or not.
It was supposed to be a simple community effort to put people somewhere while Balmung is not an option and while people set up camp to forge a new server or pushed for an official <RP> tag or whatever.
It's turned into a bunch of people pushing their agendas and not listening. Telling people they are doing too much, telling people they are doing to little, fighting over whats the best server, fighting over "Balmung taking over" or "Balmung isn't doing anything" or "Balmung should be the only option" or "Mateus is a terrible option" or fighting over... I don't even KNOW what at this point?
This was supposed to be an endeavor to help
We all need to take a step back and look at what this is becoming.
It's such a shame.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 10:21 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Man, this was supposed to simple, guys.
Balmung locked and we were all supposed to come together and put people somewhere else - temporary or not.
It was supposed to be a simple community effort to put people somewhere while Balmung is not an option and while people set up camp to forge a new server or pushed for an official <RP> tag or whatever.
It's turned into a bunch of people pushing their agendas and not listening. Telling people they are doing too much, telling people they are doing to little, fighting over whats the best server, fighting over "Balmung taking over" or "Balmung isn't doing anything" or "Balmung should be the only option" or "Mateus is a terrible option" or fighting over... I don't even KNOW what at this point?
This was supposed to be an endeavor to help
We all need to take a step back and look at what this is becoming.
It's such a shame.
It looks exactly the same as the "Balmung vs Gilgamesh" threads. Like, -exactly- the same except the staff aren't purging/graveyarding these threads.
(06-08-2017, 09:46 AM)Sig Wrote: A few observations before work (I wish I could respond to things in detail but just don't have the time)
None of those observations are new. You've literally repeated the exact same posts multiple times. I ran them through a diff checker. I've already gone over a number of your points in a number of threads where you've pasted in the same post which tends to be off-topic for that conversation/discussion. If you don't have something of actual value to add to the thread, please don't paste the same post in it over and over. It doesn't make your point louder.
Servers are not arbitrary groupings. Much like the [poor] apartment metaphor, they have actual physical limits. I cannot stress this enough as a person who works in that industry. I cringe every time you go "SE should just open it again." That would be a TERRIBLE idea. Balmung's already unstable with its current population and it's likely going to crash or get that horribly implemented zone-phasing again in a bunch of areas as returning players resub. People -really- cannot keep joining it.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Valde - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 10:21 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Man, this was supposed to simple, guys.
Balmung locked and we were all supposed to come together and put people somewhere else - temporary or not.
It was supposed to be a simple community effort to put people somewhere while Balmung is not an option and while people set up camp to forge a new server or pushed for an official <RP> tag or whatever.
It's turned into a bunch of people pushing their agendas and not listening. Telling people they are doing too much, telling people they are doing to little, fighting over whats the best server, fighting over "Balmung taking over" or "Balmung isn't doing anything" or "Balmung should be the only option" or "Mateus is a terrible option" or fighting over... I don't even KNOW what at this point?
This was supposed to be an endeavor to help
We all need to take a step back and look at what this is becoming.
It's such a shame.
What this has become is some outspoken individuals who have weak communication skills voicing fears and desires in a way that's causing conflict. That's it.
Despite this others are still going to continue to help. Despite this the server is going to remain locked. Good ol' Matty boy is going to be the best bet for fresh RPers for some time to come, and given the state of Balmung it's unlikely to see any stiff competition anytime soon. A good 3-6 months of no one being able to move onto the largest server and an expansion that's likely to bring old and new players back who might be willing to jump fresh and we're going to see some heavy population growth regardless.
RP is RP no matter where it's at. Balmung has its venomous loudmouths, Mateus will too and it'll thrive despite it. The best thing anyone can do to someone who's being a negative piece of flotsam is to ignore them.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Leggerless - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 01:43 AM)Erahsae Wrote: Ye gods.... we're already pointing people in your direction. Â Some are even running events for you. (*waves to Leggerless* Â He's running a grindstone over there.) Advice on how to make things stick. Â Advertising for you. Â
Huh?
I've been working on theorycrafting related items for FFXIV, not running events.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
EDIT: The only thing I've done really for Mateus is basically run some polls, paste some data, and... that's about it? It ain't much, but something.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 11:54 AM)Leggerless Wrote:(06-08-2017, 01:43 AM)Erah Wrote: Ye gods.... we're already pointing people in your direction. Â Some are even running events for you. (*waves to Leggerless* Â He's running a grindstone over there.) Advice on how to make things stick. Â Advertising for you. Â
Huh?
I've been working on theorycrafting related items for FFXIV, not running events.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
EDIT: The only thing I've done really for Mateus is basically run some polls, paste some data, and... that's about it? It ain't much, but something.
I think he meant Nodem running the Blood Shore, a Grindstone Event. (details here)
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Kellach Woods - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 10:21 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: This was supposed to be an endeavor to help
We all need to take a step back and look at what this is becoming.
It's such a shame.
And you expected it to become something different why?
Have you talked to the people here before?
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Leggerless - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 11:59 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:(06-08-2017, 11:54 AM)Leggerless Wrote:(06-08-2017, 01:43 AM)Erah Wrote: Ye gods.... we're already pointing people in your direction. Â Some are even running events for you. (*waves to Leggerless* Â He's running a grindstone over there.) Advice on how to make things stick. Â Advertising for you. Â
Huh?
I've been working on theorycrafting related items for FFXIV, not running events.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
EDIT: The only thing I've done really for Mateus is basically run some polls, paste some data, and... that's about it? It ain't much, but something.
I think he meant Nodem running the Blood Shore, a Grindstone Event. (details here)
Ohhh. Gotcha.
Anyways, I went through the trouble of pulling out one of my posts simulating the Grindstone a year or so back. If they're interested at all.
...Annnd I'm suddenly realizing I came across a blueprint for an event type. Lawl. Funny how science works. But yea, it basically gives a near-complete rundown of a GS from an engineering/simulation standpoint.
EDIT 2: Also, can someone hand me the Discord invite to these Mateus people?
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 12:01 PM)Leggerless Wrote:(06-08-2017, 11:59 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:(06-08-2017, 11:54 AM)Leggerless Wrote:(06-08-2017, 01:43 AM)Erah Wrote: Ye gods.... we're already pointing people in your direction. Â Some are even running events for you. (*waves to Leggerless* Â He's running a grindstone over there.) Advice on how to make things stick. Â Advertising for you. Â
Huh?
I've been working on theorycrafting related items for FFXIV, not running events.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
EDIT: The only thing I've done really for Mateus is basically run some polls, paste some data, and... that's about it? It ain't much, but something.
I think he meant Nodem running the Blood Shore, a Grindstone Event. (details here)
Ohhh. Gotcha.
Anyways, I went through the trouble of pulling out one of my posts simulating the Grindstone a year or so back. If they're interested at all.
...Annnd I'm suddenly realizing I came across a blueprint for an event type. Lawl. Funny how science works. But yea, it basically gives a near-complete rundown of a GS from an engineering/simulation standpoint.
EDIT 2: Also, can someone hand me the Discord invite to these Mateus people?
Mateus RP Hub Discord
For the RPM, you'll need to get invited in. That can be done in-game or in the hub discord.
RE: An Essay on the Balmung "Problem" - Ryslo Suramlo - 06-08-2017
(06-08-2017, 10:21 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Man, this was supposed to simple, guys.
Balmung locked and we were all supposed to come together and put people somewhere else - temporary or not.
It was supposed to be a simple community effort to put people somewhere while Balmung is not an option and while people set up camp to forge a new server or pushed for an official <RP> tag or whatever.
It's turned into a bunch of people pushing their agendas and not listening. Telling people they are doing too much, telling people they are doing to little, fighting over whats the best server, fighting over "Balmung taking over" or "Balmung isn't doing anything" or "Balmung should be the only option" or "Mateus is a terrible option" or fighting over... I don't even KNOW what at this point?
This was supposed to be an endeavor to help
We all need to take a step back and look at what this is becoming.
It's such a shame.
To be fair to everyone, the very first post in this thread wasn't the nicest way of getting an Idea Across. Though I am a proponent of voice conversations in these instances (less drama that way) we have to make due with written text. Now, don't get me wrong I see your point but Balmung is Closed. Many of us in this thread (not all of us but many) agree that we aren't going to depart Balmung but we certainly can offer some advice, and be supportive.Â
I think most of us just believe its unrealistic to /expect/ people to go to another server and dedicate so much time building that server up while our own love (Balmung) is waiting there. I personally have Obligations to a large Member Base and came to this thread to offer advice, its all I can do. I think that's all anyone here can do from Balmung (with some exceptions). The truth is, a Community is built by a Community. Often takes an individual doing the leg work and finding the strength to pull people together. I've actually never even seen (in any previous MMO) another Server needing to go to another Server to build it up. That blows my mind.Â
So I agree we can be extremely supportive and /do what we can/ but I really think its more dependent on people on a particular server pulling their weight, making waves happen that'll be the best and biggest impact. Mateus sounds like a great alternative for people to go and they should strongly consider consolidating themselves onto that server especially with Balmung being closed. One poster said it best, Balmung is Closed... So we can support Mateus by sending people there.. in the interim. When Balmung opens up again, if it does, then in that time we should have 2 Strong RP communities...
So.. Support Mateus (I agree with the Person I Quoted Sentiment) but do it within reason. We are all here to have fun and not compromise that for ourselves.. but there is no reason we can't Advise people to head over to Mateus if they ask ^_^ or offer friendly advise about organization, site development, PR approaches and what not.