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+--- Thread: FF15: Men or Dolls? (/showthread.php?tid=9361)
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Zyrusticae - 12-21-2014
The amusing thing about all this is that it's the reverse of the kind of bullshit female players have had to put up with for a long, long time.
That is to say, the guys are all very, very obviously made to be highly attractive, and in a big way, towards heterosexual female sensibilities. This makes some guys uncomfortable in the same way heavily sexualized women in games makes women uncomfortable. It's a bit of comeuppance and it is something I am highly appreciative of.
Of course, they then release Cidney who sports D-cup breasts spilling out of a push-up bra with an unzipped jacket and then all of that good will is undone, but...
At any rate, if your argument is that you want a more varied cast, why are you so heavily focused on the 'pretty boy' aspects of the cast as opposed to their homogeneity? It's a very telling choice of words.
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Clover - 12-21-2014
Let's all agree that everything comes down to different tastes and different cultures. To me, all Western main (and secondary) characters look exactly the same too.
Edit: Zyrus, wiser words have never been spoken *amused*.
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Artigan - 12-21-2014
I think it is a fair critique to say the cast is too dollish. If we are going to compare games I would say Dragon Age the series (yes even 2) had a variety of individuals that catered to many tastes.
Now anyone can also say, fairly, FF15 isn't for you. Nothing wrong with exclusivity.
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Oli! - 12-21-2014
I think their words / title were intended to be read as "am I alone in thinking that the cast of this newest installment focuses too much on visual attractiveness as opposed to varied, interesting character design, something which we have oft looked forward to in Final Fantasy for many years?"
And I think that's a fair complaint. Though the game's style seems drab in general to me anyway. Could they have stated their intent better? Sure, I guess so, but I don't think they're intentionally being a bigot or anything.
It's Kool guise.
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Artigan - 12-21-2014
(12-21-2014, 05:31 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: The amusing thing about all this is that it's the reverse of the kind of bullshit female players have had to put up with for a long, long time.
That is to say, the guys are all very, very obviously made to be highly attractive, and in a big way, towards heterosexual female sensibilities. This makes some guys uncomfortable in the same way heavily sexualized women in games makes women uncomfortable. It's a bit of comeuppance and it is something I am highly appreciative of.
Of course, they then release Cidney who sports D-cup breasts spilling out of a push-up bra with an unzipped jacket and then all of that good will is undone, but...
At any rate, if your argument is that you want a more varied cast, why are you so heavily focused on the 'pretty boy' aspects of the cast as opposed to their homogeneity? It's a very telling choice of words.
Because I care for realistic casts, and you are assuming that I am somehow unhinged or disturbed by such a pretty cast is an assumption.
Stop assuming my wants, intentions, or desires. Their is nothing telling other than what I've said or stated which is: too many dolls. Assumptions are logical fallacies. So stop assuming because you are becoming logically inconsistent and going off into smoke screens of gender normative, inserting red herrings of "Cidney" and "big breasted" and how women are by in large sexualized in media. Take your ideological rhetorical bullshit somewhere else. I have no issues if someone wants to objectify because we objectify all the time; individuals can either do so in healthy manners or not.Â
I never argued it is wrong or right to have this many "pretty people." I made a personal statement and voiced a critique: too many pretty boys. I can in fact have an issue with the design choice without having to bring morality into the picture. I can also have the same issues if all I see are big breasted females as the heroine line up, and say to myself: this cast isn't anything resembling life. It's just a bunch of pretty people catering to sex appeal, and fair enough I am not interested in such shallow games.
I used a gender to, shocker, define who and what I was talking about, and once again I used the word pretty to clarify who and what I was critiquing. You are turning pretty boy into a dysphemism and now throwing in ierrleveancies of not using "proper" wording of homogeneity? Get off, seriously, what the "fuck" are you going on about now?
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - crowmeleon - 12-21-2014
[youtube]0la5DBtOVNI[/youtube]
Theme song of thread.
Funny though I kinda saw this game in the opposite light. It's the most varied cast we've ever seen, in terms of humans. It's easy to create variety when you have 5 different species, and can just slap the same face on them all. But their facial structures, builds, and fashions are all different. Not as varied as I would like but a definite improvement over any of the other games, to me.Â
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130624153716/finalfantasy/images/9/9c/Final-Fantasy-XV-Main-Cast-CG.jpg
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Artigan - 12-21-2014
(12-21-2014, 06:04 PM)crowmeleon Wrote: [youtube]0la5DBtOVNI[/youtube]I am going to reserve my over all judgement on release, and wait and to see and hear the reviews about the characterizations, world, and plot.
Theme song of thread.
Funny though I kinda saw this game in the opposite light. It's the most varied cast we've ever seen, in terms of humans. It's easy to create variety when you have 5 different species, and can just slap the same face on them all. But their facial structures, builds, and fashions are all different. Not as varied as I would like but a definite improvement over any of the other games, to me.Â
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130624153716/finalfantasy/images/9/9c/Final-Fantasy-XV-Main-Cast-CG.jpg
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Clover - 12-21-2014
Sorry, I just want to add that Dragon Age games don't have a wide range of characters that gather to many tastes. All characters (even Fenris, who was an attempt at something different) look rough and bulky. And just for the record, I love the games, but I don't find the characters appealing in the slightest.
With this I want to say (again) that people need to learn that Western tastes aren't the truest, the one and only, and that judging Japanese characters for not meeting your Western standard is a silly, very silly thing.
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - K'nahli - 12-21-2014
(12-21-2014, 07:23 PM)Clover Wrote: With this I want to say (again) that people need to learn that Western tastes aren't the truest, the one and only, and that judging Japanese characters for not meeting your Western standard is a silly, very silly thing.
I don't think it was suggested that he didn't like these characters; just that there were so many in one game that it made it too unrealistic for his tastes. Nor do I think that he was implying that his personal views on what looks nice and what doesn't were better than the typical, eastern perspective - that is assuming that he even prefers the "rougher" look, I do not know if he specified.
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Naunet - 12-21-2014
It's kind of strange to me to characterize it as "Western" versus "Eastern", to be honest. I mean, "the West" brought to you the likes of NSync, Backstreet Boys, Justin Bieber, boy bands in general, many entertainers who capitalize on an adrogynous look, Orlando Bloom, young Leonardo DiCaprio, Blood Elves, Tolkein elves, what much of modern vampires have become, the original versions of Greek gods, Edward Cullen, and... probably a lot more, but I suck at recalling the kinds of name details I'd need to google them all up.
And in the East? Well, take a look at most Shounen manga/anime from Japan. That "bara" stuff, too. The heroes in Chinese action movies. Probably more, but I'm not really knowledgable enough on the details to speak in more than those broad strokes.
So... er, yeah. Sorry, the constant harping on "Eastern vs Western" as though it's some sort of Berlin Wall of aesthetic preferences is really getting to me. XD
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Oroban - 12-21-2014
I think the only thing that bothers me about his design, honestly bothers me, is the "eyes changing color when he uses his super special powers" bit. And that's more on the writing than the character design itself... (Well, that and giving him a silly name like Sky of the Night's Light, that just...what?)
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Naunet - 12-21-2014
(12-21-2014, 11:46 PM)Oroban Wrote: (Well, that and giving him a silly name like Sky of the Night's Light, that just...what?)
I honestly know next to nothing about FFXV, but that is hilarious. XD
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Oroban - 12-21-2014
(12-21-2014, 11:54 PM)Naunet Wrote:Well, technically it's Noctis Lucis Caelum, because hey let's give him a Latin name with a silly meaning because it SOUNDS COOL. Also we'll make him LOOK COOL. And he's a psychic who can teleport and use telekinetic sword battles with his color changing eyes that can see when you'll die. It's like...so many shounen cliches rolled into one that it will either be really amusing or amusingly bad.(12-21-2014, 11:46 PM)Oroban Wrote: (Well, that and giving him a silly name like Sky of the Night's Light, that just...what?)
I honestly know next to nothing about FFXV, but that is hilarious. XD
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - TheLastCandle - 12-22-2014
I don't even care. I'm going to play the hell out of this game. The gameplay looks like Kingdom Hearts meets Final Fantasy and, story be damned, it looks hella fun.
RE: FF15: Men or Dolls? - Artigan - 12-22-2014
(12-21-2014, 07:23 PM)Clover Wrote: Sorry, I just want to add that Dragon Age games don't have a wide range of characters that gather to many tastes. All characters (even Fenris, who was an attempt at something different) look rough and bulky. And just for the record, I love the games, but I don't find the characters appealing in the slightest.
With this I want to say (again) that people need to learn that Western tastes aren't the truest, the one and only, and that judging Japanese characters for not meeting your Western standard is a silly, very silly thing.
Anyone from any culture can critique and find faults in design choices. You shouldn't assume an individual is looking at a product through an ethnocentric lens.
Not true, from Dragon Age Origins, Awakening, 2, and Inquisition the party, cast, or heroes and heroines have been varied and diverse: elderly, young, pretty, handsome, rugged, beautiful, masculine, effeminate, cute, rough, scarred, ugly, and so forth, and that goes for Protagonists and Antagonists as well. Fenris is not the entirety or an acute representation of Thedas. Stop being disingenuous and misrepresenting the series.
You certainly don't have to agree with anyone on anything, but you also shouldn't expect anyone to swallow your nonsense of "don't judge things from your personal perspective."
No one in this entire thread said: Western desires or wants are the "truest." No one here has tried opening up a Salon full of snub Persians saying how art "must" be done. Get off this ridiculous tangent.Â
I can, anyone in fact, judge any product, art, or something created for public consumption and state my thoughts on such objects. If I like or dislike a product or art because it doesn't meet a standard that is fair.
No one here stated what is the correct way to "art."
Are some of you purposely putting up fallacies of red herrings, non sequiturs, and complete irrelevancies, or do you honestly think in such delusional fashions?