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+--- Thread: General Lore Questions (/showthread.php?tid=4766)
RE: General Lore Questions - L'ohba Tia - 08-20-2017
There are/were primals in Othard. It's where Garlemald first encountered them. Yugiri didn't know what a primal was until she saw Leviathan, and then confirmed that the Domans had encountered things like him before. So they've at least been as far east as Doma. It's very possible for Xaela to have encountered primals before, even if they weren't called primals.
RE: General Lore Questions - LiadansWhisper - 08-20-2017
(08-20-2017, 04:38 PM)Lohba Tia Wrote: There are/were primals in Othard. It's where Garlemald first encountered them. Yugiri didn't know what a primal was until she saw Leviathan, and then confirmed that the Domans had encountered things like him before. So they've at least been as far east as Doma. It's very possible for Xaela to have encountered primals before, even if they weren't called primals.
It's honestly a shame that Yugiri never tells us what they actually called Primals in Doma.
RE: General Lore Questions - Unnamed Mercenary - 08-20-2017
(08-20-2017, 05:08 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(08-20-2017, 04:38 PM)L Wrote: There are/were primals in Othard. It's where Garlemald first encountered them. Yugiri didn't know what a primal was until she saw Leviathan, and then confirmed that the Domans had encountered things like him before. So they've at least been as far east as Doma. It's very possible for Xaela to have encountered primals before, even if they weren't called primals.
It's honestly a shame that Yugiri never tells us what they actually called Primals in Doma.
Maybe they use the Garlean term because of the occupation?
RE: General Lore Questions - LiadansWhisper - 08-20-2017
(08-20-2017, 05:11 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Maybe they use the Garlean term because of the occupation?
Oh, that's a good point. I hadn't thought about that.
Ostensibly, Garlemald made few, if any, incursions into the Steppe. Primals are normally summoned when the tribes that worship them are under threat and pleading for divine intervention. Perhaps the Xaela have never reached that point as a whole because Garlemald never threatened them on that level?
RE: General Lore Questions - Unnamed Mercenary - 08-20-2017
(08-20-2017, 05:25 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(08-20-2017, 05:11 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Maybe they use the Garlean term because of the occupation?
Oh, that's a good point. Â I hadn't thought about that.
Ostensibly, Garlemald made few, if any, incursions into the Steppe. Â Primals are normally summoned when the tribes that worship them are under threat and pleading for divine intervention. Â Perhaps the Xaela have never reached that point as a whole because Garlemald never threatened them on that level?
Well we see with the beast tribes that many believe summoning their god is wrong. And it's usually in desperation or a last-effort when is summoned. Primals also were incredibly hard and difficult to summon due to the amounts of crystals/aether/faith required. This mostly changed during the battle of Silvertear Lake when a LOT more aether started gushing out at and into the land. (This is also what causes a lot of that funky weather like gloom in Mor Dhona, Umbral Static, etc.) Eorzea was always very aether-rich, but now it's more like it's flooded in aether. And this means easier primal summoning. Which then means more tempered followers. And that means MORE primals. And MORE followers, and so on.
Chances are, the Xaela never had that happen.
RE: General Lore Questions - Seye Qhesu - 08-20-2017
I don't see Xaela trying to call on any primals/Gods to save them. They were made for war, per their story, weren't they?
RE: General Lore Questions - Unnamed Mercenary - 08-20-2017
(08-20-2017, 06:38 PM)Rowena Everstone Wrote: I don't see Xaela trying to call on any primals/Gods to save them. They were made for war, per their story, weren't they?
Exactly. They'd probably see it as weak or insulting to rely on such a power, if I had to guess. But they'd probably still have some sort of term for it.
RE: General Lore Questions - Arashin Kujqai - 08-20-2017
I was mainly curious because a friend of mine insinuated that primals are at least common knowledge across the lands considering tribes can be outside the steppe, primals could even come over the steppe maybe?(assuming there's more primals out there that wouldn't just be irregularly summoned like Susano was). If people of Doma at least had some concept of them as Kami, Garleans as Eikons, Eorzeans as Primals.... I questioned if Xaela even have a take, regardless if they fear or worship them as to just "what" they are or are perceived as through their tribes. I'm sure some tribes like the Kha that travel and learn culture through other lands take on the names too, so they could easily incorporate existing terminology just through travel alone. However the au ra we've seen so far(not counting Mide... which now that I type this, I should look through Alexander's questline to see if she calls them any different) have mostly only been in the steppe alone as if they have little to do with other lands at all, let alone worrying about powers across a continent or an accidental summoning in the Ruby Sea.
Even if the Xaela themselves don't rely on higher powers, I was overall curious if they'd named them or had any terms for unknown deities they don't care about. I guess in short the answer for this one is one of those "we have yet to find out just yet" so its still up in the air?
EDIT: After digging through Alexander quests and reading Mide's dialogue alone, she does refer to it as a primal but only a bit further into the questline after she's heard it multiple times prior. So that may just imply she's been places considering she's a treasure hunter and picked up on the title for it along with whoever else did. However prior she often refers to it as a giant or something depicting what it looks like for metaphors, walking castle, utopia of scholars, etc.. So my best bet atm for Au Ra tribes if they ever saw a primal first hand would be to just describe it according to what it looks to be. Titan a golem, Levi a serpent, or an element + an animal they may know of. Until otherwise adopting whatever someone else describes/names them as, Kami could be the most likely with the steppe neighboring the lands that use the term. Or just using a title in the context with whoever talks about them first as to what they call them.
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 08-21-2017
The thing with Mide's merry band of mischief makers is that for a start they roam the Hinterlands where they summon Alexander, which means that they left the Steppes at some point, or are even the offspring of xaela that migrated away even before (as we know there was several xaela migrations in Eorzea). It's hard to tell how much of their culture and traditions they retained and how much of the local customs they took, including the word "primal".
It's also interesting to note that they never refer to it as a primal in the flashbacks if my memory serves me well. Mide only does it in the present time when she now knows exactly what it is. In their grand plan though, they don't seem to me to summon Alex as a primal in their mind, but as the ultimate sanctuary through a complicated codex of rules and mechanics that only a few chosen can decipher. It was designed as a contraption first and foremost, and also keep in mind that Travanchet was involved with the cursed Horn of Seal Rock. He didn't exactly sold the story as "hey guys, take that and use it to summon your primal would you?
All in all I think there is way too many variables in the case of Mide to use her as a proper example for that.
(08-20-2017, 05:11 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:(08-20-2017, 05:08 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(08-20-2017, 04:38 PM)L Wrote: There are/were primals in Othard. It's where Garlemald first encountered them. Yugiri didn't know what a primal was until she saw Leviathan, and then confirmed that the Domans had encountered things like him before. So they've at least been as far east as Doma. It's very possible for Xaela to have encountered primals before, even if they weren't called primals.
It's honestly a shame that Yugiri never tells us what they actually called Primals in Doma.
Maybe they use the Garlean term because of the occupation?
It's hard to tell but the kojin seem to call Susano a kami when it gets summoned (or a greater Kami, greater than mere elementals?). Or at least take him for such initially.
RE: General Lore Questions - Caspar - 08-21-2017
I don't think Kami is an equivalent term given that it seems to be used for a lot of different entities of varying supernatural importance, as is the case with the term, rather than specifically Primals. The Kojin probably don't know how Susanoo differs from other things they consider Kami, only that he is particularly powerful and worthy of worship above others. The entirety of the scene in which he appears is bizarre, as they don't intentionally summon him, there doesn't appear to be any catalyst for his appearance, he just kinda shows up and wants to party. Then again, that's how Susanoo is...
RE: General Lore Questions - LiadansWhisper - 08-21-2017
(08-21-2017, 03:36 AM)Valence Wrote: It's hard to tell but the kojin seem to call Susano a kami when it gets summoned (or a greater Kami, greater than mere elementals?). Or at least take him for such initially.
Sure. But, um, the Kojin are neither Au Ra nor Xaela. So I'm not sure there would even be a correlation.
RE: General Lore Questions - Sounsyy - 08-21-2017
Because Susano is one of the thousands of Kami worshipped by the Yanxians and Hingans. In the same way that the western beast tribes all worship their deities, the primals, which they believe to be the primal essences of creation. We've adopted the term "primal" and misuse it to mean "any summoned deity" similar to how the Garleans adopted and misuse the term "Eikon" to mean something similar: "false god." So the two terms aren't mutually exclusive. Susano is a Kami, but because he was actually brought from belief into reality makes him also a (airquotes) "primal" because we Eorzeans now associate a term once used to describe beast tribe beliefs, to now mean summoned gods, because the beast tribes', the primals, were the first to be successfully summoned in Eorzea.
The Lord of the Revel Journal Wrote:...summoning forth from the aether the great kami Susano─a primal by another name.
Fernehalwes Wrote:I can mention why primals are referred to as primals, though. It is not because they are underdeveloped, younger deities, but because the beast tribes tend to believe that they were the ones who created them, the world, and everything. They are the primal forms of existence.
EDIT:
Lorecast 9 Wrote:Gamer Escape: How did the summoning of Susano work? He kind of came out of nowhere, there! If I had to guess, I’d say the Magatama acted a bit like Zantetsuken, but that’s the best I’ve got.
Koji Fox: This one was in the forum questions, as well, but I can answer you guys here. Actually, there’s nothing new going on, at all. It’s the same way primals have always been summoned: strong belief, the power of the crystals—aether within the crystals consolidates to make a manifestation. Until now, the beast tribes have been like, “Okay, we need Ifrit NOW!†“We need Garuda NOW!†and the belief and aether in that area would result in a manifestation of that belief. With Susano, there was no intention, but everything else just fell into place. There was a ritual in a sense—intense belief, aether latent in the treasures, and even though it wasn’t intended, it just sort of happened. It wasn’t a mistake, just happenstance.
RE: General Lore Questions - T'errin - 08-21-2017
I think Susano is also a poor choice of discussion on the topic of what Domans would call an impersonation of their gods, since the way he came to be was very different from how most Eorzean primals did. Nevermind the fact that Susano seems to not be an impersonation, but the actual kami Susano.
I think we just need to wait and see if we encounter more Far Eastern primals.
Also on a different topic I really wish SE would figure out what they want Doma to be, cuz having Chinpan and Japan is getting weird.
RE: General Lore Questions - Gegenji - 08-21-2017
(08-21-2017, 11:27 AM)Terrin Wrote: I think Susano is also a poor choice of discussion on the topic of what Domans would call an impersonation of their gods, since the way he came to be was very different from how most Eorzean primals did. Nevermind the fact that Susano seems to not be an impersonation, but the actual kami Susano.
Is it really, though? How is his summoning any different than using Nidhogg's eyes and the worship/anguish of a people to become King Thordan or Shinryuu? Ancient items filled with aetheric power and a source to draw worship and shape from.
One really has to wonder if the gods exist at all (beyond perhaps Hydaelyn and Zodiark), leaving any that are "summoned" to be effectively Primals - beings summoned into the world via aether and desire.
RE: General Lore Questions - PhantasticPanda - 08-21-2017
(08-21-2017, 11:27 AM)Terrin Wrote: I think Susano is also a poor choice of discussion on the topic of what Domans would call an impersonation of their gods, since the way he came to be was very different from how most Eorzean primals did. Nevermind the fact that Susano seems to not be an impersonation, but the actual kami Susano.
I think we just need to wait and see if we encounter more Far Eastern primals.
Also on a different topic I really wish SE would figure out what they want Doma to be, cuz having Chinpan and Japan is getting weird.
His summoning or idea behind it (the objects of worship coming together to form Susano) , is similar to Odin. It's not through actual prayer summoning that brings them into being but the very magic that's retained in those items. Though it's still somewhat of a mystery where and when Odin first came to be and how. But he is referred to as a primal despite having no link to a beast tribe probably due to his aether drain in his surroundings. So it's not a completely unfamiliar concept. San