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+--- Thread: General Lore Questions (/showthread.php?tid=4766)
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 11-08-2017
The summoning of a faery is more complicated than a simple carbuncle. It involves actual anciant nymian tablet texts and sigils (as seen in the SCH quest), and a deeper understanding of the nymian tactics described inside. That makes faery summoning more of a lost art indeed, knowing that most old nymian scholars used to have faery companions.
BLM would tend to burn themselves to death without their crystal, but WhM can't simply access the magic (Succor/White Magic) as taught by the elementals to the padjals. Wether this was the case or not for anciant Amdapori magic is left to speculation I think. I suspect that old Amdapori White Magic might differ slightly from the one controled and granted by the elementals to the padjals of the Twelveswood.
It is unclear for some jobs if they really need their crystals as a key for their art to work or not. It's definitely the case for BLM and MCH for example, but rather ambiguous for WhM, DRK, and probably not necessary for jobs like Nin, BRD, etc.
In any case, a soul crystal is a repository of skills and memories not that dissimilar to starwars Holocrons, that will only open to the people with the sufficient base knowledge and affinity to the art. Some of them, like BLM, also act as essential keys to the job for it to work properly.
RE: General Lore Questions - LiadansWhisper - 11-08-2017
(11-08-2017, 05:31 AM)Valence Wrote: White mages also draw their aether from the planet, and wether their method is more gentle or if the soulstone is also mandatory just to even cast white magic spells, is left to speculation. I suspect the later considering the WhM 30-50 quests, where the soulstone has to be specifically bestowed by elementals to the WoL so that they can access the arcanes of that magic, like padjal do.
This is never explicitly stated. In fact, in the confines of the original questline, which is the only point at which the soulstone is even addressed, the soulstone does exactly two things: 1) It tells the Padjal that you've been chosen by A-Towa-Cant and thus they have to train you and 2) it very occasionally allows you to learn certain techniques without them being explicitly taught to you. In the 51-60 questline, it occasionally teaches you new techniques, but is never explicitly addressed within the quests themselves. In the 61-70 questline, it teaches you one technique at the end of the questline, and never once comes up.
(11-08-2017, 07:05 AM)Stormblade Wrote: You mention that BLM and WHM can't really use their spells without suiciding if they don't have the job crystal,
While it is true that Black Mages literally explode if they try to channel magic without a soulstone, there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that lack of a soulstone would cause any White Mage an issue in casting their spells, much less kill them. The only issue it would seem to pose is that the Padjal of the Twelveswood probably wouldn't be okay with you knowing the ancient art, and you'd have to learn more of the spell techniques the old fashioned way (instead of automagically picking them up).
(11-08-2017, 07:58 AM)Valence Wrote: but WhM can't simply access the magic (Succor/White Magic) as taught by the elementals to the padjals. Wether this was the case or not for anciant Amdapori magic is left to speculation I think. I suspect that old Amdapori White Magic might differ slightly from the one controled and granted by the elementals to the padjals of the Twelveswood.
I'm pretty sure this is pure speculation and head canon on your part, Valence. There is nothing that I can recall in the quests to back up your speculation. I can't think of a single place where this is mentioned. Do you have a specific quote where it is stated that White Mages cannot use White Magic (Padjali or otherwise) without a Soul Stone?
RE: General Lore Questions - Gegenji - 11-08-2017
It should be noted that "modern day" Arcanima is a descendant of both Nymian Scholasticism (Scholaring? Scholology? Scholomancy? Scholomance?) and Allagan Summoning techniques. Which is why the base class can flow into either one from the advanced jobs from a lore standpoint. The Carbuncle, comparatively, is Arcanima's attempts at creating a Fairy or Egi. It's pretty primitive in comparison to the other two types.
If I recall correctly, a Fairy is actually a full-blown elemental rather than just an aetheric construct like a Carbuncle. The Nymians somehow managed to learn to create them - and the reason why you kind of need a soul crystal as a SCH is that creating new ones is a very lost art and the existing ones are bound to these crystals. So, unless you learned how to create a wholly new one or extract an existing one from a crystal by the Tonberries (which I suppose is an angle you could take since they're the transformed denizens of Nym and you already learn advanced Scholar techniques from one starting at level 50), there isn't going to be much of a way to just... summon one without a soul crystal.
RE: General Lore Questions - Sounsyy - 11-08-2017
I'm at work, so quickly dropping in.
Faeries are man-made elementals bound to the soul crystals of Nymian scholars. So the soul crystal is kind of a requirement. It's how faeries have memories and maintain their personality over the ages, even when summoned by a new scholar. Compare this to modern carbuncles who, despite being made from the same few gemstones, exhibit ranging personalities depending on the individual caster.
I've put together a post that outlines the role each individual soul crystal plays in it's respective job here!
More lore on the different schools of magic and their aether sources can be found here!
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 11-08-2017
(11-08-2017, 09:28 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(11-08-2017, 05:31 AM)Valence Wrote: White mages also draw their aether from the planet, and wether their method is more gentle or if the soulstone is also mandatory just to even cast white magic spells, is left to speculation. I suspect the later considering the WhM 30-50 quests, where the soulstone has to be specifically bestowed by elementals to the WoL so that they can access the arcanes of that magic, like padjal do.
This is never explicitly stated. Â In fact, in the confines of the original questline, which is the only point at which the soulstone is even addressed, the soulstone does exactly two things: 1) It tells the Padjal that you've been chosen by A-Towa-Cant and thus they have to train you and 2) it very occasionally allows you to learn certain techniques without them being explicitly taught to you. In the 51-60 questline, it occasionally teaches you new techniques, but is never explicitly addressed within the quests themselves. Â In the 61-70 questline, it teaches you one technique at the end of the questline, and never once comes up.
I may be at a loss as to what is your point here? I never said the contrary? I actually said that it's very ambiguous for WhM if the soulstone is absolutely required or not.
(11-08-2017, 09:28 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(11-08-2017, 07:58 AM)Valence Wrote: but WhM can't simply access the magic (Succor/White Magic) as taught by the elementals to the padjals. Wether this was the case or not for anciant Amdapori magic is left to speculation I think. I suspect that old Amdapori White Magic might differ slightly from the one controled and granted by the elementals to the padjals of the Twelveswood.
I'm pretty sure this is pure speculation and head canon on your part, Valence. Â There is nothing that I can recall in the quests to back up your speculation. Â I can't think of a single place where this is mentioned. Â Do you have a specific quote where it is stated that White Mages cannot use White Magic (Padjali or otherwise) without a Soul Stone?
I think this is a misunderstanding. In the questline, it is pretty clear that you wouldn't do any white magic without A-Towa Cant's blessing and thus, elemental blessing, bestowing you a soulstone in the process. This doesn't mean that the soulstone is the key, thus why I specified somewhere else in my post that it's ambiguous for jobs like WhM. The gatelock is on the sharing of knowledge, and not on the job crystal per se (but maybe it also is, see Sounsyy's link on soulstones, it could be interpretated either way).
But the fact remain that to become a white mage, you have to be chosen by the Elementals and their padjali friendos. Period. The only other solution was briefly mentionned by KojiFox as a dirty way to do it, and as far as I know we don't know more about that yet.
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 11-08-2017
My mistake for the faeries, I totally forgot about that part stating that they are stored and bound into their soulstones.
(11-08-2017, 09:34 AM)Gegenji Wrote: If I recall correctly, a Fairy is actually a full-blown elemental rather than just an aetheric construct like a Carbuncle.
A carbuncle is already part of the elemental genus, if I'm not mistaken (need to take a look for confirmation in the lorebook since i'm at work, but I'm pretty sure it is the case). As I said, one has a way higher spiritual and intelligence elevation than the other (faery vs carbuncle).
Worth to be noted, the elemental genus is pretty wide and can encompass many, many things. Including spriggans, again, if I'm not mistaken.
Edit: And I did the confusion again. Spriggans are soulkins, but classified as such for dubious religious reasons while they actually share many similarities with sprites/faeries and elementals and stuff. Anyway. Elementals are elementals, as well as carbuncles, faeries, sprites, plasmoids, egis, etc.
RE: General Lore Questions - Yian Kutku - 11-08-2017
As a quick note, Summoners also require a soul crystal.
![[Image: s409CZ6.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/s409CZ6.jpg)
It's not mentioned why Summoners need a soul crystal. Just that it's a requirement.
RE: General Lore Questions - Kallera - 11-08-2017
What sort of instruction do DRK instructors give to a prospective student?
RE: General Lore Questions - Gegenji - 11-08-2017
(11-08-2017, 12:35 PM)Yian Kutku Wrote: As a quick note, Summoners also require a soul crystal.
It's not mentioned why Summoners need a soul crystal. Just that it's a requirement.
Perhaps it's for the same reason why a Fairy is linked to a Scholar crystal? It's to record the aetheric energy of the Primal so that it can be used to generate a consistent Egi shape. Or something like that?
RE: General Lore Questions - Stormblade - 11-08-2017
So, looking at Sounsyy's link, I think this answers my faerie question:
---
MCKF: “Yes, the second one. Fairies again, while they fall under the taxonomy of elementals, they are actually beings that were created. They did not exist before. The Scholar would take the energies and elements from around them and would basically create these beings that were made of the elements.â€
Q: “Those are bound to the soul crystal then and passed from one person to the next where carbuncle is more one per person. Very cool.â€
---
So a Carbuncle is created by an individual Arcanist by carving diagrams into a gemstone (ruby, topaz, etc), and each arcanist's Carbuncle is slightly different and personalized to them. So your Carbuncle would remember what you told it a week ago, even if you had unsummoned and resummoned it a dozen times, but no other arcanist's Carbuncle would know that info, because their personality and memory is bound into the gem.
So the Scholar's Soulstone would be a more complex version of that, able to house the presumably more complicated diagrams and formulae needed to create a Faerie. Since they're passed down from Scholar to Scholar, the process of making a Faerie is probably one that takes a long time and a lot of skill/knowledge. It also means the Faeries have stronger individual personalities, since they're far older than the average Carbuncle, and longer memories, for the same reason.
So making a new Faerie would probably be both a lost art and something that would consume an entire lifetime of effort, only to be passed down to one's students. Oh well.
At least I've learned that I should be able to personalize my Carbuncle and teach her tricks, since each one is a unique entity.
RE: General Lore Questions - Kieron Lohengrin - 11-08-2017
(11-08-2017, 04:31 PM)Kallera Wrote: What sort of instruction do DRK instructors give to a prospective student?
Level 30-50 DRK jobquests have you learn about anger and hatred against injustice, along with the danger of getting consumed by that self-righteous rage.
50-60 quests have moogles teaching you the importance of selflessness and having people to protect.
60-70 quests teach the importance of mercy, forgiveness, and giving hope to others. You duel Ser Ompagne, Sidurgu's old mentor, as part of the process.
Overall, a fully realized dark knight is still chivalrous but pragmatic. The 30-70 quests taken as a whole are all about balancing your relentlessness with your compassion.
RE: General Lore Questions - Vyce - 11-13-2017
Reading all this fairy lore got me excited. I've always RPed Solmund as having a fairy much like Selene in ability but with a unique personality. I'd say that as an international tradesman it is not impossible that he would have acquired it perhaps through black market dealings and paid a grand fortune for it. The lore doesnt seem to state (unlike BLM) that the WoL has the only one, and as Nym was once a nation it can be assume that they are not impossible to get but -near- impossible to find.
My headcanon is that if found they would be extraordinarily valuable especially if the fairy within chooses to reveal herself to you, which I'm pretty sure she does not have to. I also have headcanon that since the WoL is the first -recorded- wielder of a fairy in ages, it can be inferred that either the other existing soulstones that might have been found remained dormant up until the WoL came in contact with Eos, OR other Scholars in the world have remained silent and hidden. Again this is headcanon.
I do want confirmation on the magic though. From what I remember, all of the spell learned by the WoL are taught to him in increments by Eos but all in the same location. From the questline, is it explicitly stated that one must go there to unlock the abilities?
RE: General Lore Questions - Valence - 11-14-2017
BLM WoL isn't the only one soulstoneÂ
RE: General Lore Questions - Mermaid - 11-14-2017
(11-13-2017, 02:47 PM)Vyce Wrote: I do want confirmation on the magic though. From what I remember, all of the spell learned by the WoL are taught to him in increments by Eos but all in the same location. From the questline, is it explicitly stated that one must go there to unlock the abilities?
The idea behind us going to different places in ARR to unlock the spells was that Lily (the faerie tied to the WoL's soulstone) had lost her memories and we were taking her places to help her remember.
Can't really remember how HW flavored us learning our spells. I want to say it was Surito Carito teaching us?
SB makes everything screwy in regards to that since they decided to just give you most of your skills instead of tying them to quests. You can headcanon that part however you want. If I remember correctly, the last spell is actually taught to us by Lilac (the faerie tied to Setoto's father's soulstone).
RE: General Lore Questions - Vyce - 11-15-2017
(11-14-2017, 05:28 AM)Valence Wrote: BLM WoL isn't the only one soulstoneÂ
Last I was aware, the Sha((n))totto was the only remaining BLM soulstone. Maybe recent lore has adjusted that, but it was very heavily debated in 2015 that on top being completely illegal to practice Black and White magics, one had to at least come in contact with that specific stone to do it, if not have it on their person to prevent self destruction.