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+--- Thread: [Discussion] Your thoughts on jump potions? (/showthread.php?tid=17831)
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Kilieit - 12-16-2016
Maybe the implementation of the level-jump potion to the rest of the regions will imply the creation of level 30 / 50 entries to the Hall of the Novice like I've wanted since the Hall of the Novice was introduced... :Ic
(My hopes aren't high, but I'd really love that to be a thing. 30 and 50 are really the places where the complexity and difficulty of both your abilities, and the situations you use them in, step up. At sync from 15, Novice Hall can't teach you about so much stuff - aggro dumps, tank swaps (+ xclassed Provoke), combat resurrections (+ xclassed Swiftcast)...)
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Edda - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 02:08 PM)McBeef Wrote: My only negative feeling about it, is that if it's really such an issue, just give new players the option to skip the MSQ for free.This.
Why charge someone extra money because you're realizing there are flaws in your game design.
If the problem is quest bloat and just overall game design, charging people to 'skip all that' is stupid as all hell. Doesn't even matter how expensive they are - 5, 10, 20, nobody should have to pay to get past the drawn out and monotonous parts of the game.
Condense the MSQ and cut out all the filler fetch quests (this would take a crap ton of work though so that will never happen). Lock expansion content behind level and not MSQ progress. Remove MSQ requirements entirely. Or, alternatively, gate stuff behind only the x.0 MSQ. Allow people the option to do x.1 and on MSQ if they want, but a quick summary and an option to bypass slogging through 10 extra hours of drawn out story. I don't know. Something. Anything. Anything but 20$ jump potions.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Silmanos - 12-16-2016
Honestly I dislike the idea of jump potions, what is the point of playing a story driven game if you are skipping through the story? Getting through the MSQ is so laughably easy the only thing that slows you down is the queues. I've gotten a character from 1-60 in three weeks with casual play and stopping to RP. Granted I was a healer so my queues were really short. Its taking a bit longer for my next alt that I am going through on. The biggest issue is all of the things that you have to do for those who can't afford the jump potions or don't want to. All of a sudden that 15 min queue for Shiva HM becomes a 45 minute queue time, and those without the funds aside from the amount to pay 15/mo are left with the sit around till you are dead in a queue or just quit. I can tell you how most will respond to that.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Virella - 12-16-2016
Honestly? They could add these (story) skip potions as the first month veteran rewards imo. I think that would solve the issue quite quickly as well.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - McBeefâ„¢ - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 05:58 PM)Edda Wrote:(12-16-2016, 02:08 PM)McBeef Wrote: My only negative feeling about it, is that if it's really such an issue, just give new players the option to skip the MSQ for free.This.
Why charge someone extra money because you're realizing there are flaws in your game design.
If the problem is quest bloat and just overall game design, charging people to 'skip all that' is stupid as all hell. Doesn't even matter how expensive they are - 5, 10, 20, nobody should have to pay to get past the drawn out and monotonous parts of the game.
Condense the MSQ and cut out all the filler fetch quests (this would take a crap ton of work though so that will never happen). Lock expansion content behind level and not MSQ progress. Remove MSQ requirements entirely. Or, alternatively, gate stuff behind only the x.0 MSQ. Allow people the option to do x.1 and on MSQ if they want, but a quick summary and an option to bypass slogging through 10 extra hours of drawn out story. I don't know. Something. Anything. Anything but 20$ jump potions.
Agreed.Â
I don't have a problem with people not having to do the horribly dumb and long 2.0-2.5 MSQ. It is good in parts, but those parts could be distilled down to a few hours of questing and cutscenes.Â
Selling the jump potions is better than nothing but it's a lazy solution, and implies that the MSQ is a penance. A tax on poorer players.Â
It's like a F2P game tactic where you have to wait 4 hours before you can do the next fun thing, but you can spend money to get it faster. If they have any respect for the design of their leveling and questing process they shouldn't treat it like this.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Cassandra - 12-16-2016
Kilieit
Maybe the implementation of the level-jump potion to the rest of the regions will imply the creation of level 30 / 50 entries to the Hall of the Novice like I've wanted since the Hall of the Novice was introduced... :Ic
(My hopes aren't high, but I'd really love that to be a thing. 30 and 50 are really the places where the complexity and difficulty of both your abilities, and the situations you use them in, step up. At sync from 15, Novice Hall can't teach you about so much stuff - aggro dumps, tank swaps (+ xclassed Provoke), combat resurrections (+ xclassed Swiftcast)...)
They actually have considered a Hall of the Intermediate, which would specifically focus on learning your rotation. While I doubt they teach a raid equivalent one, it'd at least be better than what we have now. With any hope, they do something similar to WoW's Battlegrounds. After using their version of a skip, you're immediately tossed into an area and unlock your skills by using them. You're then shown how to execute them properly and have to do so or you've allowed to start playing.
(12-16-2016, 05:58 PM)Edda Wrote:(12-16-2016, 02:08 PM)McBeef Wrote: My only negative feeling about it, is that if it's really such an issue, just give new players the option to skip the MSQ for free.This.
Why charge someone extra money because you're realizing there are flaws in your game design.
If the problem is quest bloat and just overall game design, charging people to 'skip all that' is stupid as all hell. Doesn't even matter how expensive they are - 5, 10, 20, nobody should have to pay to get past the drawn out and monotonous parts of the game.
Condense the MSQ and cut out all the filler fetch quests (this would take a crap ton of work though so that will never happen). Lock expansion content behind level and not MSQ progress. Remove MSQ requirements entirely. Or, alternatively, gate stuff behind only the x.0 MSQ. Allow people the option to do x.1 and on MSQ if they want, but a quick summary and an option to bypass slogging through 10 extra hours of drawn out story. I don't know. Something. Anything. Anything but 20$ jump potions.
Because they can. No company will ever provide something like this without a cost. It effectively allows you to skip potentially months of progress. In some sense, Square is ensuring they collect a sub free equivalent to what someone might have paid had they leveled the slow way.
Nonetheless, I am against any adjustments to ARR and Heavensward due to the cost involved. They have a finite amount of resources and I'd prefer the majority goes to new content in Stormblood, not improving to stuff I'll never even see unless I level an alt. More than likely, they'll gift us a free one with the expansion similar to Legion.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - McBeefâ„¢ - 12-16-2016
I mean, yes they can charge for it, and yes I get the logic of lost sub time...
But there is always an opportunity cost, that of the person who is excited to play with their friend, and then realizes they have the unenviable choice of paying ~100$ plus subscription fee (game plus jumps) or not actually being able to try endgame stuff with their friend for months.
I've been playing a lot of pre-abbyssia FFXI lately (which is why I haven't been posting much one here). And while that game has the same issues, there are lots of reasons to level with your friends, and most of the quests are group ones that you can help each other with.
I just think it's a shortsighted decision on their part.To charge for this rather than attempt to fix it in some way. I think they'd make more money in the long run from subs, if players had a way to quickly get to level 50/60 and play with their friends.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Cassandra - 12-16-2016
I don't disagree. Hence why I suspect we'll be given one for free with the expansion. The cost aspect will likely be more for people who want to level multiple jobs/alts and to prevent RMT abuse, all while making a profit. Even if they didn't offer a free one, you'd be surprised just how many people are willing to pay just to avoid the horrible grind to endgame. The number of people I've come across both in game and on Reddit basically saying "I'd pay anything to skip those god awful fetch quests," is a little... surprising.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Leggerless - 12-16-2016
Honestly? I would love a jump potion. I don't think I'd stomach the thought of leveling other jobs i'll never play again outside of leveling (ESPECIALLY with the so-far-unpredictable job formula changes) unless:
1. I'd have to for optimization.
2. I need to figure out stuff for theorycrafting purposes.
There's also the fact some people who already leveled 1-60 for a job... still don't know how the job works. The people that won't bother to learn their class won't magically start all of a sudden because of a jump potion. Doesn't work that way.
Now, would I prefer a solution where it's something like "Purchase the upcoming expansion and get a free jump potion" or even "Your first month's sub comes with a jump potion?" Absolutely. Most people will have a single class they'll play/like the most/main, so they can use it for that job to level up (conversely, they can go past the story stuff and start on 4.0 questing with their peeps too).
Edit: Also, the 4.0 jobs you cannot use a jump potion for. That's what the article appears to imply.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Sig - 12-17-2016
As a grown adult with finite game time and a ton of obligations, I am very excited about the possibility of jump potions and believe they will greatly benefit roleplayers (especially those with limited schedules and multiple characters).Â
I believe the concerns about a skill gap between new and old players are greatly overstated due to the relative simplicity of the game. The proposed prices are slightly steep, but are completely worth the return on the investment if a player simply wants to make a new character or catch up quickly to enjoy time with friends.
Long overdue!
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Kellach Woods - 12-17-2016
(12-15-2016, 11:30 AM)Val Wrote: From how I've looked at it, there's two different ones you can currently buy. One is a story jump that puts you at the beginning of HW, and the other is a level jump. Both give you a discount based on how far the character already is in story and levels.Â
Source - FFXIV SE Forums
Bear in mind that those will be updated once Stormblood hits - Story jump will put you at the start of SB and the Job jump will put you at 60 in one job.
Kinda laughing at the idea of jumping Summoner to also get 60 SCH but y'know.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Mia Moui - 12-21-2016
I would pay real money - and no small amount - to bypass MSQ dungeons. Â My in-game experience would feel 200% improved without having to deal with my social anxiety combined with leadership expectations (I'm a tank) and performance issues (unreliable rural internet).
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Ryslo Suramlo - 12-21-2016
Very tough. I think for some people, especially perhaps the established individuals may find Jump Potions sort of distasteful. While newer players (Maybe within the last year and maybe some veteran players) may see the importance of it.
I understand the reluctance of the More Established Characters, they had to work through all that content. They had to earn every level and they had to wait for game mechanics and new content along the way. They played through ARR, Heavensward and will most likely play through the new expansion as well. Having Jump Potions for a good number of these players seems like they are being cheated out of all their efforts. I totally get that and respect it. I think we all take pride in the things we do whether its game related or real life and for someone to take a short cut feels kinda crappy.
I also understand the acceptance of these Jump Potions. It welcomes newer players by allowing them to play with their friends sooner. It allows them to bypass Week(s) (Depending on how one plays the game) of content to just get started on the new expansion pack leaving a great deal of room there for that player to lose interest since they have to trudge through so much out-dated content. I think for the most part, Jump Potions are meant to ease that tension and try to create a continued subscription to the game long into the future. In hopes that getting people into the action (The new stuff) sooner will keep them with us longer.
There are Pro's, There are Con's to both mentalities. I like some of the alternative idea's. Like cutting out the fatty stuff and maybe give an increase in xp via potions as rewards for doing those missions so they still get the story and still can level up a bit quicker along the way. I love that idea myself. Either way can't wait to see what the outcome of it will bring.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - Kellach Woods - 12-21-2016
As they're described I'm chill with it. It kinda sucks that they don't get to experience ARR/HW but chances are they're coming in and most of the shit will be mad spoiled so the emotional impact and everything we hold dear to that time will be dead in the water. So all you're left with is a bunch of gameplay that, quite frankly, isn't super interesting.
Job level skip? I'm fine with it as well - Mostly because it's never to the maximum level (you still have to play) and 10 levels is enough to grasp the basics and some intermediate strats of your job if you actually care about being good.
RE: Your thoughts on jump potions? - EliBallard - 12-23-2016
I think they should be limited to someone who's already cleared the story at least once on their account, but that's just me.