+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Community Full of Cliques (/showthread.php?tid=17938)
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Tyndles - 12-18-2016
RP events are for RPing in public, not necessarily RPing with the public. Â If the latter happens that's great, but I guarantee event coordinators are thrilled when 2 or 3 groups of 3-5 people show up and mostly keep to themselves.
Because that means the event had people, and was successful, and people will show up again. To RP at that bar/date auction/party again, and bring new faces that those people likely made in smaller coordinated RP.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Faye - 12-18-2016
(12-18-2016, 08:53 PM)Terrin Wrote: They're not supporting anyone but they're small group if you're just RPing with them at a public event, and it is extremely silly to say that they're trying to keep the potential of unexpected interactions when they're avoiding the primary channels that allow it. A lot of people have various health/anxiety issues when trying to publicly RP, and I really do feel for them, but what about the person who also has severe social anxiety and is trying their hardest to RP just to be brushed off (at a public event no less)? That's as rude as hell, as well. Then they have people demonizing them by telling them that it's their own fault that they were ignored.
There are a million reasons on why someone could have missed something in /s or /sm, but there is missing something, then there is ignoring it by using a private channel to get away from it. People can say that they don't mean to be ignoring /s or /em, but that is what they are doing by using private channels.
As someone with actual experience in both things here, let me tell you:
A) As someone who has ran more public RP events than I can count in this game alone, people showing up is absolutely an act support for the event. Even if they only RP in /party all night, it's nice to see those characters there for the hosts and other attendees alike, and it's warming to know those people wanted to come (honestly it's even more flattering that they still want to be there even if the chatspam is obviously a hurdle for them).
Not to mention, if these people wanted to avoid any possibility of unplanned social interaction, they probably wouldn't have come to a public event. Just because they aren't watching /em and /s like a hawk to see every post that might be directed at them doesn't mean they aren't open to walk-ups. And even if they aren't? It's a public space (the event in question was in the middle of a city, not someone's FC house), others are allowed to RP there and they do not owe it to you to involve you. Someone is allowed their own priorities and preferences and no, that doesn't make them "rude," it makes them a person with their own rights and interests who is spending $15 to chillax and have fun here just like everyone else.
B) As a person who does have severe social anxiety (hi, yes, hello), I still understand that no one is obligated to approach me or respond to me and that I am not entitled to RP from anyone. I understand that I more than most people have to remind myself not to take out my frustrations and others and understand that they have their own problems and that the world does not revolve around me. I understand that every time I am unnoticed or ignored is not an intentional or malicious act, and that even when it is, I cannot and should not paint the entire community with a generality based on a few sparse interactions. I know that as a person who struggles with these things, I cannot let myself fall into a downward spiral of getting discouraged and pointing my finger at others.
In short, I have to manage, and I know that, and no one else is responsible if I fail in that. The people who take their RP to party so that they don't aggravate any conditions they might have and hurt themselves emotionally or physically, so they don't miss an RP event they would enjoy, so they don't blow up or bail on their friends? They're managing. The people who have a meltdown or fall into despair because someone does not reply to their post? They're not managing. That's the key difference here. And no, your "management" should not involve forcing anyone else to sacrifice theirs.
You want to know what's actually rude and unfair? Blaming people for accidentally missing a post from a total stranger in a spammy event and acting as if it's an act of malice and as if the world owes you its attention.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - RavieRaptor - 12-18-2016
Hey guys, I'm sorry I started this. I read every post and accepted everyone's thoughts on this. But I don't want this to get more aggressive. I shouldn't have posted a rant to begin with. But regardless, I'm always open for RP!Â
Feel free to add me on discord: Chelsea#3069
It's easier than adding all my alts till I pick one.
Thank you everyone for all your thoughts and opinions.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Maia - 12-18-2016
I think a lot of people have felt edged out due to cliques (or even just the perception of cliques) at one point or another. I don't think this is an uncommon feeling at all - but I also don't feel right blaming any one event or any one person for it. I think it all has to do with the atmosphere, and knowing that every single other RPer out there comes into role-play with their own set of difficulties and struggles. In this case, an individual's struggle may have been the chat scroll, or their own social anxiety, or yes, they may have been using the event for a night with established contacts without a particular desire to expand their social circle.
The frustration in feeling ignored is real. But I think the best advice I can give is to pay attention to the type of event you're attending. Large, freeform RP events (or locations) may not be the best venue to establish lasting IC contacts. They're wonderful for the environment and the event runners still put a lot of time and effort into them, but if you're looking for a guaranteed interaction, it just may not be the right venue. I've heard this frustration with events many times before: going to a large event, being ignored, and then swearing off events 5ever. I recommend to not do this!
Depending on what you're looking for (in this case, a 'guaranteed' RP), there are many events that could scratch this itch. If you enter any sort of tournament as a contender, you'll be facing off against another in a one-on-one bout, at the very least. Additionally, the Secret Scenario Santa seemed like a good one for guaranteed fun. The recent Friendly Date Auction also seemed like a good bet for a guaranteed hook. Heck, my own linkshell's monthly Host Club is 100% focused around pairing Guests up with their very own Host/Hostess and saying "have fun, kids!" (The only caveat for the Host Club is that Guests who arrive like 1-2 hours late sometimes find that there are no Hosts left, as they've all been taken up by that point.)
I'm someone who has a hard time with chat scroll, even if the group is as small as like 4 people, so I always consider that when thinking of which events I can go to. I'd never recommend swearing off events - especially if you're still looking to establish some contacts - but I might recommend thinking about the sort of event that would benefit your goals the most.
I'll also go ahead and echo that changing characters/fantasia'ing often can make it hard for players to invest in your character. An unfortunate thing I've seen is that someone will start to establish great hooks and blossoming friendships with Character A, and then switch to Character B and expect all of those IC hooks and friendships to still carry over. But from your RP partner's perspective, it's like hitting a massive DELETE button on every interaction you've had together up to that point. It starts you back from square one, and unless you feel there's a very good reason to do it (such as getting away from some very thick drama), it almost always seems to be self-sabotaging.
As a follow-up suggestion to making contacts, I'd check out some linkshells. Read up on what they're like both ICly and OoCly, and heck, try them out! Assuming you already have a FC, I'd hit up some linkshells to supplement your RP. Just like with events, I'd approach them with an equally discerning eye, to see what might be the best fit for what you're looking for.
Best of luck!
Edit: Ah dang, the OP is already gone from this thread. Maia the Slow is too slow again.
Hopefully there's still someone out there who can use these suggestions to break through the perceived "clique wall", anyway!
RE: Community Full of Cliques - RavieRaptor - 12-18-2016
(12-18-2016, 09:37 PM)Maia Wrote: I think a lot of people have felt edged out due to cliques (or even just the perception of cliques) at one point or another. I don't think this is an uncommon feeling at all - but I also don't feel right blaming any one event or any one person for it. I think it all has to do with the atmosphere, and knowing that every single other RPer out there comes into role-play with their own set of difficulties and struggles. In this case, an individual's struggle may have been the chat scroll, or their own social anxiety, or yes, they may have been using the event for a night with established contacts without a particular desire to expand their social circle.Don't worry, I see your post! I just didn't want anymore aggression of others in the thread!
The frustration in feeling ignored is real. But I think the best advice I can give is to pay attention to the type of event you're attending. Large, freeform RP events (or locations) may not be the best venue to establish lasting IC contacts. They're wonderful for the environment and the event runners still put a lot of time and effort into them, but if you're looking for a guaranteed interaction, it just may not be the right venue. I've heard this frustration with events many times before: going to a large event, being ignored, and then swearing off events 5ever. I recommend to not do this!
Depending on what you're looking for (in this case, a 'guaranteed' RP), there are many events that could scratch this itch. If you enter any sort of tournament as a contender, you'll be facing off against another in a one-on-one bout, at the very least. Additionally, the Secret Scenario Santa seemed like a good one for guaranteed fun. The recent Friendly Date Auction also seemed like a good bet for a guaranteed hook. Heck, my own linkshell's monthly Host Club is 100% focused around pairing Guests up with their very own Host/Hostess and saying "have fun, kids!" (The only caveat for the Host Club is that Guests who arrive like 1-2 hours late sometimes find that there are no Hosts left, as they've all been taken up by that point.) Â
I'm someone who has a hard time with chat scroll, even if the group is as small as like 4 people, so I always consider that when thinking of which events I can go to. I'd never recommend swearing off events - especially if you're still looking to establish some contacts - but I might recommend thinking about the sort of event that would benefit your goals the most.
I'll also go ahead and echo that changing characters/fantasia'ing often can make it hard for players to invest in your character. An unfortunate thing I've seen is that someone will start to establish great hooks and blossoming friendships with Character A, and then switch to Character B and expect all of those IC hooks and friendships to still carry over. But from your RP partner's perspective, it's like hitting a massive DELETE button on every interaction you've had together up to that point. It starts you back from square one, and unless you feel there's a very good reason to do it (such as getting away from some very thick drama), it almost always seems to be self-sabotaging.
As a follow-up suggestion to making contacts, I'd check out some linkshells. Read up on what they're like both ICly and OoCly, and heck, try them out! Assuming you already have a FC, I'd hit up some linkshells to supplement your RP. Just like with events, I'd approach them with an equally discerning eye, to see what might be the best fit for what you're looking for.
Best of luck!
Edit: Ah dang, the OP is already gone from this thread. Maia the Slow is too slow again.
Hopefully there's still someone out there who can use these suggestions to break through the perceived "clique wall", anyway!
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Zhu - 12-18-2016
(12-18-2016, 09:49 PM)RavieRaptor Wrote: Don't worry, I see your post! I just didn't want anymore aggression of others in the thread!That's not your fault either. Whatever the truth may be, some people were real jerks about it :/
I hope this doesn't put you off from trying again and that you'll find people to RP with! There are actually a lot of good people in the server.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Jaliqai - 12-18-2016
As the host of the Golden Gala, I wanted to drop a reply here and apologize that you didn't have a good time at the event. We host this event every year to give people a fun way to spend an evening, and it always sucks to hear that you fall short on delivering that, whether it's a hundred people or just one.
One thing I do want to point out, however, is that a specific hallway section off of the Gold Court was mentioned in the event flier last night (see "The Dance Queue") as a hotspot for people to congregate specifically for the purpose of finding RP partners in the mess of bodies because we knew people would have issues like this at the Gala.
I actually spoke to Rhos about this well before the event while we were in planning stages, trying to figure out a means for us to offer some way for lone RPers to more easily find RP. One idea I had was a sort of dance partner roulette, but honestly, we just didn't have the manpower to spare with everything else that we had to run and manage during the Gala itself. So the Dance Queue hallway section was intended to be a compromise; we couldn't afford to manually set people up together for RP, but we hoped that people would use that specific area to try and more easily find others actively looking for RP partners in the massive throng of people and unending, head-spinning chatscroll.
Sadly, it seemed that not many people utilized it as it was intended. I looked over a few times and found a couple people sitting over there with their /LFM flags up throughout the night, but not many. I'll take responsibility for that, as I feel I could've advertised it more. But in my naivety, I assumed people would read it on the flier and I felt I was already spamming /yells enough without adding even more announcements.
That said, we'll definitely take your feedback into consideration for next year's Golden Gala, and apologies again that you didn't have a great time.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Warren Castille - 12-18-2016
I think it's also worth mentioning that Rome wasn't built in a day. Making connections doesn't happen instantly. It's incredibly rare to have a one-off encounter feel like a cemented, for-sure meeting. In my opinion, getting to know people means putting in the work to get to know them: Show up in the same spaces on the same person frequently. Learn the faces and names. Remember who you've talked to and what others have said. As mentioned above by a wise qiqirn, everyone had to start somewhere, and a good fair few of us started as door to door RP salesmen: Go everywhere, meet everyone, sell sell sell.
There's nothing wrong with variety in your characters, but think of it kind of like a dating scene: No one's getting married after the second date. Invest a little of yourself, be patient, and don't be afraid if things don't happen immediately. Seeds take time to produce sprouts. If you're replanting every two weeks, you can't blame the soil.
Quick, someone get more not-entirely-accurate analogies in here.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Oli! - 12-19-2016
I'm going to sidestep 99% of this conversation and present an untouched and often overlooked way of getting roleplay and breaking the Clique Lockout.
Making a Linkshell with a reasonably unique RP hook that addresses something you want to do!
If you make a network with the promise of engagement of a specific / interesting facet of the world, provide people with a reasonably easy way into it, and regularly deliver on the network's stated promises and content, you will have all the RP you could ever want (and probably more).
Alternatively, you could always join one of these networks, because there are many. Adventuring, training, crafting, Voidsent-slaying, yeah, lots.
One or the other will likely work for you, I'm nearly certain of such. Something something "if you build it, they will come."
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Leggerless - 12-19-2016
Well, this thread has... produced quite a bit of discussion and possibly vitriol throughout the day since I last checked in.
Guess my next suggestion is to find a way for people to sticky this giant thread of opinions/facts/rants/etc. somewhere so we can hang up the thread on display for all the community to see.
Hopefully we don't have to see another one like this quickly--especially right after the holidays--and if we do we have a giant link for use showing "Here's what's up; here's what to do and not to do."
Edit: Also, the Panama Canal was not built in a day. Roosevelt, yo.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Lamia - 12-19-2016
Forgive me ahead of time if this sounds like a shameless plug, but problems such as this. Or rather, people feeling like this, is exactly why myself and a few other's founded and built Wanderer's Respite like we did. We noticed there was a lack of places where someone could take a character; Shy, socially awkward, unknown, new as a character or even to Rp, or the game in general, etc. And get Rp from people as soon as they walked in the door.
That, is exactly what our FC and establishment is there for, so if you, or if anyone within this thread rather. Feels as if they would like a place to go, meet new people, or just know they can get rp without the crowds or anxiety. Your free to stop by at anytime and come say hello with your characters~
There aren't many of us at current, given were a new establishment and all. But if your willing to put up with things being a bit quiet, and there being only a few of us. We'd be glad to have you. <3
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Teadrinker - 12-19-2016
I want to take a minute to just address 'clique' as it's used here.
So if someone decides to RP with a group of people or just one person for an event then they are these evil clique people.
Honestly? This just feels really strawman. It sounds like a way to blame this faceless, nameless concept when RP doesn't go your way.
Is someone a jerk if they ignore you when you walk up? Hell yeah. I had that happen to me TODAY ON MY FRONT LAWN. (Rude af) Know what I did? I said "Wow, that guy is a jerk." and moved along and found RP elsewhere.
It's not a 'cliques' fault. It's not the fault of people having a group of friends or an FC. Like this concept just honestly tries to make people feel bad for having a social group and that's frigging dumb.
You want to hold people responsible for their actions? Cool. Awesome. Go for it. When you're aware of the entire situation. Odds are if you're defaulting to "Oh dude's just got a clique." Then you don't know.
No new people walked up to me at the Gala. Did I respond to walkups? Yes. Was I there to really only RP with one person? Yes. Did wallflowers probably think me and my one person were probably a 'clique' because we have the same FC tag and not even bother to walk up? It's possible.
Also shout out to the folk that put this event on. Stuff like this is NEVER easy and you guys deserve tons of props for doing it. You're literally going out of your way to create RP for the entire server and it often goes unappreciated.
I APPRECIATE YOU.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Shofie - 12-19-2016
Absolutely do not constantly Fantasia-bomb your character because you're struggling to find a concept or character that works. Changing your character too often will just put people off roleplaying with you.Â
It's basically sending the message that you are flighty and there's absolutely no reason to invest time in you, because you might just change your mind a few days later, and then all the time you may have spent trying to connect with someone will be gone and the other person will be stuck trying to explain away their encounters with you.
If you're struggling with a character, pull friends in, ask them advice, etc. I've found trying to tell someone what I'm trying to do with a character will get them to ask me questions that motivate thought-provoking answers.
Also, I notice that you're really worried what others think of you to the point you change yourself (your character) to attempt to please them, to try to find an idea that sticks with the crowd, and that's a super bad idea. Trying to conform to what you think will make a popular character will result in a huge mash of either something that doesn't make much sense, or something you don't really like playing at the end of the day (or both).Â
You presumably aren't here to roleplay for others, you're here to roleplay for yourself, for your own motivations and reasons. Don't get boxed in by trying to be what others want.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Skae - 12-19-2016
(12-18-2016, 08:44 PM)Teadrinker Wrote:(12-18-2016, 07:25 PM)Faye Wrote:(12-18-2016, 07:00 PM)T Wrote: That's top of the line BS. If you go to a public event, then proceed to use a private channel at it, why are you even there? Yes, the scroll does get real, but that's a piss poor excuse to completely ignore /s and /em when you knowingly went to a public event. Hell, it's a piss poor excuse when you watch someone walk up to you and target you.
Because people want to RP the theme/atmosphere of the event and want to take part in it, want to support the event/hosts/community, and typically still want to keep the potential for new/unexpected interactions open, but also want to ensure they don't miss posts from the people they're RPing with and don't want to cause themselves any extra stress or pain.
I did this.
I don't get a lot of time for any one on one RP with a certain person due to their OOC schedule and this was a nice event so they went together and mostly paid attention to each other. It's not a crime.
I responded to every walkup as well. Did I initiate any? No because that wasn't what I was there for.
I doubt anyone has any problem with that behaviour - I know I don't.
It is when people don't respond to any walkups or don't pay any attention to people apart from their chosen company that it gets a bit iffy.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Skae - 12-19-2016
(12-18-2016, 09:11 PM)Kilieit Wrote: No; nobody's obligated to RP with anyone. Full stop.
Even if they're at an event. Even if they have their RP tag up. Even if you really really want to RP with someone and everyone else so far has said no.
Depends on what you mean by RP. If they are RP-ing in a public RP event, then I'd say they are (morally) obligated to at least respond to others attempts to RP with them - even if it is only to tell the others to go away and stop bothering them. That too is RP - brief as it may be.
Much like real life really - you are not obligated to have long conversations with anyone who may approach you, but not making any response (verbal or otherwise) when they address you is typically considered quite rude.