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+--- Thread: RPing the Jobs (/showthread.php?tid=6101)
RE: RPing the Jobs - LiadansWhisper - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 04:48 PM)Zazalan Wrote:(01-12-2014, 03:39 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: The game also allows me to be the savior of Eorzea, and to have single-handedly (or with a group, depending on when you watch your cutscenes!) broken into the biggest Garlean installation on the continent and taken on Ultima Weapon - and won!
But it would be dumb as rocks if I actually tried to use that in RP just because that's what I played in-game.
I wouldn't compare being the savior of Eorzea to being able to play as an actual job given to us in the game that is a necessity for high level play. Â My point is that classes/jobs should be RPed freely. Â Not much more to it. Â Some people would rather not make any distinction between the two and that's understandable. Â For any individual that wants to RP as any job, all that really matters is how we handle it when RPing with others.
You can disagree with me on the comparison, but as I said, it's the same thing in my eyes. Â If you're going to say, "If I can play it, I can RP it," then the thing is, I already have played Savior of Eorzea, so why can't I RP it? Â Because it doesn't make any sense?
Catch 22, don't you think?
RE: RPing the Jobs - synaesthetic - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 05:00 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: You can disagree with me on the comparison, but as I said, it's the same thing in my eyes. Â If you're going to say, "If I can play it, I can RP it," then the thing is, I already have played Savior of Eorzea, so why can't I RP it? Â Because it doesn't make any sense?
Catch 22, don't you think?
No, it's not the same thing and no, there's no Catch-22 situation here.
Look at it logically.
How many people can be the single person who defeated Gaius, routed the Garleans, foiled Lahabrea's plans and saved Eorzea? One person can be this. The game explicitly shows you as the Chosen One. It never, ever, ever shows any other player as also being the Chosen One. It may show other players as your helper, or your friends, or hirelings... and their clients will show them as the Hero and you as the helper.
How many people can be a White Mage? How many people does the game show as a White Mage? Does the game erase every other White Mage's artifact armor and replace it with generic conjurer robes? No, it does not. Does the game hide all other Thyruses and show them to you as a plain wooden cane? No, it does not.
The game goes out of its way to indicate that you, the player, are the hero, and it takes great pains to ensure that you are the only one who looks like the hero. Of course this is worthless in an MMO, so it must be discarded. The lore surrounding white mages is also a Chosen One narrative, so it, too, must be discarded.
But wait! There's all these damn white mages everywhere now! So you can discard the offending part of the lore that relies upon Super Speshul Snowflake Storytelling (very lazy and very bad for an MMO), but that still leaves you with loads of white mages everywhere.
If someone claims to be a white mage in game and isn't a Padjal, my character will absolutely be suspicious. The Succor is not something just anyone can use. Aeri will become very, very curious, because it means that person did something exceptional to access that power. Since Aeri is a researcher of the nature of magic, this would interest her a great deal. That's such a freaking good RP hook that I'd never just throw it away.
If people want to disbelieve that another person is a white mage, then that's fine, but if the white mage manages to prove what they are ICly, and the person continues to stubbornly refuse to believe it, expect to cause OOC frustration. Additionally I probably wouldn't continue to RP with someone who refused to participate properly.
RE: RPing the Jobs - LandStander - 01-12-2014
I think the thing is that people want to be the strongest job/class. I mean when it comes down to RP fighting, a gladiator and paladin still both use a sword and shield, a lancer and dragoon still both use a lance, a conjurer and white mage still can both heal, etc. I just think people want the super powerful title and the abilities that come along with it, even though they probably will not often use them, and I honestly don't understand why.Â
My main for instance will probably never become a monk, but that doesn't keep her from still running around and beating the crap out of things. A job title is just a job title and you don't need it to be considered awesome.Â
I feel like its the same thing when it comes to the discussion about relic weapons. Some people want to RP the relic weapons because they want to feel/look super strong, instead of just settling for a normal weapon or a replica.
At the end of the day, when I run into RPers who claim they are White Mages or Dragoons or something like that; I simply say "okay" and go along with it, because they are going to do what they want and as long as its not screwing up any story that I have set on my character then I'm fine with it.
RE: RPing the Jobs - synaesthetic - 01-12-2014
I don't RP fight. If there has to be battle between a character of mine and a character of someone else's, then it gets written up in forum RP, at least in FFXIV, because we have no dueling or deathmatch function.
Yes, I'm one of "those" RPers that tries to involve gameplay systems as much as possible and I absolutely loathe emote "fighting." If we need to have a good, gripping, edge-of-your-seat battle, I'm going to write it up as a ficlet after talking with the person OOC and determining the outcome.
My reason for wanting to roleplay the jobs is based around my character's roleplay. Aeriyn is a scientist. She studies magic. Her life's work is to create a universal aetherial theory, a method for explaining how all magic, aether, crystals and the various things work, and the various things that happen as a result of these things (including primals, deities, Hydaelyn and Zodiark). So yes, the actual, lore-specific difference between a conjurer and a white mage, a thaumaturge and a black mage, an arcanist and a summoner or scholar... these are big differences in power, in capability and in the methodologies they use to do what they do.
If I just ignored all of that then Aeriyn's roleplay would be far, far less interesting and that would be terrible. She's a black mage, which fortunately there's considerable lore support for this because during the BLM storyline you encounter a whole mess of other black mages, none of whom actually have the Gem of Shatotto. I don't RP Aeriyn as if she has the gem, because that's leaning dangerously close to Super Speshul Snowflake territory. The gem is known to her, as it's part of black mage lore, but she doesn't know where it is. Probably that crazy lala still has it. But Aeri being a black mage ICly, and being taught the arts of the Nymian scholar by Rinah, these things are kind of extremely important to her personal storyline. Disregarding them would be silly.
RE: RPing the Jobs - CalebAgron - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 05:00 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(01-12-2014, 04:48 PM)Zazalan Wrote:(01-12-2014, 03:39 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: The game also allows me to be the savior of Eorzea, and to have single-handedly (or with a group, depending on when you watch your cutscenes!) broken into the biggest Garlean installation on the continent and taken on Ultima Weapon - and won!
But it would be dumb as rocks if I actually tried to use that in RP just because that's what I played in-game.
I wouldn't compare being the savior of Eorzea to being able to play as an actual job given to us in the game that is a necessity for high level play. Â My point is that classes/jobs should be RPed freely. Â Not much more to it. Â Some people would rather not make any distinction between the two and that's understandable. Â For any individual that wants to RP as any job, all that really matters is how we handle it when RPing with others.
You can disagree with me on the comparison, but as I said, it's the same thing in my eyes. Â If you're going to say, "If I can play it, I can RP it," then the thing is, I already have played Savior of Eorzea, so why can't I RP it? Â Because it doesn't make any sense?
Catch 22, don't you think?
I completely understand where she is coming from, and I would respect her IC/OOC even if she looked at mine like she was bat shit crazy for claiming to be a White Mage. At the end of the day people are going to RP how they see fit, and just as I have every right to RP a White Mage she has every right to RP like I'm Michele Bachmann ..I mean bat shit crazy.
If lore wise it exists, I personally am very lenient with how my character will perceive people and accept certain things. Obviously someone RP Sailor Moon or something that has nothing to do with lore..that's when my eyes tend to start rolling.
RE: RPing the Jobs - LiadansWhisper - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 05:37 PM)CalebAgron Wrote: I completely understand where she is coming from, and I would respect her IC/OOC even if she looked at mine like she was bat shit crazy for claiming to be a White Mage. At the end of the day people are going to RP how they see fit, and just as I have every right to RP a White Mage she has every right to RP like I'm Michele Bachmann ..I mean bat shit crazy.
If lore wise it exists, I personally am very lenient with how my character will perceive people and accept certain things. Obviously someone RP Sailor Moon or something that has nothing to do with lore..that's when my eyes tend to start rolling.
If Lorewise it exist, but Lorewise you couldn't possibly be it, what then?
Like I said, you can play whatever you want. Â But no one better get mad at me when my character is like, "Wait, what? Â You're a complete lunatic!" in response to someone claiming to be a White Mage. Â Since, you know, it's still forbidden magic. -_- Â And it's still Padjal-only (and very, very secret).
RE: RPing the Jobs - Zazalan - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 05:00 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: You can disagree with me on the comparison, but as I said, it's the same thing in my eyes.  If you're going to say, "If I can play it, I can RP it," then the thing is, I already have played Savior of Eorzea, so why can't I RP it?  Because it doesn't make any sense?
Catch 22, don't you think?
I didn't say you can't RP as the savior. You can RP as the savior. Â It is not against lore. Â It's just going to be widely seen as obnoxious. Â You probably see RPing as WHM the same way. Â That's fine, but the game actually gives you a lore reason as to how you, the player, have become a WHM. My original response to you was explaining that as opposed to being WHM or the Savior of Eorzea, we players have no lore for being a Padjal. Â So regardless of our views on any of these matters (and whether you agree that these story elements should count as lore backing for players or not) there -is- a distinction there.
(01-12-2014, 05:29 PM)LandStander Wrote: I think the thing is that people want to be the strongest job/class. I mean when it comes down to RP fighting, a gladiator and paladin still both use a sword and shield, a lancer and dragoon still both use a lance, a conjurer and white mage still can both heal, etc. I just think people want the super powerful title and the abilities that come along with it, even though they probably will not often use them, and I honestly don't understand why.ÂÂ
Mm, I find it a little strange that people would question why anyone wants to be these jobs or not. Â Some of us have been longtime fans of the FF series. I remember first playing as a Dragoon back when I was kid in Japan living with my dad in the military. Â FF has been with me for a long time and many jobs are iconic staples of the series. WHM is the same, and in many games White Magic has been something utilized by jobs that are not specifically White Mages. Â It is very much sentimental and as with all things will matter more to some than it does to others. Â Do many people really care about "RP Fighting"?
RE: RPing the Jobs - CalebAgron - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 07:41 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(01-12-2014, 05:37 PM)CalebAgron Wrote: I completely understand where she is coming from, and I would respect her IC/OOC even if she looked at mine like she was bat shit crazy for claiming to be a White Mage. At the end of the day people are going to RP how they see fit, and just as I have every right to RP a White Mage she has every right to RP like I'm Michele Bachmann ..I mean bat shit crazy.
If lore wise it exists, I personally am very lenient with how my character will perceive people and accept certain things. Obviously someone RP Sailor Moon or something that has nothing to do with lore..that's when my eyes tend to start rolling.
If Lorewise it exist, but Lorewise you couldn't possibly be it, what then?
Like I said, you can play whatever you want. Â But no one better get mad at me when my character is like, "Wait, what? Â You're a complete lunatic!" in response to someone claiming to be a White Mage. Â Since, you know, it's still forbidden magic. -_- Â And it's still Padjal-only (and very, very secret).
I already stated how in my opinion this is an oversight on the dev's part, and so I feel no need to "stick to lore". And no offense but I wouldn't RP to please you, I already said I respect what your opinion is, but you obviously can't accept other peoples. So it's safe to say we would never RP with each other anyway.
RE: RPing the Jobs - ArmachiA - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 09:06 PM)Zazalan Wrote: Do many people really care about "RP Fighting"?
Consider how many people show up at the Grindstone every week, I'm going with quite a few.
RE: RPing the Jobs - John Spiegel - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 09:16 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:(01-12-2014, 09:06 PM)Zazalan Wrote: Do many people really care about "RP Fighting"?
Consider how many people show up at the Grindstone every week, I'm going with quite a few.
I've yet to attend due to my job giving me limited random time.
ANYWAYS.
So the problem with RPing the "one hero" or a job that makes it impossible to be that job unless you are the "one" is obnoxiously selfish and really lazy. If you followed the story at all at the end, there were massive-off-screen battles at other Castrums. Just because you RP'd the main story doesn't mean you have to be the one to poke the final bosses. Whenever my group gets up that point, no way in hell we're going to be the ones that did it. There's so many other battles my character could be badassing at as well.
As for RPing a job like WHM or whatnot, why can't you just be a really strong CNJ? Hell, two of my characters are MNKs straight out of Ala Mhigo during the Garlean's big ol' genocide (second one in five years for them) and JJ's just a dude that's fought his entire life to be free - no guild affiliation or nothing. It's kind of narrow to think just because a character is a great healer or really badass with a lance automatically makes them one thing. I recall that the lancers of Ala Mhigo were the cream of the crop, giving Ishgardian lancers/dragoons a run for their gil.
All that being said, I have actually RP'd with somone that says they're a dark white mage. OOCly I thought it to be hoaky but ICly, John takes things for face value. He'd rather not piss off someone he has no intentions of fighting on the off chance that they're some supreme being... he wasn't wearing the right eyepatch for the occasion!
In the end, there's LS/FC out there that cater to various amounts of lorebending. There's NEVER going to be a community-wide agreement of this... just like of so many other things. When these varying-of-opinion RPers cross paths, just play nice with each other, eh?
*plants a pinwheel in the ground*
RE: RPing the Jobs - synaesthetic - 01-12-2014
Why not be a really strong *insert class here*?
Well, there's job specific abilities. Thaumaturges can't cast Flare. They can't consume part of their blood or body to fuel their aetheric capacity (Convert). Conjurers can't cast Holy, or Benediction.
And the lore around the jobs is very, very interesting. If I were to RP a white mage, I would follow the lore as closely as possible while also disregarding the Super Speshul Snowflake nature of it. My character would be a white mage, who isn't supposed to know what she knows. She would avoid Gridania, be fearful of the intercession of the elementals, and hide her access to Succor...
... just like my black mage character, Aeriyn, wears plain robes or other outfits to hide her traditional black mage attire, doesn't use her black magic where it would be recognized as such, and tries her damndest to avoid attracting attention of any shady characters who might want to use her knowledge for their own personal gain. Or any do-gooders who might want to put a stop to her for the crime of using "forbidden" magic.
Fortunately for me, the black mage lore is not Super Speshul Snowflake. There are at least five other black mages in the BLM quest line, and it's strongly hinted at that the guildmaster of the Ossuary is also a black mage. But if I were to RP a WHM, I would disregard that Super Speshul Snowflake-ness, just like I disregard killing Gaius van Baelsar, destroying Castrum Meridianum and saving all of Eorzea.
Anything that could edge your character toward Mary Suedom, even if the game's storyline encourages it, should be thrown away.
RE: RPing the Jobs - Naunet - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 09:43 PM)John Spiegel Wrote: As for RPing a job like WHM or whatnot, why can't you just be a really strong CNJ? Hell, two of my characters are MNKs straight out of Ala Mhigo during the Garlean's big ol' genocide (second one in five years for them) and JJ's just a dude that's fought his entire life to be free - no guild affiliation or nothing. It's kind of narrow to think just because a character is a great healer or really badass with a lance automatically makes them one thing. I recall that the lancers of Ala Mhigo were the cream of the crop, giving Ishgardian lancers/dragoons a run for their gil.
And what if it's not about being "badass" but about tapping into the themes surrounding a particular job? Telling someone to just be "a really strong CNJ" might be completely contrary to what that person wants to roleplay because a conjurer is not a white mage, and the former does not carry the same themes or historical identity as the latter. Would you tell someone who wants to roleplay a monk "Why can't you just be a really strong PGL?" No, because the two are not the same.
And Liadan, the distinction between roleplaying a padjal and roleplaying a white mage is quite clear. There is no way for a player to play as a padjal in this game. I'll admit it's a bit disappointing that you would be so adamantly and potentially meta-game-ingly against a player character's white mage in RP, especially as your OOC vehemence implies you might continue to deny their IC identity even after your character was given proof.
RE: RPing the Jobs - LiadansWhisper - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 09:11 PM)CalebAgron Wrote: And no offense but I wouldn't RP to please you, I already said I respect what your opinion is, but you obviously can't accept other peoples.
It's like you read only half of what I said and not the other half. Â I don't expect anyone to "RP to please me." Â How conceited and self-righteous would I have to be to expect other people to RP in a certain manner with me? Â I mean, that's stupid.
I wasn't asking anyone to RP "to please me." Â I'm saying that no one has better get mad at me, the player, when my character reacts badly. Â Because that's mixing of IC and OOC and apparently some people around here don't know the difference. Â And they get mad when they get pushback ICly and you end up with people being told they should "leave the server" because someone gets offended out of character over what is an in character opinion/belief, whatever.
Quote:So it's safe to say we would never RP with each other anyway.
Obviously, since you apparently believe I, the player, am some kind of sanctimonious bitch who expects people to cater to my whims in-character. Â Jesus Christ.
RE: RPing the Jobs - LiadansWhisper - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 09:59 PM)Naunet Wrote: And Liadan, the distinction between roleplaying a padjal and roleplaying a white mage is quite clear. There is no way for a player to play as a padjal in this game. I'll admit it's a bit disappointing that you would be so adamantly and potentially meta-game-ingly against a player character's white mage in RP, especially as your OOC vehemence implies you might continue to deny their IC identity even after your character was given proof.
Oh, I know you just did not, Antimony. Â I know you just did not.
What my character believes is none of your fucking business. Â Whether she chooses to believe or disbelieve what she sees is equally none of your fucking business.
There is absolutely nothing "meta-game-ingly" about saying, "Hey, this is probably going to be a problem since the in-character Lore says it can't happen." Â There is nothing "meta-game-ingly" about a character who has grown up in the Twelveswood, who knows because she was taught this by her trainers and her society that White Mages no longer exist because the magic was forbidden centuries before. Â This isn't "meta-game-ing."
The moment you step over the line and tell me how my character should behave because you want acceptance for something that has no support in the Lore of this damn game is the moment I lose my temper and you lose the rest of your credibility.
RE: RPing the Jobs - LiadansWhisper - 01-12-2014
(01-12-2014, 09:58 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: Why not be a really strong *insert class here*?
Well, there's job specific abilities. Thaumaturges can't cast Flare. They can't consume part of their blood or body to fuel their aetheric capacity (Convert). Conjurers can't cast Holy, or Benediction.
And the lore around the jobs is very, very interesting. If I were to RP a white mage, I would follow the lore as closely as possible while also disregarding the Super Speshul Snowflake nature of it. My character would be a white mage, who isn't supposed to know what she knows. She would avoid Gridania, be fearful of the intercession of the elementals, and hide her access to Succor...
Which makes complete sense (although you'd still be extremely special and rare - btw, there's nothing wrong with playing a rare, interesting, unique character at all).
Quote:... just like my black mage character, Aeriyn, wears plain robes or other outfits to hide her traditional black mage attire, doesn't use her black magic where it would be recognized as such, and tries her damndest to avoid attracting attention of any shady characters who might want to use her knowledge for their own personal gain. Or any do-gooders who might want to put a stop to her for the crime of using "forbidden" magic.
The question is, would they even know it for what it is? Â I mean, I would think that only another Black Mage or an experienced Thaumaturge would have an inkling that hey, that might be that darned forbidden magic stuff.
Just don't wear black. Â Everyone knows if you wear black, you're evil. Â The do-gooders will come from miles around to take you out if you wear black. Â Wear pink instead. Â No one would ever suspect a Pink Black Mage.
Quote:Fortunately for me, the black mage lore is not Super Speshul Snowflake. There are at least five other black mages in the BLM quest line, and it's strongly hinted at that the guildmaster of the Ossuary is also a black mage. But if I were to RP a WHM, I would disregard that Super Speshul Snowflake-ness, just like I disregard killing Gaius van Baelsar, destroying Castrum Meridianum and saving all of Eorzea.
Technically, the "super special" part about being a White Mage is just plain being a non-Padjal White Mage. Â I still don't see that as a bad thing, if handled correctly. Â And you seem to be the type who wouldn't trumpet it from the rooftops and cast Holy in the middle of the Carline Canopy.
Quote:Anything that could edge your character toward Mary Suedom, even if the game's storyline encourages it, should be thrown away.
Mmm. Â I don't 100% agree with this. Â Characters should be able to be unique and still be within the bounds of Lore. Â Just because you're one of a very select group, or even the only one of your kind (to your knowledge) doesn't mean that you're automatically a "Mary Sue." Â It just depends on how you handle it, I think.