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+--- Thread: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it (/showthread.php?tid=6287)
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Kage - 02-20-2014
Since I have no experience with it or the strategy I could be just blowing hot air. But I had read some posts to the effect that people aren't going to be able to essentially solo-tank it anymore.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Aleister - 02-20-2014
These are the things added claimed to be snuck into the patch. Haven't seen anywhere about it not being singled tank and it would be silly to add that feature in now since 2.2 is around the corner and given how long T5 has been out.
- A tank will now lose hate when stepping into a conflag
- Conflags have less HP
- Divebomb indicator is now larger
- Snakes have less HP
- Twintania’s enrage timer has been increased or possibly removed
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Illira - 02-20-2014
The reason it would make solo-tanking much harder would be that, if aggro is reset when you enter conflag now, the tank would lose Twintania, opening her up to #2 person on the aggro list. And if that person isn't another tank, it would be... bad. So they can't use conflag to hide out from damage/more importantly Death Sentence without letting Twintania loose on the rest of the party. That makes the idea of solo tanking her much harder.
Though, its early still. I would withhold judgement though until personal experience with the new patch/T5 or a few more days of raider reports.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Aleister - 02-20-2014
(02-20-2014, 04:45 PM)Illira Wrote: The reason it would make solo-tanking much harder would be that, if aggro is reset when you enter conflag now, the tank would lose Twintania, opening her up to #2 person on the aggro list. And if that person isn't another tank, it would be... bad. So they can't use conflag to hide out from damage/more importantly Death Sentence without letting Twintania loose on the rest of the party. That makes the idea of solo tanking her much harder.Pretty much, I'll be giving my experience on the matter after my raid later today.
Though, its early still. I would withhold judgement though until personal experience with the new patch/T5 or a few more days of raider reports.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Aleister - 02-21-2014
So update. Did Coil T2 and T5 and help.. The enrage strat is gone.. I shall call this patch...
Patch 2.16: The Revenge of ADS
T5 with the adds and conflag is true so far.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Merri - 02-21-2014
I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of tank swapping, as I always tank Twintania from twisters on, since I'm a Warrior and we send our MT Paladin off to stun dreadknights, but that would be a pretty dumb change to conflag. I mean, it doesn't really change the fact that both of your healers can very well get stuck in a slow conflag. Even if you burst them out, if you're on a funky timer, she can just decide to death sentence / plummet your tank and take them out if she really wanted to. They would either need to hope invincible / holmgang is up, or pretty much wipe it up. Unless for whatever reason the nerf to conflags is significant and you can pop them in like two seconds.
And while the odds of having both healers in conflags is low, we have it happen from time to time.
Bit annoyed they're already nerfing twintania before 2.2 hits, but I suppose it is what it is. I just hope they don't make it completely trivial with 2.2. It's already kind of trivial, in the sense that you can't really clear until you have the fight down 100%, so once you do...  ...it's just kind of mindlessly easy. The only real thing that causes us to wipe on her these days is RNG. Things we could have done nothing to mitigate. I was totally okay with them giving the echo buff in 2.2 to make it easier, but the fact that they're already nerfing up basically two of the three "checks" in the fight on top of that is disappointing.
Was kind of hoping for long lasting difficult content up until 2.2. Even as it stands, we blow through 1-5 in roughly an hour, and then primal EXs in about the same, then we're done for the week. The only thing that gives us a real sort of challenge, though, is Twintania and Titan EX. Nerfing Twin is only going to make Mondays all the more easier, and consequently less fun. :<
I'm all for opening up content to be doable by more people, but not at the expense of the serious/hardcore endgame players. There has to be some sort of challenge.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Naunet - 02-21-2014
T2 and T5 changes are a bug, as per this post.
Did T5 tonight and didn't notice any difference in conflag HP though. The increase in size of the overhead markers was a welcome change to my poor vision that has difficulty picking out shapes when the colors are all the same intensity, so I really hope that isn't in the list of things to revert.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Jana - 02-21-2014
Square has to appeal to as wide a fanbase as possible to make that money, and that means casual players (which suits me fine since I have to pug everything). Supposedly though, there's a rumor that these ninja nerfs to Twin and buffs to T2 ADS were actually meant for 2.2, not 2.16. Whether it's true or not, I doubt we'll ever really know.
Edit: Well, I guess that's that.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - synaesthetic - 02-21-2014
Conflags appear to have just as many hit points as they always have. Fester crits were taking pretty much exactly the same amount of a chunk off their life bar. If they changed the HP, it was so small it might as well not have been done.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Merri - 02-21-2014
(02-21-2014, 01:54 AM)Naunet Wrote: T5 changes are a bug, as per this post.
Thanks for this! Glad to know they're working on a fix. :>
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Aleister - 02-21-2014
(02-21-2014, 01:56 AM)Jana Wrote: Square has to appeal to as wide a fanbase as possible to make that money, and that means casual players (which suits me fine since I have to pug everything). Supposedly though, there's a rumor that these ninja nerfs to Twin and buffs to T2 ADS were actually meant for 2.2, not 2.16. Whether it's true or not, I doubt we'll ever really know.I'm thinking that also if it was a bug but.. O_< why would they put that in 2.16 and risk a bug letting that kind of stuff out (Which it did happen in this case lmfao) Though I think the Nerfs to T5 weren't that great enough that casuals can get through it like they claimed in the live letter.
Edit: Well, I guess that's that.
ANYWAYS I'M GLAD ITS A BUG CAUSE I WANNA HAVE IT ON FARM BEFORE 2.2
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - synaesthetic - 02-21-2014
The "changes" could have been completely unintentional. These are the kind of things that could be messed up by mistakenly changing a variable.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Kage - 02-21-2014
So from what I understand the recent 'change' to T2 came as a result of a bug fix and that they didn't account for how many people were doing a non-standard method to beat it. So apparently the boss' behavior changed after enrage making the usual enrage method less viable.
The T5 change was a result of an incomplete 2.2 change being applied early in 2.16 that changed Twintania's behavior.
I can't tell if the bugfix or the 2.2 change is the AI randomizer "Gambit"
To be honest I don't think the bug fix is too bad. I honestly would not mind at all learning how to beat T2 with the mechanics in mind but no one in my FC really does it so I'd have to actually find a group to teach it to me. ><;
Hotfix emeegency maintenance from 9am-12pm PST (5pm-8pm GMT if I understand correctly)
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Celeste - 02-21-2014
(02-21-2014, 09:54 AM)ExKage Wrote: I honestly would not mind at all learning how to beat T2 with the mechanics in mind but no one in my FC really does it so I'd have to actually find a group to teach it to me. ><;
EDIT: Corrected things now with Merri's help.
I did it ONCE. I can tell you right now I prefer the enrage method.
Now, this is an overview of the strategy of the ADS:
Each Sphere you kill on the way to the ADS removes an ability in the ADS arsenal. It also gives the ADS a permanent buff for the rest of the fight or until you reset it out. You will need to kill at least three to get the ADS, which means that three abilities get locked out and it will get three buffs. People took that in consideration which is why you have the path that most people take.
What most people knock out is chain lightning and firestorm. Primarily now it's because these are the ones with the easiest mechanics to knock out. The ADS will then keep three abilities: gravity well, a water crescent, and Allagan rot. It will also keep it's stacking debuff that it applies to the tank, high voltage (which is always silencable) and it's laser ability.
So the traditional set up will work as normal, silencing the high voltage and staying away from the massive aoes (mind you I played Monk so my experience varies to the mage/healers). The tanks do their swap thing while keeping a safe distance from the jackass.
At about 75% it has the most infamous attack, Allagan Rot. This is what it does: The player will have a debuff that does nothing but is instead a timer that counts down (this is 15 seconds). If the person's timer drops to 0 a huge AoE explosion occurs and everyone dies. How a person gets rid of it is by physically getting close to another person. This "passes" the debuff from the first person to the next, resetting the timer (since it is a new application.) The player that passes the rot also gets a 40 second immunity debuff which means that they can't receive the rot again until those 40 seconds are up. This means that when the next person's timer drops they need to move to another person to pass it again, resetting the timer and getting the immunity.
This basically makes this part of the fight a game of debuff hot potato. Since there is a little time 5 players can pass this around safely -- usually three ranged dpses and the two healers.
Once it hits about 50%, it kicks in the second ability, a gravity well. This ability isn't too bad. It will randomly targets a player and that person would get heavy + a DoT debuff as long as they are in the thing. It lasts about 20-30 seconds and there will be a little cool down before the next one goes up. The primary thing that this interferes with, though, is stepping out of it's laser attacks and the Allagan rot.
At about 25%, the ADS learns a water crescent move that has an atypical shape in melee-mid-length range. People that get hit with it take a couple of thousand water damage and get knocked back. Mostly this thing is surprising when it first starts and is something to keep in mind thereafter. It works horrendously with rot and screw up the cycle rotation.
So how the fight works is the two tanks (and, potentially, the melee DPS) engages the ADS and starts fighting. The five (or six) ranged attackers spread out in a circle shape on the other side in preparation of the rot. They are also numbered using 1 - 2 -3 -4 - 5 Things continue as normal, with the bards/paladin silencing high voltage and everybody avoiding the area attacks. One the gravity well goes down the ranged attackers maintain the same relative formation and move away from it to accommodate for the decrease in the size of the arena.
Once Allagan rot goes out, the person who receives it (if ranged) waits for the timer to tick down past 12 seconds but no more than 15. They then move to the next person in line and applies the rot debuff. That person then waits another 12 to 14 seconds before moving on to the next. This whole time they also need to keep in mind the ADS' moves and respond accordingly. It's trickier than it sounds and very easy to lose track of when you need to move. This keeps going until the end of the line in which case the 5th person moves back to the 1st to begin the cycle all over again.
Another other thing to keep in mind is that the rot can apply to the tanks and melee that you have. Rather than have either of them run to the back to become a part of the rotation one of the people in the line should go TO the melee/tank to take the rot away and start the rotation from there. Also while trying to keep from getting killed with the ADS's aoes and cleaves.
As you can see this is like balancing on a chair while there's a firehose trying to spray you down. The thing isn't that hard, but it requires coordination and if anybody dies the cycle is pretty much screwed.
RE: Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it - Celeste - 02-21-2014
Since I already did my essay on the Allagan rot strategy:
Here's Turn 1
==The ADS==
The first challenge is a gear check called the ADS. This is set in a narrow hallway, with some nooks and crannies but for the most part just that lone path.
ADS moves:
Repelling Lasers: A large AoE around the ADS. Does about 2500 damage.
Line Laser: A large Line move that also does about 2500 damage. Unlike the other moves, the ADS will randomly pick one other player that is not the tank as a target. This might mean that it will move away from the melee or the tank, depending on how far away the ADS is from it's intended target.
High Voltage (Silenceable): An area-wide AoE that deals about 1500 damage plus adds a 10s paralysis. An incredibly dangerous move because it works in combination with Repelling Lasers and Line Laser. This move can be prevented, however, as it is Silenceable. You will need to be sure to have at least two bards and/or paladins to do this (or one Monk that really knows what they are doing and takes a hit from Repelling Lasers).
The fight:
The fight starts as normal with the tank/melee dps going in and the ranged/healers stick to the opposite end. Tanks and melees need to avoid Repelling Lasers, while everyone needs to be aware of and avoid the line laser. As the fight progresses different nodes will spawn on the opposite end of the hallway: Offense Node, Defense Node, and/or Maintenance Node. These nodes need to be taken by the Off-Tank and kept away from everyone. I am not sure (as I have never seen) the moves of these nodes. But my experiences tell me that all they do is melee for about 600 to 800. Once the third node starts popping up the ADS needs to be pretty much dead or else the OT may run the risk of getting overwhelmed and then the healers will die shortly afterward. Also the OT needs to keep the nodes away from the ADS as they will apply offense, defense, or healing buffs on the ADS (you will see a tether if this happens).
Now pre-2.2, most groups would struggle to bring down the ADS before the OT gets overwhelmed. It WAS a common strategy to keep running it until the LB gauge filled and then use the filled LB to drop the ADS. Nowadays most people are sufficiently geared that they can drop the ADS without needing to fill the LB gauge.
==Post ADS==
Post ADS is a pretty standard dungeon romp with a lot of trash mobs. The only really major thing that you need to be aware of are the Dark Matter Slug's AoE damage + slow and the Dark Matter Pelican's cone move that petrfies.
There will also be two Dark Matter Golems that do a really strong True Grit (about 3000-4000 damage cone aoe) and Obliterate (about a 2500 to 3000 unavoidable AoE to all party members). Just position them right., make sure the heals keeps the tanks from dying, and keep everybody topped off so the Obliterate doesn't wipe the group. Pretty easy.
There's ALSO a Dark Matter Coeurl that guards a treasure chest in the fight. A lot of groups used to fight it on the off-chance some Allagan gear dropped from it. But since nothing does we now avoid fighting it completely. (I wonder if this will change in 2.2, though...)
==Caduceus==
The boss of T1 is a snake mob called Caudeus. This guy is pretty rough and can drop most people if they aren't careful.
The arena:
The yellow parts of the arena will cause a debuff called bleed that will do about 200 damage per tic and give you heavy. Players need to stand on the blue hexagons in the middle of the arena if they want to avoid this. Also periodically the hexagons will glow blue. If people stay on the arena while they are blue a Dark Matter Slime will be spawned. The slime deals about 300 to 500 damage per melee attack and will explode for about 4000 if the person that spawns it gets too far away. This is an important mechanic, and should not always be avoided by all the party members... more on that later, though.
Caduceus' moves:
It has a cleave attack that does about 2000 to 2500 to everyone in melee range in front of it.
It has a tail swipe attack that deals about 2500 to 3000 to a cone attack behind it. This move can be triggered by walking into range, and since it takes about a second to go off is a pretty decent way to take hate off the tank. This move has about a 10 second cooldown.
It will spit out venom on a random player that's not a tank. This move deals about 1000 damage and will drop a debuff that deals about 200 to 300 damage per tic. Just walk out of it to avoid this.
Periodically in the fight it will get a buff called which increases the damage each attack will do (it is about 1.3 to or 1.5x). This buff can be increased up to 9 times (so 1.3x, 1.6x, 2.0x, 2.3x or 1.5x, 2.0x, 2.5x, etc.) This can cause the cleave move to deal massive damage (I once got hit for about 12,000) and should be avoided.
Near about the same time as he gets a buff parts of the arena will light up as mentioned earlier. If a player gets a dark matter slime to Caduceus, the snake will eat the slime which will remove one of it's buffs. Feeding a slime will also heal Caduceus upwards to about 8 to 10% of it's maximum health, so the slime should be worn down before feeding it to Caduceus which will decrease the amount healed.
Finally at about 66% health Caduceus will split in two. Each Caduceus has about 33% of the original Caduceus' health and has all the same moves (including the buff mechanic), defense, and damage potential as the original snake. Each snake will also keep the buff state the original snake have. If the two Caduceuses get too close they will recombine and then will enrage, which goes straight to the max buff. In addition, if one of the snakes dies before the other snake, the snake that remains will also enrage, going straight to the cap.
Caduceus's Strategy:
Buff as normal. The ranged dps and heals should then move behind the snake and spread out to avoid the venom spit. Once the ranged are in position, the tank will pull, bringing it to the tips of the trapezoid-like shape, on the corner of three of the hexagons. The melee dps and off tank engage as normal, making sure to watch out for it's cleave. One of the melee dps or tank may also choose to trigger the tail swipe move, which will keep off damage for a little bit. This is optional, however.
Once the first buff goes out one of the ranged DPS or off tank needs to move onto a glowing platform to spawn one dark matter slime. The rest of the melee, ranged dps, healer, and main tank needs to move off of the glowing platforms to make sure no more than that one slime spawns. The off tank or ranged dps then whittled down their dark matter slime and feeds it to Caduceus. This could happen two or three times depending on how long it takes to drop Caduceus down to 66%.
You should also keep in mind that two of the glowing spot locations are on the far ends of the arena past a part that will make a person heavy. This could potentially make Caduceus have a buff which isn't removed. This is dangerous because once the boss splits both snakes will have the buff. If this happens you may choose to have two players get slimes, which will remove both applications of the buff.
Once the snake splits the off tank takes the second caduceus to the other side of the arena. The dps then choose one of the snakes to wear down while the off tank and a healer keeps the second caduceus occupied.
IN THEORY you can maintain the slime feeding strategy at this point. This would keep the buff counter down and make tanking the snake much more manageable.
...most people don't do this, however, and choose to simply focus on bringing down one snake close to death and then moving to the second snake. This forgoes the mechanic and makes the entire fight a race to bring both the snakes close to death before either of the tanks falls. Once one snake is down either DPS or Limit Break the second snake and you've finished the fight.
Now, if the tank fails to keep their buffs up or if the healer fails to keep their tank up the only strategy to do at that point is to bring the two snakes together and attempt to kite it. As the biggest damage attack at this point is the cleave, this IS still a possibility but it has now become much more difficult to achieve, especially if the remainder snake has more than 10% health. The tank also needs to keep in mind that if an LB is going to be used they need to stop for 3 to 5 seconds to fire it off. This could be really dangerous however and could potentially kill the tank if they are not careful.Â
After the boss is dropped Turn 1 is over and you can proceed to Turn 2. Hurray! :)