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+--- Thread: Cliques and RP Etiquette (/showthread.php?tid=10229)
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Kage - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 05:33 PM)Val Wrote:That does suck :< I've never had issues with the people who are active here though I have had times before where I ended up afk (or dual-screening) and not seeing i received a tell. That's never happened -while- I was in the middle of RP though @_@(02-22-2015, 04:45 PM)Kage Wrote:(02-22-2015, 04:23 PM)Val Wrote: I think it depends on who you are, and the day. There have been times when I've gone to the Quicksand and emoted for hours to get nothing--especially if I'm on my alt. Val tends to get noticed or interacted with because people know him and he's a catboy.
My Midlanders? I even emoted one bumping into someone else, or spilling his drink on someone, or asking someone else questions--all different days--all ignored.
Honestly, like I said before, it's very very easy to miss someone emoting at you or to you. Did you send them a /tell?
I have, actually! Sometimes they respond, sometimes it continues to be ignored. As Aya said, results may vary. It really just depends on luck and time of day/person.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Gaspard - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 04:59 PM)Presidio Wrote: You say "we can all take steps to avoid it" but the steps being suggested are put entirely on the excluded person. That's what I'm getting at. Someone shows up and says "I have a problem" and a thousand people offer "well have you tried this?"
If the community was as inclusive as it sees itself then it wouldn't be "have you tried this" and would instead be "okay here's how we're going to all help solve this problem."
Instead it's been "this is what you should do" followed by pages of people explaining why the person might've been ignored from their perspective.
None of this helps the person much, it just puts the onus on them to help themself.
I sincerely hope you will not take this personal ; You are almost coming from a 'Victim' type of position at this point. The way you describe it is as if you expect players who are already playing to simply keep adding/including others into their plays on the sole basis that they should be required to do so. Putting yourself out there is your responsibility, having Roleplay is your responsibility. You cannot wait or expect others to create Roleplay for you, or to create scenarios for yourself to include yourself in. Some people do this, including myself, but the large majority often looks to others to start things over and mule when there's no one to do so.Â
That being said, all those you see roleplaying already did something right, they approached eachother beforehand probably, did the OOC bits necessary and therefore are roleplaying. If you personally refuse to do such, or expect them to be as open as to include everyone they see not roleplaying into their own Roleplay, you will sadly remain stuck with no one to play with. From your standpoint this may seem harsh, but it 'is' fact. There's little to no incentive for people to simply 'add others' based on the fact that they are present, silent, and voice nothing. Also, from a Realism standpoint ; Take any type of public location, diner, Club, or such, and tell me what you see. The majority of people go about their business, dine with their friends, or party with their friends, and only if there's a good connection with others this circle expands during that time. However, it's almost never the case that you see every single person that enters a social establishment suddenly group with everyone in a social endevaour where everyone drinks together, talks together, dances together or such. The same applies to RP. It's illogical to expect that, simply because you're in the Quicksand, you will automatically be included in Roleplay. You have to be proactive. You have to take those first steps if you want to play with people that are essentially foreigners to you ICly and OOCly.
I can fully understand if you may feel slighted and/or excluded for the fact that you see so many people playing with eachother, roleplaying, and you being left out. But take a minute to understand how their roleplay came about to be. They, like you, have started with no contacts, no people to play with, and had to 'put themselves out there', Either through OOC motions such as joining a FC, /telling people and making friends/contacts and/or creating forum adds describing the specific Roleplay they sought for. Through that, their contacts grow, the people they know grow, and eventually they have a stable base of people to play with.
Roleplaying is always a pro-active endveaour. You need people that sit down with you, iniitate, and provide scenarios that 'feed rp', so to speak, and enable others to act towards it. If none of this is provided, you have everyone 'waiting', wondering why the get no roleplay.
All that being said. It may seem harsh to you at first, but truly, this is the way things  happen. If you wish to finally experience RP the way you look forward to it, you need to keep positive about it, and always understand that no one owes you anything in regards to attention or Roleplay. You have to grab their attention, see if they wish to roleplay with you.
Atlast but not least, I would also like to mention that there's a distinct difference between a Clique, and a Group. Cliques exclude on the basis that they're 'too cool for noobs', or on the basis that they're 'too edgy to hang with scrubs'.
A RP group therein is a group of players that frequently play with eachother, probably have a plot running for themselves in the background involving their group 'and' have put the necessary work into it to make it happen. To slam them for being social, active, and absorbed by what they helped create is akin to shaming a roleplayer for roleplaying.
I guess, you could say the moral of my post is;
You cannot assume a position of victimization and saying that 'the others are at fault' for not including you, If they have roleplay wherein you have none. They're clearly doing something right, something you're missing. Now you have a thread full of truly helpful input that could, if you took it as such, help you find exactly what you are looking for, yet you deny this as help, infact, you slam it as criticism.
Again. I might've formulated bits of this harshly, but I hope it makes you understand where I'm coming from with this
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Val - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 05:37 PM)Kage Wrote:(02-22-2015, 05:33 PM)Val Wrote:That does suck :< I've never had issues with the people who are active here though I have had times before where I ended up afk (or dual-screening) and not seeing i received a tell. That's never happened -while- I was in the middle of RP though @_@(02-22-2015, 04:45 PM)Kage Wrote:(02-22-2015, 04:23 PM)Val Wrote: I think it depends on who you are, and the day. There have been times when I've gone to the Quicksand and emoted for hours to get nothing--especially if I'm on my alt. Val tends to get noticed or interacted with because people know him and he's a catboy.
My Midlanders? I even emoted one bumping into someone else, or spilling his drink on someone, or asking someone else questions--all different days--all ignored.
Honestly, like I said before, it's very very easy to miss someone emoting at you or to you. Did you send them a /tell?
I have, actually! Sometimes they respond, sometimes it continues to be ignored. As Aya said, results may vary. It really just depends on luck and time of day/person.
Like I said, it really just depends. If I'm on Val, I have ZERO problems getting RP because people know him/me. If I'm on an unnamed, unknown alt? Hardly anyone pays him any attention. I did have a random from my own FC that didn't know who I was come and talk to him, so that was nice! And I had a random fortune teller and, of course, Aya's amazing self RP with him! They were all very enjoyable experiences
 it's just hard to get him involved otherwise, being a sword for hire, when no one pays attention to him when he asks if they have work!
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Kirann - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 05:13 PM)Presidio Wrote: I don't think the veterans here realize how hard it is to get established in FFXIV RP. For example, people suggested joining open RP... Open RP has a waitlist. It will be days before you're even invited.
Some of the events hosted here , that take place within the game encourage people to meet newer people. i suggest trying a few of those out. It is a good way to network and learn other Rpers.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Aya - 02-22-2015
You're confusing the active rpc community you're engaging with here for the overall rp community on Balmung - they overlap but aren't the same
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Tiergan - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 06:53 PM)Aya Wrote: You're confusing the active rpc community you're engaging with here for the overall rp community on Balmung - they overlap but aren't the same
I spent an insanely long time thinking the RPC was were ALL of Balmung's RPers hung out and then someone convinced me to get on Tumblr. That's kind of when I learned it's practically twice as big as I thought it was. :V
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Kage - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 07:01 PM)Tiergan Wrote:I remember looking at the tumblr tag and actually seeing RP posts about "Natalie Mcbeef"(02-22-2015, 06:53 PM)Aya Wrote: You're confusing the active rpc community you're engaging with here for the overall rp community on Balmung - they overlap but aren't the same
I spent an insanely long time thinking the RPC was were ALL of Balmung's RPers hung out and then someone convinced me to get on Tumblr. Â That's kind of when I learned it's practically twice as big as I thought it was. :V
And not recognizing most of the people except for thinking one of them was the incorrect-lore-nazi-onSultansworn
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - sforze - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 05:40 PM)Gaspard Wrote:(02-22-2015, 04:59 PM)Presidio Wrote: You say "we can all take steps to avoid it" but the steps being suggested are put entirely on the excluded person. That's what I'm getting at. Someone shows up and says "I have a problem" and a thousand people offer "well have you tried this?"
If the community was as inclusive as it sees itself then it wouldn't be "have you tried this" and would instead be "okay here's how we're going to all help solve this problem."
Instead it's been "this is what you should do" followed by pages of people explaining why the person might've been ignored from their perspective.
None of this helps the person much, it just puts the onus on them to help themself.
[snip]
I guess, you could say the moral of my post is;
You cannot assume a position of victimization and saying that 'the others are at fault' for not including you, If they have roleplay wherein you have none. They're clearly doing something right, something you're missing. Now you have a thread full of truly helpful input that could, if you took it as such, help you find exactly what you are looking for, yet you deny this as help, infact, you slam it as criticism.
Neither myself nor Presidio are new to RP. I've run successful communities before for other games, which is part of what another here said about 'culture shock' and adapting. If I'm having issues as someone who has done well for themselves before, I can't imagine what completely new RPers are feeling if they're struggling, too. That should be a red flag, not a cue to yell 'bootstrap it harder, everyone else is doing it right and you're wrong'. I guess that's the part of your post that really stands out to me in a very, very negative way.
Boiling it down to "just take the advice and you'll get what you want" and "stop being a victim" isn't just ignorant of the conversation that's been happening, it's frankly incorrect based on the experience I've written about in this thread, as well as being kind of rude/dismissive, even if you don't intend it to be. I've taken much of the advice that's been offered and I still came in to make this post to hopefully start a conversation on why it's still happening and try to target any possibilities of doing better. By nature, that shows that your own advice is moot.
I really hope you reconsider what you're saying.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Cato - 02-22-2015
I'm not sure why people are trying to make it seem like sforze is making himself out to be a victim. I'm certainly not getting that vibe from any of his posts.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Alothia - 02-22-2015
I'm going to have to agree. He has not come off as a victim at all in this. Instead, the OP is simply throwing his story out there and seeing if he's the only one feeling this.
As someone who does go out of their way to talk to people in the Quicksand, I can 100% tell you that his experiences are not limited to him. I don't think that this thread was unreasonable, and I think that people who are pushing his post off as something that he just isn't doing correctly or whatnot are ignoring the problem.
There ARE people who RP who deliberately ignore other RPers. Is it everyone, no. But is it a noticeable portion, sure. Â I could tell you exactly who I got the cold shoulder from, on more than one occasion, but that doesn't help the situation either. I think threads like this are simply a call to action. We should be looking at this and thinking, "Damn, what can I do to help make sure this doesn't happen anymore," not looking at the OP and saying, "You're doing it wrong."
That's exactly why people leave communities.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Tiergan - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 10:39 PM)Alothia Wrote: There ARE people who RP who deliberately ignore other RPers. Is it everyone, no. But is it a noticeable portion, sure. Â I could tell you exactly who I got the cold shoulder from, on more than one occasion, but that doesn't help the situation either. I think threads like this are simply a call to action. We should be looking at this and thinking, "Damn, what can I do to help make sure this doesn't happen anymore," not looking at the OP and saying, "You're doing it wrong."
That's exactly why people leave communities.
^^^^^^^^ This.
To be honest, I was kind of bummed out seeing how many new folks are having such a hard time getting RP rolling. While it's great that we're offering bits of advice here, I feel like we should also be thinking about how we can do more to help others out. We're not obligated to take in every single person that comes our way into our RP -- but that also doesn't mean we shouldn't adjust our behavior a little to help others find and get RP in our community.
If it means just RPing in the Quicksand a little each week, or trying to greet one new person that you've never met before every once in a while -- what could it hurt?
I'm currently slammed by work for the next four weeks, so it's hard for me to even manage to get RP for myself beyond a couple of hours on the weekends, but once I have sweet, sweet freedom, I would be down for collaborating with others on creating icebreakers or ways for others to enter the fold with less trouble.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Gaspard - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 10:10 PM)sforze Wrote:(02-22-2015, 05:40 PM)Gaspard Wrote:(02-22-2015, 04:59 PM)Presidio Wrote: You say "we can all take steps to avoid it" but the steps being suggested are put entirely on the excluded person. That's what I'm getting at. Someone shows up and says "I have a problem" and a thousand people offer "well have you tried this?"
If the community was as inclusive as it sees itself then it wouldn't be "have you tried this" and would instead be "okay here's how we're going to all help solve this problem."
Instead it's been "this is what you should do" followed by pages of people explaining why the person might've been ignored from their perspective.
None of this helps the person much, it just puts the onus on them to help themself.
[snip]
I guess, you could say the moral of my post is;
You cannot assume a position of victimization and saying that 'the others are at fault' for not including you, If they have roleplay wherein you have none. They're clearly doing something right, something you're missing. Now you have a thread full of truly helpful input that could, if you took it as such, help you find exactly what you are looking for, yet you deny this as help, infact, you slam it as criticism.
Neither myself nor Presidio are new to RP. I've run successful communities before for other games, which is part of what another here said about 'culture shock' and adapting. If I'm having issues as someone who has done well for themselves before, I can't imagine what completely new RPers are feeling if they're struggling, too. That should be a red flag, not a cue to yell 'bootstrap it harder, everyone else is doing it right and you're wrong'. I guess that's the part of your post that really stands out to me in a very, very negative way.
Boiling it down to "just take the advice and you'll get what you want" and "stop being a victim" isn't just ignorant of the conversation that's been happening, it's frankly incorrect based on the experience I've written about in this thread, as well as being kind of rude/dismissive, even if you don't intend it to be. I've taken much of the advice that's been offered and I still came in to make this post to hopefully start a conversation on why it's still happening and try to target any possibilities of doing better. By nature, that shows that your own advice is moot.
I really hope you reconsider what you're saying.
I wouldn't truly call it ignorant on my behalf, at most I may've missinterpreted your words. To me, it sounded akin to a refusal to take said advice, based on the sense that it puts the 'onus' as if you've reffered to it on the struggling person, akin to as if one was to be blamed for such predicament. (Which 'is' a general theme recurring in this topic. That Roleplayers that are in a Roleplay 'must' include others least the risk appearing as jerks, even if the RP, scenery, or the likes don't fit it). Moreso, my post was infact a generalized reply to those that took such stance, not to you specifically posing as a victim. Atleast that what it was meant for. So yes, in that regard, I may've indeed worded it wrong. And a good part of said points are invalid if indeed you did take said suggestions into consideration and tried them, to no avail.
However, IF that is true, then I'm truly at a loss how such thing is possible actually. Following what others wrote here as suggestions, and doing what I do (and described in my post), I find myself currently drowning in roleplay. So perhaps I simply can't see / don't see this struggle, or don't understand how it can be as dire as described.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - IvikBlack - 02-22-2015
However, IF that is true, then I'm truly at a loss how such thing is possible actually. Following what others wrote here as suggestions, and doing what I do (and described in my post), I find myself currently drowning in roleplay. So perhaps I simply can't see / don't see this struggle, or don't understand how it can be as dire as described.
The answer to this thing you cannot fathom is in the post title. You are part of a clique that you benefit from. The people who have tried the same thing as you have aren't, and therefore haven't. You're the leader of an FC, aren't you? I mean, c'mon... You can't possibly mean what you wrote there literally. You're a smart guy, you can figure it out.
As for how you were able to get into that clique? I bet the community was once a lot more welcoming before people got established and set in their ways. Aya mentioned earlier how a lot of people have retreated to their FC Housing for RP. That's a microcosm of changing attitudes towards inclusivity, I wager.
And it doesn't matter how hard you try to be included if people simply ignore what you write.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Gaspard - 02-22-2015
Calling a FC a clique is a bit underhanded in my opinion, given that we're not very exclusive and do welcome any interest with open arms.Â
As for I 'can't mean it, I do entirely mean it. This FC here is something that I've created throughout the span of a week (Which is roughly the period of time since I returned) Nigh everyone except for two people are entirely fresh, new people to me that I've met through initiating OOC contact and so on. Infact, if at all, me having made this FC / Linkshell and RP group 'exactly' during this time is the complete anti-thesis to the point raised in this topic ; that it's hard to find RP here. Infact, I am quite sure I would even have far more Roleplay if I simply opted to choose one of the bigger RP-FC's currently out there recruiting. And there are plenty.
RE: Cliques and RP Etiquette - Alothia - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 10:50 PM)Tiergan Wrote:(02-22-2015, 10:39 PM)Alothia Wrote: There ARE people who RP who deliberately ignore other RPers. Is it everyone, no. But is it a noticeable portion, sure. Â I could tell you exactly who I got the cold shoulder from, on more than one occasion, but that doesn't help the situation either. I think threads like this are simply a call to action. We should be looking at this and thinking, "Damn, what can I do to help make sure this doesn't happen anymore," not looking at the OP and saying, "You're doing it wrong."
That's exactly why people leave communities.
^^^^^^^^ This.
To be honest, I was kind of bummed out seeing how many new folks are having such a hard time getting RP rolling. Â While it's great that we're offering bits of advice here, I feel like we should also be thinking about how we can do more to help others out. Â We're not obligated to take in every single person that comes our way into our RP -- but that also doesn't mean we shouldn't adjust our behavior a little to help others find and get RP in our community. Â
If it means just RPing in the Quicksand a little each week, or trying to greet one new person that you've never met before every once in a while -- what could it hurt?
I'm currently slammed by work for the next four weeks, so it's hard for me to even manage to get RP for myself beyond a couple of hours on the weekends, but once I have sweet, sweet freedom, I would be down for collaborating with others on creating icebreakers or ways for others to enter the fold with less trouble.
Thank you. As a community we should take a look at our cumulative behavior and see what we can do to fix it. It doesn't mean that we have to only do that. Sure, we all have our stories that we want to do with our friends. But including one more person here and there isn't going to kill anyone.
And just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean it's not there. It means you're privileged. Hells, during 1.0, I was one of those people. Now, I'm finding it a little difficult to find my bearings sometimes, even though I know quite a few people. If you've got free time, make a point of trying to RP with someone you don't know. That's all this is asking.