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+--- Thread: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? (/showthread.php?tid=12824)
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Sounsyy - 08-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 10:04 AM)Gegenji Wrote:(08-06-2015, 09:56 AM)Tumensuns Wrote: I hope those voidsent knights aren't openly stating their knights of the void because catastrophic events were caused by overuse of black magic that pulled from the void, even if the common folk don't know much about that anymore since years have passed, anyone with an inkling of history education or magical education would know, and most likely wouldn't sit idly.
It's not even that. Void = Voidsent = Bad is a general knowledge chain for even most folks. Even normal soldiers are understandably upset if someone brings a Voidsent into a fight.
Not to mention illegal. Punishable by life in prison in Ul'dah, death in Gridania. Likely similarly steep sentences in Limsa Lominsa and Ishgard.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - -no longer matters- - 08-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 10:04 AM)Gegenji Wrote:Honestly I think a lot of everyday citizens would view even an Abyss/Darkside (Emotions based) Dark Knight  as some connection to the void until educated otherwise, same with an adventurer that has no previous dealings or experience with Dark Knights.(08-06-2015, 09:56 AM)Tumensuns Wrote: I hope those voidsent knights aren't openly stating their knights of the void because catastrophic events were caused by overuse of black magic that pulled from the void, even if the common folk don't know much about that anymore since years have passed, anyone with an inkling of history education or magical education would know, and most likely wouldn't sit idly.
It's not even that. Void = Voidsent = Bad is a general knowledge chain for even most folks. Even normal soldiers are understandably upset if someone brings a Voidsent into a fight.
A good example of this is when I joined The Onyx Cross (Void/witchhunters) War made sure to reveal what her "power set" was and explain it's origination source, so they wouldn't mistake it and others like her as Voidsent.
That's just something I think others should keep in mind. That until you have dealings you generally wouldn't know they're not of the void. That's one of the reasons why Dark Knights are frowned upon.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Tumensuns - 08-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 10:04 AM)Gegenji Wrote:The common folk not knowing much about part was about the catastrophic events that were brought upon the magic, not the magic itself.(08-06-2015, 09:56 AM)Tumensuns Wrote: I hope those voidsent knights aren't openly stating their knights of the void because catastrophic events were caused by overuse of black magic that pulled from the void, even if the common folk don't know much about that anymore since years have passed, anyone with an inkling of history education or magical education would know, and most likely wouldn't sit idly.
It's not even that. Void = Voidsent = Bad is a general knowledge chain for even most folks. Even normal soldiers are understandably upset if someone brings a Voidsent into a fight.
Generally a common man would be disturbed by it, for simply what it is, but the more learned types will more than likely be further disturbed because they know the consequences, results, and outcomes of doing anything with a voidsent.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Draco Nobis - 08-12-2015
(08-06-2015, 10:22 AM)War Siren Wrote:For some reason, it's difficult to find people that really treat it that way in RP. At least in the RP I've found. When Draco revealed himself to be a Dark Knight somewhere before 2.5, the initial reaction was a mix of 'Cool story bro' and fear. So he hid it away. In HW, he tends to hide it and only use it when he absolutely has to, just because the Ishgardians would see it as heresy. Being a Duskwight Ishgardian already gives him a little flak from the people, and members of the Inquisition and Temple Knights are aware of his abilities. He was even tried for it, but won in Trial by Combat to keep himself from getting axed.(08-06-2015, 10:04 AM)Gegenji Wrote:Honestly I think a lot of everyday citizens would view even an Abyss/Darkside (Emotions based) Dark Knight  as some connection to the void until educated otherwise, same with an adventurer that has no previous dealings or experience with Dark Knights.(08-06-2015, 09:56 AM)Tumensuns Wrote: I hope those voidsent knights aren't openly stating their knights of the void because catastrophic events were caused by overuse of black magic that pulled from the void, even if the common folk don't know much about that anymore since years have passed, anyone with an inkling of history education or magical education would know, and most likely wouldn't sit idly.
It's not even that. Void = Voidsent = Bad is a general knowledge chain for even most folks. Even normal soldiers are understandably upset if someone brings a Voidsent into a fight.
A good example of this is when I joined The Onyx Cross (Void/witchhunters) War made sure to reveal what her "power set" was and explain it's origination source, so they wouldn't mistake it and others like her as Voidsent.
That's just something I think others should keep in mind. That until you have dealings you generally wouldn't know they're not of the void. That's one of the reasons why Dark Knights are frowned upon.
Now, most of the people that know Draco, know his actions as a valiant and respectable Knight. Because aside from being a Dark Knight by classification, he's an ACTUAL Knight too. And has been all his life. So it's gotten to the point where they see his good side, and don't even consider his Darkness to be dangerous. And sometimes when he's fighting for someone, or rescuing someone, he lets the power out to ensure victory. So he demonstrates first hand that the Darkside, or Darkness as he calls it, can be a force for good. And he isn't as crude and brutal as Lore DRK's. He rarely aims to kill, so they can't even say the Darkside drives him into a murderous state. His goal is to have people see the good in the darkness, and tries to tell and show people that it's not evil void magicks.
So in RP, I think DRK's have a good opportunity to just show people the light in the darkness, in a manner of speaking. Granted, not ever DRK should try to be a chivalrous and good knight if they don't want to. But I think even a stubborn person like Sid would try to convince people that DRK's aren't inherently evil, because of the power they wield. Even if he only did it to keep his little elf child safe.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - ImmoralAria - 08-14-2015
So I'm a bit late to the party here. And I'm going to open this up by saying that I am not a person that RP's as a DRK. I simply am a lore enthusiast and like to dig into whatever I can. I've been leveling DRK OOCly for raid flexibility purposes, and have been eating up all the lore I've been able to get my grubby hands on.
While there is not really enough one way or the other, unless the level 60 quest shines some beacon of light. Which I'm going to assume it does not because there's still this big humdrum over it. We can draw a few conclusions. Emotions, are not the source of a Dark Knights power. The wording in how things were stated in the 58 Quest made it sound more like Emotions are the means to accessing the powers, not that the emotions themselves were the power. This distinction is pretty important I feel. But it also leaves us far from learning the true nature of the Abyss. So rather than a source, Emotions would be the kindling, or the means by which you access it.
I, personally am of the belief that this power comes from the void - due to how it's been presented, the colors the skill abilities use, and the general themes it plays with. That's not to say that all of you should stop doing what you're doing and adjust to my beliefs. It's simply that this is the most plausible explanation that I believe we've got. The way that people talk about the DRK's job in the story makes me feel like there's certainly something to my theory. Sidguru talks early on how once you become a DRK and come in contact with the Abyss, you're never quite whole again. Which is likely referencing the split in your psyche, that creates your super powered evil side. However, in the level 50 job quest, it also seems to me that your dark side is doing more than just appearing to you. I believe it was implied that your darkside was actually animating Fray's remains until it split from them revealing itself giving us the Fight Club-esque twist we got. This in particular felt very...voidy to me.
In the end, RP as you see fit. But for better or worse the true nature of the Abyss still eludes us in definite detail. As with everything that is deliciously gray, we get to draw our own conclusions. I'd just like to remind people that your way of doing things may not be the correct one, and neither may my beliefs. But currently this conversation seemed to lack a good counter argument so I decided to throw my hat into the ring.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Aduu Avagnar - 08-15-2015
The reason I tend to shy away from voidpowered goodness is that so far there havr been no examples of anything good coming from it. Nor anyone wielding it coming out the other end as a corrupted servant of its denizens.
Until I see that categorically stated im not inclined to believe that we would get a job that can bend it to their will and still remain a 'good guy'.
If they were manipulating the void, I believe they would be hunted for more than just their vigilante justice, and more heard of.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - S'imba - 08-16-2015
(08-15-2015, 05:05 AM)Nako Wrote: The reason I tend to shy away from voidpowered goodness is that so far there havr been no examples of anything good coming from it. Nor anyone wielding it coming out the other end as a corrupted servant of its denizens.
Until I see that categorically stated im not inclined to believe that we would get a job that can bend it to their will and still remain a 'good guy'.
If they were manipulating the void, I believe they would be hunted for more than just their vigilante justice, and more heard of.
That's kind of my thinking, it seems to go against the mission statement of a WoL to be using real darkness in really any form. My head canon on it is that the association with darkness itself was more labeled by those trying to demonize the Dark Knights. So eventually that would become so engrained in society that a lot of what a Dark Knight really is was lost. With very few people knowing the truth about it. Even among Dark Knights themselves.
To me the magic of the dark knights is just like all the other classes. Simple aether, channeled through a different method of casting it. Like monks give it form through chakra, thaumaturges use bone staffs to channel it, arcanists use the enchanted ink, and ninjas use their mudras. Dark knights are the same way, shape the aether by using by using their emotions and releasing it in a so called attack of darkness. Though I guess technically darkness given form would be aether too.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - ImmoralAria - 08-17-2015
See, where you all think it would go against what the WoL stands for, I would have to disagree on that point. Nor would I agree that it wouldn't be fitting for the Dark Knight to draw upon the void. The Dark Knight is presented as a class that is very clearly playing with anti-hero themes. And while your character is a beacon of hope for Eorzea, you are ultimately someone that achieves what needs to be done, despite the odds and despite the means. Think about the beast-men we've killed in our pursuits of killing their gods, the many people that we've ruined their lives indirectly (Eda, anyone?). We pursue our brand of justice, and try to accomplish our goals over all else.
To draw upon the void would fit well with the anti-hero theme completely. Remember, unlike the other jobs, we don't outright choose to become one at first. We interact with the soul stone of a dead member. We then choose to embrace the darkness and walk down that path with "Fray" as our guide. Ultimately we're all just projecting our wants and our needs unto this unknown element of the abyss. Does it stand for the darkness in all men? Or does it refer to a physical plane? We've all seen (well, assuming anyways) That there is real power that can be brought from the void in the Crystal Tower storyline. However in that, we see that Xande sacrificed clones and such as offerings in a covenant for power. However, we're not talking about making a covenant with a specific being. We're talking about the power to bleed the energy from a plane. Namely the void. There's already a precedent for this within the FFXIV world. Albeit, they don't drain power from the void.
The Dark Magic of Black Mages, is dangerous and mostly outlawed not because of what it's practitioners have done. (Though that no doubt played a significant role in the imprisonment of the ones we interact with.) Black Magic, in such that comes from the Black Mage specialization drains the Aether of the land around you. It is a purely destructive force. That would be why it's represented by it's near limitless power and why it's so dangerous. Use too much and you can literally kill the planet.
What if the power of the soul stone allows you to drain the power from the void in a similar fashion? That your emotions allow you to pull power from another plane and manifest it here, in the material realm. If the power did indeed come from the void, that would be my guess on how it works. However, on the flip-side, if the power is drawn from the area around you - I would argue that this isn't any better, and would still earn you a black mark in a great many places. I cannot see for instance the conjurer's guild looking kindly upon the use of the Dark Arts of a Dark Knight being used within the confines of the Twelveswood.
They have the advantage of being relatively obscure, and their actual powers either being misunderstood, or misrepresented by the populace. There isn't a guild in Ishgard where people can learn about them in great detail. And as such, neither can we. We can only apply our conjecture upon the limited resources that we're allowed and shown. The only people that seem to really understand how and where aether is coming from, is the Sharlyan Scholars within the Scions of the Seventh dawn. They're the only ones really equipped with the tools to judge things accurately. And unless we get some comments from an adequately equipped NPC, or someone else that is a Dark Knight outright tells us....I don't see a real end to this argument. There is no right answer right now.
As much as I'd love to be able to copy and paste an answer as to where their powers come from by a developer or something, we don't have that. So till that point, the true nature of the Abyss eludes us. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that your way of doing it is the only way, and remember - that in-world there aren't many ways to actually tell something is void energy short of opening up a void portal, or being the cause of it in the first place, or if voidsent are pouring out, et cetra. So to the layman, void energy would just be dark energy. The Dark Knights themselves aren't exactly forthcoming with information either, so it's not like they would be fighting temple knights and be like "B-T-W, I'm using Void energy ^_^." And I uh, don't think they have many peaceful encounters in general. We still don't even really know how many there are, let alone how they're organized, beyond a seeming Master-Student relationship we've been shown...
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Vale - 08-21-2015
My character is a DRK, but IC he's not a DRK. He'll laugh at you if you try and call him one too. Used to be a mercenary, but no longer. He has no special powers, has nothing to do with the void, and hates magic.Â
When I created him I just wanted the sword and the DRK look. Especially the i110 pvp armor, as I tied that into his back story. There's so many people basically running the same type of character already that I knew it would be a bad idea to RP him as an actual DRK. Aside from that, there's the whole negative stigma hanging over that type of character as well.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Fox - 08-21-2015
(08-21-2015, 02:10 AM)Vale Wrote: There's so many people basically running the same type of character already that I knew it would be a bad idea to RP him as an actual DRK.
You can play a DRK without it being the same thing over and over again. I mean I can argue there are a lot of mercenaries out there with big two handed swords by that argument. Originality isn't something that really exists, as it were. There's always some inspiration drawn from something.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Desitjant - 08-25-2015
I'm currently envisioning my Dark Knight as... well meaning but emotionally volatile, let's say. So you won't be the ONLY one.
Maybe we could have an RP event where all the angsty Dark Knights meet up at a tavern, brood over drinks, and then trash the place in an outburst of dark fury?
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Cynel1 - 08-25-2015
(08-25-2015, 09:09 PM)Desitjant Wrote: I'm currently envisioning my Dark Knight as... well meaning but emotionally volatile, let's say. So you won't be the ONLY one.that would be a good idea.
Maybe we could have an RP event where all the angsty Dark Knights meet up at a tavern, brood over drinks, and then trash the place in an outburst of dark fury?
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Aaron - 08-26-2015
(08-21-2015, 02:22 AM)Foxberry Wrote:Think he's referring to when it falls into the category of "Everyones a DRK IC so it doesn't feel as unique." Anymore.Â(08-21-2015, 02:10 AM)Vale Wrote: There's so many people basically running the same type of character already that I knew it would be a bad idea to RP him as an actual DRK.
You can play a DRK without it being the same thing over and over again. I mean I can argue there are a lot of mercenaries out there with big two handed swords by that argument. Originality isn't something that really exists, as it were. There's always some inspiration drawn from something.
Classes are supposed to identify a big chunk of a character, yet if everyone and their mom is said class it makes sense to forget the idea because it's now "mainstream"
It's like if everyone on the planet suddenly got rich and famous. Now you're just like everyone else again.Â
Not sure if im explaining myself right or even good. Im not bashing IC DRK . Im just saying I can understand how he feels. Hell I almost stopped playing a NIN as a raid class because everyone was a NIN too. Then I got over it.
I dunno im just rambling now.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Rufus Wightman - 09-21-2015
DRK RP is a pretty sharp sword to fall upon right now, to be honest. Even though HW launched months ago, I've little-to-no doubt that people are still discovering the class, going through the quests, maybe not even reading them, who knows?
Anyway, with people still in the dark, pun intended, about the lore of the job, it's unsurprising to see different takes on the way it's presented. The main gripe I have with more DRK RPers is the choice to be super edgy and as dank as possible. It's really uninteresting, and doesn't do much to make a character approachable. I don't know much about 'voidsent' DRKs, but... sounds a bit sketchy. I have the utmost respect for those who treat the DRK as it is presented within the story, because let's be fair, the DRK quests are fantastic. They give you just about anything you could need to understand the Dark Knight, and how they work.
I RP DRK in the way it is presented in the story, too. Emotion-driven, but not overly cynical. Controversial, I know. But what can I say? If the WoL can be a goodie-two shoes while being a DRK, my character can at least not be as dour-faced as a 90 year old nun.
RE: [Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One? - Steel Wolf - 09-21-2015
Here's my spin.
When it was revealed that Fray was your character's Darkside made manifest, that was pretty much all I needed to know about where the DRK draws its power from--essentially from your more impassioned and aggressive tendencies. An Aetherial Sith, but with powers levied against corruption as opposed to being fed by it.
The way Steel grasps this fount of power is a deeper level of her Inner Beast. As she was a Warrior longer than she was a Dark Knight, she has just begun to break the surface of what sort of things her Inner Beast can do, moving from a motivating force to an aetheric one. Since both concepts of the Inner Beast and the Darkside paralleled in my opinion, it was an easy transition.
Think of it where Warrior is Steel using Kaio-Ken and Dark Knight is Steel at SSJ1, so to speak. At least conceptually--she doesn't actually undergo a physical transformation, but does reach a new level of personal power and ability. Since she doesn't weave aether normally, this works for her concept. Additionally, her training is done "off-screen" until such time as she finds someone wanting to RP tutelage, so she's reaching new prowess, but gradually so. Even if it's only in head canon.
Despite what the Darkside is and where it comes from, it's not a force that spurs her mood. It's like tapping in to a desire or memory and using that as a weapon when needed. She's still the tough, smirking, huggy, smart-mouthed Roe badass she's always been. Just now slowly understanding a form of aetheric manipulation.